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Kerry has no chance in 2008 if he doesn't fight now.

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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:54 AM
Original message
Kerry has no chance in 2008 if he doesn't fight now.
I don't know if he is planning on fighting now or not. I am loosing faith though. And if he doesn't I consider it a betrayal if he doesn't stand up now. 2004 is his only chance. And if he does become the dem candidate in 2008 I expect it will be disastrous for the party as many will go to alternative parties. I want to believe he is working in the background, but time is running out and we don't have time to raise hell if he is not.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. please, please, please don't even entertain the notion...
...of another Kerry campaign. Remember-- insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different outcome.
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Like not....
Like not really looking at the 2000 election, and just hoping for a different outcome in 2004?
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. yes, there is a certain history here, isn't there...?
eom
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. I think perhaps it would be a good idea if we selected our
next Democratic presidential candidate from a different fraternity.
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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. Let's be radical
. . . and choose someone who isn't a Yalie.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Do you really think we should be that radical?
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. btw: I can not imagine
anyone thinking united under bush is a good thing. It is better divided and making a stand than united and on a road to hell.
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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Tis True
I would rather be on the side of the road flailing my arms wildly declaring "Turn!!! Turn!!!" to the pickup truck about to drive off of a cliff, then to catch up with it and jump in the back.....
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. I am with you...Fooled me once and all that. I feel very betrayed.
Edited on Tue Nov-16-04 12:12 PM by mom cat
Not only that, today I got an e-mail from the dnc asking ME if I still had any fight left (it was a pitch for money and volunteer time to help out with the Louisiana House races. I wrote then back asking how They had the nerve to ask anything of us when THEY were standing by and letting a Second presidential race get stolden..I told them if they would show some fight, I could muster some too. Otherwise, I was going to spend what little time and money that I have left on the recount- which is where they should be spending theirs.
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ollie3 Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. How about a refund of the money if you don't enter the fight?
There is a serious moral issue here. We were asked to contribute money in case a challenge to the election was necessary. Yadayada. Well, if they are not going to challenge, in spite of the fishy smell of this election, in spite of the fact that Nader and Badnerik and Cobb are challenging it, then at the very least Kerry owes us our money back. If he can hold on to this money under these circumstances he does not deserve our continued support if he chooses to run again for office. SOrry. Money talks, bs walks.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. AMEN!
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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. Amen
It infuriates me that their idea of grassroots involvement is for us to give more and more money.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. I wouldn't mind the money if they didn't throw the election away!
I hope they still come through. Right now, however, we need to fight for the recount. DU has a new forum on vote fraud. Check into it!
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errorbells Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. re: I am with you...
I agree almost 100% with you, with the exception of the state I and generations of my ancestors have lived in.

Texas

We need to get these people like Delay out of here.
Kay B Hutch. etc.....they have a tight grip on this state because of their money. We can only fight them by making sure the $$ field is more equal.

I spoke with the party chairman (Charles Soechting) and he was mad as hell about
the way the DNC treated Texan Democrates...I won't go in to it, but he is right.

You want a fighting chance to win this country back from the Republicans?..then give what money you can to TEXAS! (that is after we make sure the elections are cleaned up-recount-make software..? safer? get rid of it!)

http://www.txdemocrats.org /

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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. As anex-Texan, I have nothing but admiration for all of the impressive
work that ya'll have done down there! If I get a refund from the DNC, I will send some to you. I am tapped out right now after giving so much to the Kerry-Edwards campaign. Hang in there!
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. If we don't address these voting issues now
what makes you think they won't happen again, no matter who runs?
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I agree. And where is Geltleman Johnny "Reporting for Duty"
Kerry?

If he doesn't make a stand now, he can take a walk in 2008. No way!
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. Gent "Reporting for Duty" Johnny Morphed Into "Johnny Come Lately"...N/T
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. Chance??? Swiftboats Vets Redux. I'd rather not.
No thank you.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. No one does (if not of the ruling party)
It's not Kerry's career, it's our democracy he is burrying in his cowardice.
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NicRic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Lets make a deal ....
I will agree with you if bushes inaguration comes and goes without anything about this election being stolen coming from the Kerry camp ! Untill then ,lets give him the benifit of the doubt that he is smart enough to know the media would and the White House (two peas in a pod)would spin and spin any public suggestion from Kerry about a stolen election ,as nothing more then a sore loser crying foul. Perhaps he is getting the goods on the thiefs as they celebrate getting away with another stolen election !
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hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Democracy, not Kerry or this election, ...
is the real issue. I continue to have hope that something is happening behind the scenes, but that hope is fading fast with time.

If anyone thinks that by not fighting this time, there will be any chance that it matters who runs in 2006 or 2008, they're as out of touch with reality as the Bushies.

In the future, the whole purpose of exit polls will be to tell Diebold how many votes to steal.
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. You know damn well DEAN would have fought this!
Indeed, Howard Dean was talking with Bev Harris about e-voting fraud months ago.
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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. What is Dean doing about this now?
Kerry has no chance in 2008 regardless.

I agree that Dean would have likely fought hard. But what is he doing now? Is he helping advance recount efforts?
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intelle Donating Member (416 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Yes, where is Dean now?
I checked out his website, and not a mention of this election debaucle.

I have my doubts that he would have done anything different than Kerry is apparently not doing.
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PeterPan Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
20. if this election stands
it will make no difference which candidate the democrats run nor how perfect a campaign they run, how deftly they address 'moral values' or how abjectly they pander to the christian right or anything - the dems could run abraham lincoln in 2008 and the republicans will steal that.

wake up - we no longer live in a representative democracy - this is a one party state - they had elections in the soviet union too and no amount of hand wringing and soul searching will change that - forget about 2008, we need to fight 2004 now!
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RUAWHACKO Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
27. Your Right
If he doesnt fight now... forget it

That he conceded so quickly was ridiculous
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burn the bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
28. i was never polically involved before
but i could see the Bush problem was bad. When I found DU and BBV and places like that, it made me realize how bad things were with bush. I would have voted for anybody but Bush with my favorite being my own choice snoopy/manson, as I figured they would be better than what we have now.
Then the more I learned about Kerry, the more I liked. Was all 4 him, felt he was an honerable man and would do a good job. Even felt that we may have had a real chance for world peace with someone like him coming in just as Arafat was dying again.
But now, the way the dems have left us to be eaten by the media, and left to fight the fight on our own, and even making fun of us, well, I would still put him in before Bush, but I would not vote him in for a second term.
I do like the cut of this Cobbs Jib and think that instead of worrying if dems need to get religion or whatever to get the votes, I think that a new progressive party needs to emerge. One that wont back down. One with people like Cobb and Dean working together for the real people.
I often wonder if the dems are not involving themselves because perhaps they too have been guilty of a few things too?
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a new day Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
29. Kerry: good at asking for money, bad at using it properly
Edited on Wed Nov-17-04 01:57 PM by a new day
I didn't give the K/E campaign money to build a 2008 slush fund. I wanted a fair and properly counted election. I don't give a flying fig about the outcome.

Dear Robert,

Right now I need all of you to join me and make a pledge: the mistakes of the 2000 election will NEVER be repeated again. The day after the election, as the recount began, Al Gore's campaign was already outgunned, outmanned, and outmatched -- we learned one lesson: be prepared. With the race so close in so many states, we need to be prepared for any possibility -- and that means being ready for any recounts.

The Federal Election Commission has just granted our request to raise funds now to cover recount expenses. Your contribution to Kerry-Edwards 2004 GELAC (General Election Legal and Accounting Compliance fund) will provide the resources to make sure we are prepared to win any post Election Day battles.

Make a contribution to our GELAC fund today:

https://contribute.johnkerry.com

Our GELAC fund also pays for the administrative costs at the campaign -- by paying for these expenses with GELAC funds, the campaign is able to spend more of its limited public funds on critical campaign expenses such as media, candidate travel, and direct contact with voters.

Make our public funds more valuable and make sure we are prepared for any possible recount.

https://contribute.johnkerry.com

Thank you,

Mary Beth Cahill
Campaign Manager

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