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I am giving this speech on e-voting tonight

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 01:26 PM
Original message
I am giving this speech on e-voting tonight
Section two of the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution reads as follows: "When the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States is denied to any inhabitant of such state, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation shall therein be reduced in the proportion which the number of such citizens shall bear to the whole number of citizens." In other words, if a state can't manage to run a fair election, that state loses Senators and Congresspeople. I have this dream of sending Senators DeWine and Voinovich of Ohio, along with Congressman Ralph Regula of Ohio, out of Washington in a blizzard of shame and disgrace. It's a dream, but a good one.

You've heard from Jonathan Simon about what has been happening over the last several weeks since the election. By now you've also heard the stories: Nationally, there were more than 1,100 incidents of electronic voting machine malfunctions. In Broward County, Florida, election workers were shocked to discover that their shiny new machines were counting backwards. "Tallies should go up as more votes are counted," according to the news story. "That's simple math. But in some races, the numbers had gone down. Officials found the software used in Broward can handle only 32,000 votes per precinct. After that, the system starts counting backward."

In Franklin County, Ohio, voting machines gave Bush 3,893 extra votes in one precinct alone. "Franklin County's unofficial results gave Bush 4,258 votes to Democratic challenger John Kerry's 260 votes in Precinct 1B," according to the news story. "Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct. Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, said Bush received 365 votes there. The other 13 voters who cast ballots either voted for other candidates or did not vote for president."

In Craven County, North Carolina, a software error on the electronic voting machines awarded Bush 11,283 extra votes. "The Elections Systems and Software equipment," according to the news story, "had downloaded voting information from nine of the county's 26 precincts and as the absentee ballots were added, the precinct totals were added a second time. An override, like those occurring when one attempts to save a computer file that already exists, is supposed to prevent double counting, but did not function correctly."

In Carteret County, North Carolina, "More than 4,500 votes may be lost," according to the news story, "because officials believed a computer that stored ballots electronically could hold more data than it did. Local officials said UniLect Corp., the maker of the county's electronic voting system, told them that each storage unit could handle 10,500 votes, but the limit was actually 3,005 votes. Officials said 3,005 early votes were stored, but 4,530 were lost."

In LaPorte County, Indiana, a Democratic stronghold, the electronic voting machines decided that each precinct only had 300 voters. "At about 7 p.m. Tuesday," according to the news story, "it was noticed that the first two or three printouts from individual precinct reports all listed an identical number of voters. Each precinct was listed as having 300 registered voters. That means the total number of voters for the county would be 22,200, although there are actually more than 79,000 registered voters."

In Sarpy County, Nebraska, the electronic touch screen machines got generous. "As many as 10,000 extra votes," according to the news story, "have been tallied and candidates are still waiting for corrected totals. Johnny Boykin lost his bid to be on the Papillion City Council. The difference between victory and defeat in the race was 127 votes. Boykin says, 'When I went in to work the next day and saw that 3,342 people had shown up to vote in our ward, I thought something's not right.' He's right. There are not even 3,000 people registered to vote in his ward. For some reason, some votes were counted twice."

Stories like this have been popping up in many of the states that put these touch-screen voting machines to use. Beyond these reports are the folks who attempted to vote for one candidate and saw the machine give their vote to the other candidate. Sometimes, the flawed machines were taken off-line, and sometimes they were not. As for the reports I just described, the mistakes were caught and corrected. How many mistakes made by these machines were not caught, were not corrected, and have now become part of the record?

The flaws within these machines are well documented. Professors and researchers from Johns Hopkins University performed a detailed analysis of these electronic voting machines in May of 2004. In their results, the Johns Hopkins researchers stated, "This voting system is far below even the most minimal security standards applicable in other contexts. We identify several problems including unauthorized privilege escalation, incorrect use of cryptography, vulnerabilities to network threats, and poor software development processes. We show that voters, without any insider privileges, can cast unlimited votes without being detected by any mechanisms within the voting terminal software."

"Furthermore," they continued, "we show that even the most serious of our outsider attacks could have been discovered and executed without access to the source code. In the face of such attacks, the usual worries about insider threats are not the only concerns; outsiders can do the damage. That said, we demonstrate that the insider threat is also quite considerable, showing that not only can an insider, such as a poll worker, modify the votes, but that insiders can also violate voter privacy and match votes with the voters who cast them. We conclude that this voting system is unsuitable for use in a general election."

Many of these machines do not provide the voter with a paper ballot that verifies their vote. So if an error - or purposefully inserted malicious code - in the untested machine causes their vote to go for the other guy, they have no way to verify that it happened. The lack of a paper ballot also means the end of recounts as we have known them; now, on these new machines, a recount amounts to pushing a button on the machine and getting a number in return, but without those paper ballots to do a comparison, there is no way to verify the validity of that count. The paper ballot aspect isn't nearly the worst part. The paper ballots are only useful in a recount situation. If the margin of victory or defeat described by these machines is large enough, there won't be a recount in most states.

The worst part is the fact that all the votes collected by these machines are sent via modem to a central tabulating computer which counts the votes on Windows software. This means, essentially, that any gomer with access to the central tabulation machine who knows how to work a spreadsheet program and can fiddle around in Explorer can go into this central computer and make wholesale changes to election totals without anyone being the wiser. Bev Harris, who has been working tirelessly since the passage of the Help America Vote Act to inform people of the dangers present in this new process, got a chance to demonstrate how easy it is to steal an election on that central tabulation computer while a guest on the CNBC program 'Topic A With Tina Brown.' Ms. Brown was off that night, and the guest host was none other than Governor Howard Dean.

Thanks to Governor Dean and Ms. Harris, anyone watching CNBC that night got to see just how easy it is to steal an election because of these new machines and the flawed processes they use. "In a voting system," Harris said on the show, "you have all the different voting machines at all the different polling places, sometimes, as in a county like mine, there's a thousand polling places in a single county. All those machines feed into the one machine so it can add up all the votes. So, of course, if you were going to do something you shouldn't to a voting machine, would it be more convenient to do it to each of the 4000 machines, or just come in here and deal with all of them at once? What surprises people is that the central tabulator is just a PC, like what you and I use. It's just a regular computer."

Harris then proceeded to open a laptop computer that had on it the software used to tabulate the votes by one of the aforementioned central processors. Harris had Dean close the Diebold GEMS tabulation software, go back to the normal Windows PC desktop, click on the 'My Computer' icon, choose 'Local Disk C:,' open the folder titled GEMS, and open the sub-folder 'LocalDB' which, Harris noted, 'stands for local database, that's where they keep the votes.' Harris then had Dean double-click on a file in that folder titled Central Tabulator Votes,' which caused the PC to open the vote count in a database program like Excel. 'Let's just flip those,' Harris said, as Dean cut and pasted the numbers from one cell into the other. Harris sat up and said, 'We just edited an election, and it took us 90 seconds.'

It goes without saying, and is the core of the argument, that any system which makes it this easy to steal or corrupt an election has no business being anywhere near the voters on election day. Period.

The counter-argument states that people with nefarious intent, people with a partisan stake in the outcome of an election, would have to have access to the central tabulation computers in order to do harm to the process. Keep the partisans away from the process, and everything will work out fine. Surely no partisan political types were near these machines on Tuesday night when the votes were counted, right? One of the main manufacturers of these electronic touch-screen voting machines is Diebold, Inc. Millions of voters across the country used their machines to cast their ballot on November 2nd.

According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Diebold gave $100,000 to the Republican National Committee in 2000, along with additional contributions between 2001 and 2002 which totaled $95,000. Of the four companies competing for the contracts to manufacture these voting machines, only Diebold contributed large sums to any political party. The CEO of Diebold is a man named Walden O'Dell. O'Dell was very much on board with the Bush campaign, having said publicly in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year." So much for keeping the partisans at arm's length.

I could go on and on in this vein, but as a former teacher, I am a big believer in visual aids. I hold in my hand here a Diebold corporate document from March of 2003. It lists all the counties in all the states where their electronic touchscreen voting machines were put to use. The document is 28 pages long, and lists counties in 37 states. This is what we are up against. Thanks to the Help America Vote Act, this document will get longer and longer with each successive election.

I'm supposed to stand up here and talk about what we can do about it. I'll ignore, for the moment, the fact that we are forced to fight a political war on twenty fronts right now. I'll ignore the fact that the media still sucks, that we have no empowered allies in any of the three branches of government, that our new Attorney General will probably get confirmed despite the fact that he made a number of documented legal arguments claiming that the torture, murder and rape of prisoners at Abu Ghraib wasn't really torture, that the supreme court will soon be packed with Scalia clones, and that our illegal war in Iraq continues to claim life after life after life - 1,221 American soldiers are dead in Iraq as of today, 100 in the month of November.

I'll ignore all of that, and instead stand here and talk about money. Money money money. If you want to attack the problems surrounding these electronic voting machines, you had better be prepared to dig deep, because no attack will amount to a bucket of warm spit without money. In today's political world, nothing happens without money, and money makes all the difference. I'll give you one example. We've had all these reports of voting irregularities, but nothing has seemed to take root in the public or media consciousness. Is it a conspiracy? No.

As ominous as these reports have been, they have been brushed off because George W. Bush managed to nail down a three million vote advantage in the popular vote. Can these machines account for all that? No. He got that three million vote advantage because the Kerry campaign and the DNC did not spend any money in the south and midwest to boost voter turnout. Had the campaign spent that money and managed to get 40-45% of the popular vote in the south and midwest, that three million popular vote margin would have been erased, and the issues surrounding these machines would suddenly be all the more pressing. My father is chairman of the Alabama Democratic Party, and when he described this to me, described how neither the national party nor the Kerry campaign spent any of their cash to boost that popular vote turnout, I could hear his teeth grinding through the phone. Money money money.

We have a choice to make as a party. Two roads diverge in this electoral wood. The first road leads to an attempt to chew into the GOP base in the South and Midwest while having no power in any of the three branches of the national government. This will, in my opinion, cut our ability to defend the states we hold (PA, WI and MN were way too close this time), and will not yield much success in converting enough people to haul in Electoral College votes from those regions we have lost. The act of attempting to chew into that Southern base will require the Party to take a hard right turn, not only casting off progressives, but also shattering formerly dependable voter blocs, specifically women. In order to make a dent in a lot of Red states, the Party will have to distance itself from its traditionally stout defense of a woman's right to choose, and women voters will be most affected by this. The list of negatives goes on and on. ...Or...

Concentrate our resources on four fronts: 1) Hold what we got - New England, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, DC, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Oregon, Washington, California and Hawaii; 2) Go hard after states we have a good chance of swinging - Missouri, Arkansas, New Mexico; 3) Go absolutely bananas to get Ohio, and pretend Florida does not exist. All sincere apologies to my Floridian brothers and sisters, but as long as Jeb and Diebold run things down there, it is impossible to justify spending vital resources to make it go blue again - one does not gamble at a table that is known to be crooked - and the money freed up will greatly assist the other items on this list. From the county committees to the state party to the DNC, go after Ohio from soup to nuts; 4) Do not ignore the South and Midwest completely, by any means. Spend the Florida money there to get people out to vote, aim for that 40-45% target, in order to bolster the popular vote total and avoid a 'mandate' debate.

The states we got in 2004 + some or at least one of the states we can swing + Ohio = victory. I've checked the EC math. And then we begin the attempt to chew into the GOP base in the South and Midwest, with the Executive branch in our control. Doing this will allow the party to avoid a hard right turn, to avoid stuffing things like the choice issue into a back room, and to keep the progressives on board by not alienating them with a bunch of Jomentum nonsense.

The progressives, still on board, can work to attack the electronic vote issue, and can help get Democrats elected to the House in places we can score seats. More importantly, they can run people for the office of Secretary of State and get control of the voting process on the ground floor. Two groups - Progressive Democrats of America (the Kucinich people) and Democrats For America (the Dean people)
have recently joined forces and are already organizing to do this. If the party turns right, a lot of the good people working in these groups will tell the party to get bent.

We're a bicoastal/great lakes northeastern elitist liberal party right now, and we have to play to that strength. We have to make the arguments that work - Massachusetts is a great whipping boy for the GOP and their values crap, but I suppose it bears mentioning that our evil state has the lowest divorce rate and the best-working gun laws in the country, and perhaps the moral red states where people are getting divorced left and right while blasting each other with Glock 9's might like to get a bit of our mojo.

We're fighting a political war on twenty fronts right now. One cannot swing one's dead cat by the tail without striking a cause worth dying for. One cannot swing one's dead cat by the tail without striking a fight that, in all honesty, will be very hard to win. A lot of people will tell you that all this stuff, all this inside baseball about where we can win and what we should do, won't come to much of anything unless and until the right to vote is secure, safe and straight.

Money. Money. Money. Those two groups - Progressive Democrats of America and Democrats for America - along with Bev Harris and Black Box Voting - are fighting this fight. Without money, they can't hire lawyers. Without lawyers, they can't do anything at all to represent people who have been disenfranchised. Without money, they can't run people for Secretary of State, and so cretins like Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell will be the ones deciding how people can vote. It isn't enough to be right. Dig deep. Donate.

We are up against a mob of conservatives that have taken our government from top to bottom not because they are right, not because they are more dedicated, but because they are well-funded. If we can't match that, we might as well stay in bed.

Thank you.
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slor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Great stuff...
might I ask what audience you are reading/speaking to?
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proudtobeadem Donating Member (665 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. Who's the audience? n/t
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pbartch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. good speech!
Where are you giving it? I'll keep my fingers crossed that you deliver your speech well that that it's WELL ACCEPTED.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. Two things:
1.) One of the worst aspects of the GEMS hack wasn't shown in the edited version of Bev's presentation to Dean: In GEMS one can change the totals while leaving the individual precinct counts show accurate values - the infamous "two sets of books".

2.) Bev has found what may amount to THE smoking gun in Volusia County:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2704906


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BlueDog2u Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. Superb
Thanks for sharing this analysis and vision.
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. Sounds like a barn burner
Give 'em hell, Will. Once I saw you on Democracy Now giving a speech. I'm pretty sure it was you. You were sitting on a stool (smoking?), and really letting it rip. It was before I read you on truthout or here. You reminded me of a late night comedian from the sixties, like Lenny Bruce, without the humor. Just the attitude.
:-)
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Speaking of money...
I just signed up for monthly contributions. I GOTTA see that boxing glove connect with his face TODAY!
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Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Please, please, oh please
say this is not solely for the splendor of your bathroom mirror.

Psst - in your thunderous ode, the journalistic community misses/missed an opportunity to contribute to the continued well being of democracy just like those Ohio miscreants...
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. Break a leg
figuratively speaking of course. Who are you addressing?

And please and as always, go armed most stealthfully with your trusty Ravioli can and beware of airborn flying projectiles of great weight.

Good luck !
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. "Can these machines account for all that? No."
I just skimmed it but don't think you mentioned that all of the shift from exit polling to actual tallies erred in favor of Bush and that absolutely nothing except fraud can account for that. Probably true that they didn't do it all through the machines.

Your view that money and a better organized campaign and looking to the future are wrong (in my opinion.)

Kerry won, just like Gore won. The thieves had time to perfect their assault.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. There is a speaker before me
who will be focusing on those issues and facts. I am tasked with the 'where do we go from here' aspect of the thing.
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. fabulous
BTW--Just because I'm upset about Kerry's concession and silence doesn't mean that he hasn't been a personal hero of mine. I watched him on CSPAN through the MIA hearings that he did with Senator Smith--nuff said.

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Bushfire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. What counties in FL does Diebold have their hands in?
It is my understanding that ES&S, and Sequoia have a foothold in Florida. If you make the statement "but as long as Jeb and Diebold run things down there", you will likely be quoted that as not having your facts right down the road.

Here's an article that shows ES&S has their foothold in Miami-Dade, and Broward counties:

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1084316008117
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Thanks
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. I believe the GEMS (Diebold) central tabulator is the weak link....
or the Strongest link for cheating. From the way I am reading it, the machines in each precinct do not matter if they all are uploading the votes to GEMS/Diebold which is where the real crime occurs.

http://www.equalccw.com/dieboldtestnotes.html
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Bushfire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. ES&S and Sequoia optical scan both have a central computer
or tabulator that could equally do damage to democracy if they'd release the sourcecode. Diebold was the only one so far that I know of to have left their "pants" down.

I have read a lot of e-voting articles, but I've yet to see any FL counties that have purchased Diebold central tabulators. WillP should be really careful with his public speeches, because we all know how the GOP will take advantage of twisting words. We have the facts, thus we have the advantage in the long run.
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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Here is some statistical work done by Lynn Landes, working off the
Kathy Dopp work. http://www.ecotalk.org/Florida2004.htm

You can see from here that no Florida county, according to this, has a Diebold touchscreen machine.

However, there are plenty of Diebold optical scan counties in Florida.

We know the most about Diebold because they left their source code and emails places where people could find them.

I understand Sequoia left their code somewhere as well, but haven't heard if anyone has gotten very far in deciphering it.

Meanwhile, the other two major companies, ES&S and Hart InterCivic have not come under the same intense scrutiny. However, a couple of preliminary looks at discrepancies in Florida (one showed them in touchscreen counties, the Berkeley UC one; one showed them in optical scan counties, done here at DU) found the counties pretty well spread across different machines in use. These are preliminary, but a skeptical view would be that NONE of the machine tabulating functions has been thoroughly examined and found up to the seriousness of the task. (Arguably, there's no way to assure that nontransparent computer code can be safeguarded every step of the way, every hour, from development to shipment to storage to use.) Diebold is easy to kick around, with their CEO's famous statement and their rather interesting internal emails. But, with the same level of scrutiny, there's no telling what the others might divulge...
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huckleberry Donating Member (729 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. Great!! Will this be on C-SPAN?
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yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
14. Excellent summary, but...
could do without this lil gem: "amount to a bucket of warm spit"
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
16. thoughts
1. You wrote: "I'll ignore the fact that the media still sucks"

I believe something still brief but more descriptive than "sucks" would be useful. "refuses its responsibility"? "capitulates to power"? The word "sucks" allows too much interpretation.

2. I wish a sentence or two could be included about the desperate need for Democrats to spend money to define "values" to include the fight against poverty, for health care, for affordable housing, etc. And I wish a sentence could be included that would encourage Democrats to run on their overwhelming moral authority, as exemplified in those social issues that have given Americans dignity and meaning. These are the key to winning in 2008.
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lthuedk Donating Member (551 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
17. Here's my dream come true:
http://www.light-to-dark.com/fascists_in_fall_colours.html

Your's is a strong speech, William. Time to do battle.

Stephen Pitt
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dmac Donating Member (414 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
18. You never replied who you are addressing? nt
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selmo7 Donating Member (275 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
21. Hope you are giving the speech here?
11/21/2004 Voting Irregularities 2004: Was the Election Stolen?* Sunday, November 21, 5:30 - 7:30 PM Brookline Community Center for the Arts, 18 Green St, Coolidge Corner, Brookline Sponsored by the Brookline Peaceworks Forum:

SPEAKERS: Jonathan Simon (Alliance for Democracy) Mr. Simon was able to download the raw exit poll data for 47 states from the National Election Pool (Edison/Mitofsky). It is these data that raise questions about whether the Republicans stole the 2004 election in the swing states. Mr. Simon will discuss the implications of his data, as well as other voting irregularities in the 2004 Presidential election. He will also lead a discussion about what to do about these voting irregularities.

Williams Rivers Pitt, founder of and contributor to truthout.org. Mr. Pitt has been an articulate and outspoken critique of the Bush Administration, and will lead a discussion of what we should do now.

DISCUSSION: What steps do we need to take immediately to address whether the 2004 election was stolen. What steps do we need to take to make sure that every vote counts in the future (verified voting, non-partisam election officials,
etc.) Who should we be supporting (including with our pocketbook), and how?


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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. That's the one
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. A wonderful speech!!! One issue: I read fast, but I didn't see anything
specifically about the problems about machines with no paper trail, which is a horribly important thing for people to be highly aware of. We must correct this problem immediately.

I have used this analogy: Would you do banking without getting ATM receipts or monthly statements? Would you trust your bank's computer system that much? Even if you think of your banker as highly honest, it would be foolhardy to trust the bank's computer system to that degree. Have you ever known any electronic machine to be absolutely infallible? And yet we are blindly trusting an electronic system to be infallible when we allow e-voting machines without papertrails to tally our votes, with absolutely no ability to audit the accuracy of the result.

Another example that may be helpful is to ask the audience just how much security software they have loaded on their own personal computers. (We all have LOTS, don't we?) It should make people think about the risks of any electronic system. Feel free to borrow these ideas, and/or modify them for your uses as necessary.

I hope none of what I've written here sounds like any sort of criticism, because your speech is outstanding!
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Degeezer Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
23. Don't get your hopes up
regarding the senators.

Each state gets 2 senators regardless of it's population so the most you can hope for is a reduction of members of the House of Representatives.
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GingerSnaps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. ...
Edited on Mon Nov-22-04 03:06 AM by GingerSnaps
:hi:
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grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
24. Fan-fugu-tastic Will
as always. I wish I could be there to see it.
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GingerSnaps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
28. We are proud of you Will.....Step on a red rose
Great speech...Good Luck...:hug:
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 04:30 AM
Response to Original message
30. Hi, Will
Good speech. Go get 'em!!

:bounce:

:kick:
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
31. Link to final
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/112304Z.shtml

Thanks for the help, everyone.
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