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Not much post-election traffic on this forum. Anyone care to speculate about why?

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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 09:12 AM
Original message
Not much post-election traffic on this forum. Anyone care to speculate about why?
My take is that it was always just about the Bush regime. Now that that's overwith, at least temporarily, no one gives a shit about election integrity!

Any other theories? :shrug:
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. Not much to say. And many are speechless at America's continued decline into Idiocracy.
:shrug: indeed.

.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. sheer exhaustion?
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. I just woke up after only 4 1/2 hours... was waiting on Colorado
Don't jump to conclusions.
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Denninmi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. 2 1/2 hours of sleep
Couldn't stop watching the train wreck until about 4:00 am, had to get up at 6:30 to get ready for work.

Well, like Craig Ferguson says in his theme song, "Hey, hey, you can always sleep through work tomorrow."
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Just don't snap... if all around you at work are bright eyed, bushy-tailed
and talking nothing but Dancing with the Stars (and shocked that there was an election yesterday). ;)
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Johnny2X2X Donating Member (356 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
4. Awe
Sheer awe at the stupidity of many Americans. Apparently many Americans want a return to the nightmare that we saw under Republican rule.
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
7. National malaise?
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AtLiberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
8. Face it...
Democrats believe they lost, so they aren't interested in thinking about fraud.

The tsunami makes an excellent distraction from problems with the electoral process. Never mind that the Democrats may not have lost as badly as reported. The very people who won big are, for the most part, controlling the electoral process via access, power and money.

Seems like people only become interested in potential problems with the electoral process a day or so before an election. They take a crash course in pollwatching. The definition of pollwatching for many is simply a glorified get-the-vote-out effort. Very little emphasis is given to things that have been discussed here.

There just aren't very activists like us out there. We think about Election Day EVERY day.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. What is there to do?
We worked our asses off for years and got people aware and it seems at this point that the machines may have counted correctly.

Do you have some evidence that the machines did not count correctly?
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Crickets?
You run away, or what? Maybe we bore you?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. This is what is exhausting about election reform.
Edited on Wed Nov-03-10 03:54 PM by EFerrari
I don't need evidence that the machine did not count correctly. I need evidence that they did in order to have confidence in the results that are screamed all over by the noise machine before the "counting" is even over.

The media is so loud and we're such good trained seals, we don't even bother to notice. You don't trust the cashier to give you the right change when you buy beer at the 7/11. Surely we can pay as much attention to the vote counting that determines our elections as we do to our beer money.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. well
The closest race of all, the Fla. govs race could easily be checked and with good reason. But will they?

I don't trust the machines without an audit, but who is gonna listen to me?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I will. Myself, I want to check out Maricopa County
as soon as I kill this overhang. :hi:
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. Lack of evidence never stopped us from speculating before, did it?
Edited on Wed Nov-03-10 05:08 PM by Bill Bored
What evidence is there ever about how the machines actually counted? There are the usual complaints about vote switching on touchscreens, but if there were vote switching in ballot scanners, no one would know.

Certainly all the results are still unofficial, but no state does a real audit of US House races. Most states don't audit statewide races very well either.

I'd say see how many close races there were, esp. in the House or smaller contests, and then see what the "tsunami" would look like if their outcomes were reversed. Then think about what it would take for them to be reversed and how easy that might be given the voting systems and procedures in place in each state or county.

Otherwise we're just reading polls or something. That's not evidence.
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diva77 Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. I'm surprised to hear you say that the machines may have counted correctly. The machines
Edited on Wed Nov-03-10 09:45 PM by diva77
are completely NONtransparent and what was clear about this election is that Republicans and the right winged media were able to tweak variables to create the appearance of close races so that if the machines had to be "tilted" slightly, no one would notice. We have no way to disprove beyond a reasonable doubt the hypothesis that the votes were counted incorrectly.

Voter registration for Democrats was way down due to the obliteration of ACORN and similar organizations who were intimidated into giving up. Polls were skewed, for example, excluding cell phone users; the media never had balanced coverage of candidates; right wing candidates had limitless money from unknown sources, etc. etc.

A group of people in Los Angeles County (largest county in the US) attempted to follow the chain of custody of ballots in yesterday's election only to find out that it is impossible to witness the entire chain.

With the excessive number of provisional ballots and VBM ballots -- apparently reaching numbers in the 100's of thousands in the Nov. 2008 election in LA County, it seems entirely possible for a close race to be turned around by disqualifying enough of those ballots to make the difference.

As long as computers are involved with our elections, I have no confidence in the results.

p.s. I'm pretty sure you were already aware of all of this already; just ranting!!

:hi:
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Yeah, you are right
I guess I kinda give up. Burned out. I mean... who gives a shit?

The victims don't believe they have been screwed. The party won't even allow discussion, and the
discussions here are always on a fine line of getting deleted.

As long as the sheep go willingly to slaughter, who am I to try to save them?


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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. didn't seem to have vote flipping on Nov 2 in North Carolina
there was vote flipping when voters picked straight ticket for GOP, the vote would
flip to DEM ticket.

On Oct 20, NC SBoE began telling counties to calibrate touchscreens EACH DAY of early voting.
This is 6 days into early voting, by the way.

Then judge ordered touchscreen counties to (on Nov 2) post warnings about the machines and urge voters to check summary screens.

There seem to be little or no reports of touchscreens flipping votes on Nov 2.

Perhaps counties should have known to calibrate machines each day of voting, which is about 2 1/2
weeks in NC.

We had scattered but few reported problems in NC, incidents are lower this year than in 2008 by far,
and then WAY lower than in 2004, when NC led the nation in election problems.



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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. I'm sure your work contributed to improvements seen in NC! nt
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
11. PS, I recommended this thread but it still shows "0" recommends
some asshat must be doing drive by unrecommend.

Someone fairly new perhaps, who prefers all digital voting.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. What happened in Tennessee (and why we'll never know why)
Edited on Wed Nov-03-10 03:06 PM by Fly by night
Most of y'all here know Tennessee's recent election integrity-related history: our passage of a paper ballots law (the TN Voter Confidence Act) in 2008 (but only after a compromise to delay implementation to 2010); the "unexpected" 2008 seizure of our state legislature by Republicans for the first time since Reconstruction; having the TVCA challenged immediately and then (once again) delayed until 2012; and a puzzling and perhaps predictable series of incredible election results beginning and continuing thereafter. As a result of all that, here is what happened in Tennessee last night, and why we'll never know why.

The discussion below is about the continuing incredible shift in our state legislature. Though this thread does not discuss it, our US Congressional delegation also went from 5-4 Dem to 7-2 Republican, including the loss of the most DINO DINO I know (Lincoln Davis) to a mentally unstable (and pug-ugly) reich-wing neophyte.

Go figure (or review the usual suspect below and the evidence trail above). FBN
-------

I. From the Nashville Scene blog last night and this morning, to give you a sense of the far-right shift in surreal time: (This is posted here with permission.)

http://www.nashvillescene.com/pitw/archives/2010/11/02/...

Voters Paint State House Red: GOP Grabs 64-Seat Majority
Posted by Jeff Woods on Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 8:26 PM

Update: Columbia's Ty Cobb and Harriman's Dennis Ferguson are the first state House Democratic incumbents to go down tonight. Both lost to womenCobb to right-wing Christian author and motivational speaker Sheila Butt and Ferguson to Julia Hurley, an ex-Hooters waitress whose campaign probably took off like a rocket when this picture of her circulated in the district.

Update II: Republican David Alexander has beaten Democratic Rep. George Fraley of Winchester.

Update III: Another House Democrat loses: Cookeville's Henry Fincher has been defeated by the GOP's Ryan Williams. The president poisoned the well, the always quotable Fincher says. State-wide people just arent voting for Democrats.

Update IV: Don Miller has defeated Larry Mullins to give Republicans another House seatthe one vacated by Democrat Rep. John Litz.

Update V: Seven more Democrats appear to have lost in the HouseLes Winningham, Butch Borchert, Judy Barker, Mark Maddox, Eddie Yokley, Jim Hackworth and Stratton Bone. Republicans now have gained a whopping 12 seats. That would give the GOP an invulnerable 62-seat majority.

Update VI: The GOP gains two more seatsSam Coleman has conceded to Jim Gotto in the race to succeed Ben West in the state House from Hermitage. And Murfreesboro's Kent Coleman has lost to Mike Sparks.

Update VII: In a big surprise, Doug Jackson has become the only Senate Democrat to lose. Champion of the guns-in-bars law, Jackson was the freakiest of all gun freaks in the legislature, but it didn't save him from the Republican wave.

Update VIII: GOP chairman Chris Devaney"For the first time in modern history, Republicans are going to lead at every level of government in this state. This is truly a historic day and Republicans are honored that voters have put their trust in our party to lead Tennessee.

State House GOP leaders are predicting an even bigger-than-expected night for Republicans. "I think we will" do better than the two- or three-seat gain that many were predicting for Republicans in the state House, Rep. Beth Harwell says.
----

II. This is the Scene's post-election blog thread this morning: (This is a very comprehensive and revealing interview that all y'all should read.)

http://www.nashvillescene.com/pitw/archives/2010/11/03/...

If Gandhi Were a Democrat, Would He Lose Too?
Posted by Jeff Woods on Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 12:27 PM

A shell-shocked Mike Turner, chairman of the state House Democrats political caucus, sat down with reporters this morning to try to explain what the hell happened to his party in yesterdays elections. Surprising even themselves, Republicans gained a whopping 14 seats in the House and took a 64-seat majority. The silver lining for Democrats? No need to worry about gerrymandering anymore. Voters took care of that.

The election left only nine House Democrats from the hinterlands, all but decimating the partys once-mighty rural presence. Survivors have been cornered in cities, and 15 of the 34 remaining House Democrats are black.

In typical Tennessee Democratic fashion, Turner conveniently blamed the whole disaster on unpredictable swings in voter passion.

If Mahatma Gandhi had been a Democrat yesterday, he probably would have gotten killed if he was in the wrong district, Turner said. Its just a tough time to be a Democrat right now.....

Q: What were you most surprised about?

Turner: I was totally shocked at Jim Hackworth and Stratton Bone. I didnt see either one of those coming at all. As a matter of fact, Jims probably got a lot of money left in the bank to be honest about it. Mark Maddox too. That was totally off the radar screen. I didnt see that one coming at all. Mark just got elected president-elect of the NCSL, which is a national organization that he will no longer be able to serve as. We lost some real good legislators. Whether you are a Republican or a Democrat, I think most people at the end of the day would like to see good quality people in these positions. We lost some real good ones yesterday....

(Again, visit the link and read a very comprehensive, and incredulous interview with a shell-shocked Dem leader in our legislature. It will not be pretty, but it will sound familiar.)
------

III. This is my response (posted on the Gandhi blog post at the above link. Y'all come and say something your own selves at the same place):

If we keep voting on the same equipment, then -- yes -- Gandhi, Lincoln, even Jesus would likely lose TN elections if they had Ds by their names. Stranger things have happened (like Shelby County, August 2010).

Riddle me this: This is the second straight TN election when the intensity of the right-shift has surprised everyone -- political scientists, pundits, even the Republican spokespeople themselves. The second straight election where long-term, local, well-respected, well-connected moderate to conservative rural Dems have gotten rick-rolled in numbers that defy reasonable explanation.

What are "they" surprised about?

-- That a state with 8% more citizens self-identifying as Democrats than Republicans would vote like just the opposite OR

-- That the people programming the voting machines would be so audacious --- again.

Fortunately for "them" (and specifically because of "them"), we have no way of knowing.

It's not who casts the votes that counts, it's who counts them.
-----

I am thinking of making this its own thread here. What say ye?

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. I hope you do!
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. WTF?
I immediately voted for this thread and it still showed a "0" after I voted -- immediately.

Again, WTF?
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LittleGirl Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'm too depressed to post
Just so unhappy about the results I want to cry.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
18. Tired from the BushCo years, frustrated with Obama,
overwhelmed by this particular election. A trifecta.

althecat was raising the exit poll question last night in GD and I literally had trouble focusing even though I was interested in his question and had some of my own regarding the claims about turn out vs. the announced results, questions about the AZ results, about FL, too. The noise has to go down a little bit.

I don't think most people care about this but most people never really did unless it was part of their operant narrative. That's all right.
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emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
21. I believe there was election fraud.
There is no reason to believe it suddenly stopped. And I do not believe the American people are that stupid.

I believe that all that polling was manipulated so that we would accept this outcome.

We're still using machines that don't provide any kind of confirmation. I still would never trust an ATM machine that would not give me a receipt. The fact that the voting machines don't provide receipts tells me that they were intended to be used for fraud.

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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
22. I have a theory which relates to the way posters are all too often treated in this forum....
Just a thought...

I have no doubt whatsoever that there was election fraud in this election - question is where? Love to know more about Wisconsin.

I also reckon its getting more sophisticated.... and I wonder what the story was with this years Exit Poll.... it seems as if the glitches were ironed out. Which makes me suspicious.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. I have questions about Arizona. And of course, about Florida. n/t
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
23. People think it's a crackpot theory
There are those who did their jobs much too well. :shrug:

lots of reasons. I'm literally falling asleeop as I type yhis! :rofl:
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-10 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
28. This forum was ruined long ago...

A denial of service attack of sorts when handful of obstinate posters took over and drove whatever good discussion there was elsewhere.

Too many people on here want all or nothing, the Perfect Solution (in their eyes), and refused to consider realistic incremental improvement.

It's a shame too, because this was once a productive forum.

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