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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 12:22 AM
Original message
NY: County Challenges Electronic Voting System

County Challenges Electronic Voting System

By ADAM KLASFELD

Thursday, April 01, 2010

MINEOLA, N.Y. (CN) - Nassau County and its Republican and Democratic Elections Commissioners sued New York State for requiring that pull-lever voting machines "trusted" for more than a century be replaced with "computerized voting technology that is notoriously vulnerable to systemic hacking, tampering, manipulation and malfunction."

snip

Nassau County claims the state board approved the company's DS200 model based on "vendor promotional materials" alone and did not even get a test model until weeks after the vote.

Investigations by the St. Petersburg Times showed that the DS200 system repeatedly malfunctioned during the 2008 elections in two Florida counties, according to the complaint.

snip

Lever systems, invented in 1892 and used in New York for about a century, eliminated the reliance on "easily manipulated and destroyed" paper ballots, the county says. It adds that tampering with lever machines can usually be detected by the "trained naked eye," and a jammed machine "remains true" and accurate until the time it malfunctions.

snip

After passage of the state's Election Reform and Modernization Act of 2005, electronic voting machines regularly failed state inspections for 4 years, until the DS200 passed certification on Dec. 15, 2009.

Even after that vote, State Board of Elections Commissioner Douglas A. Kellner acknowledged that the machines had "technical security and documentation issues," although he dismissed the problems, according to the complaint.

snip

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/04/01/26056.htm
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Great to hear
my (former) county is doing business properly!
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-15-10 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
2. kick nt
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tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. How come the county does not challenge the NY Electronic Vote COUNTING System?
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. NY votes are twice tabulated using independant systems.
The cops report it, the newspapers tally those reports, then there's the re-canvass. Doing that, they often catch errors made while manually documenting the lever totals or entering the numbers. (Hey, people are only human.) Still, I think there's room for improvement. It seems all of it could be done manually.

Of course, by introducing OpScans, which is to say computerized vote counting, you'd have the exact same procedure. You/TIA need to come to terms with that. :hi:

Now, do you have a link demonstrating Oregon hand counted ballot 'batches' be manually tabulated. Or are those 'sub-total' also tabulated by independent systems?

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tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Bottom line: NY had tremendous discrepancy (FRAUD!) '04...not Oregon. OR's doing something right.
Edited on Tue Apr-20-10 09:26 PM by tiptoe
 


NY's *system* sucks...bad.

But keep on pretending like nothing's wrong with the count.


If you can't see/find the fraud in the levers+meters, transfer of info, and/or in the electronic counting, then dump the whole damn NY system (the fraudulent vote-count in the Seven NYC Area counties is obvious) and mimic Oregon.

(NY can't be any worse than it was in '04 and '08. CT's system stinks as well; and Lieberman probably likes it just fine.)

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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. It was a reasonable question. Like when you get asked about "flipped votes". Crickets.
This poster doesn't like levers OR your argument. He's still waiting for an answer.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. New York Voting Anomalies
Edited on Tue Apr-20-10 10:15 PM by tiptoe

New York Voting Anomalies

...
6- Election Incident Reporting System (EIRS): Many NYC precincts had broken machines; all stuck levers were stuck on Bush. Lever voting machines have given New Yorkers a false sense of security. The 2004 Election Incident Reporting System confirms that Kerrys winning NY margin was cut drastically by election fraud. There were 19 reported NY 2004 voting machine stuck lever incidents. All 19 were stuck on Bush.

http://www.geocities.com/electionmodel/NY2004EIRS.htm

...

19 Stuck Lever Incidents

The 2004 Election Incident Reporting System confirms that Kerrys winning NY margin was cut drastically by election fraud. There were 19 reported NY 2004 voting machine stuck lever incidents. All 19 were stuck on Bush.

1) 28456 141 Machon Street JHS 258
Only one machine in polling place and its STUCK ON REPUBLICAN, they're giving out envelope that says "affidavit oath", no list of candidates

2) 28554 PS 58, Macon Street Brooklyn
Radio report--minister called in that the machine is broken and ONLY TAKING THE REPUBLICAN side of the vote; report came on the radio 2x while on the phone

3) 28715 PS 306, Wortman & Cozine Ave.
Machine is LOCKED ON THE REPUBLICAN side

4) 29919 PS 306, Vermont Ave.
One of the machines was STUCK ON THE REPUBLICANS. The other machine was only for voters A-L. They disenfranchised anyone whose name was not through A-L. Did vote in the end because last name starts with B.

5) 30394 PS 258 JHS - 141 Macon Street
Machines STUCK SO ONLY REPUBLICANS COULD BE VOTED FOR, told people to go back rather than hand out emergency ballot

6) 33002 PS 126 , 424 Leonard Street
Voter reported that SOMETHING WAS WRONG WITH THE LITTLE LEVER FOR THE DEMOCRATIC Presidential candidate's slot at Polling Machine serial number: 91204. She said that lots of voters complained that the lever did not properly click down.

7) 34442 Taylor White Community Center
THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE WASN'T WORKING --- could only vote for president. This is what she was told regarding the ability to vote along party line. She said she will return later to see if fixed.
39120 - SWITCH FOR DEMOCRATIC AND GREEN CANDIDATES WOULDN'T FUNCTION CORRECTLY but other parties would work, officials did offer paper ballots.

9) 33516 New York PS 199 270 west 70th street
2004-11-02 07:57:10 PST Machine problem
LEVERS WERE BROKEN FOR CERTAIN PARTY LINE, they did not give him emergency ballot because they didn't know which one to give the voter. The voter cast vote for all other candidates. (only specific section of party line was broken).

10) 37472 New York ps 158 11/2/2004; 1:15 pm 2004-11-02 10:31:55 PST Machine problem for voters A-L NO LEVER FOR VP CANDIDATE on DEMOCRATIC side.

11) 33495 ps 158 46-35 oceania st
THE JOHN KERRY CHAD WAS HARD TO PUNCH. None of the other chads for the democratic party candidates were hard to punch.

12) 28481 Bronx PS 50 173rd and Bryant Avenue 6:40 2004-11-02 04:02:36 PST Tyrek said that other voters in line told him that the MACHINES WERE STUCK ON "REPUBLICAN". The line was not moving at all and he did not see whether paper ballots were being passed out to voters. He had to go to work so he left the polling place.

13) 28965 Bronx 11/2/2008 7:30 2004-11-02 04:32:37 PST
MACHINE STUCK IN BUSH/CHENEY POSITION - was allowed to cast paper ballot

14) 31417 Bronx 3410 Dereimer Avenue; apartment building 11/02/04--7:30 a.m. 2004-11-02 06:39:20 PST
Voting machine: only one machine for the 8th district at the location; THE MACHINE WAS STUCK ON "REPUBLICAN" and voters couldn't vote unless they were Republican. One of the police officers there looked at the machine and tried to "unstick" it, but was not successful. Voter is concerned that the paper ballots will not get counted, or will be lost.

15) 29968 Bronx PS 50 Rice Ave 2004-11-02 05:29:28 PST
MACHINE ONLY SET FOR REPUBLICANS, could not vote any other way

16) 30579 Bronx 3410 Dereimer Avenue 11/2/04 at 7 am 2004-11-02 06:01:12 PST MACHINE STUCK ON REPUBLICAN; Gave paper ballots; Voter suspects it was a provisional --rather than an emergency ballot.

17) 39075 Bronx p.s. 50, crotona park east 2004-11-02 11:46:17 PST Individual reports news reports of machine irregular; DEMOCRATIC LEVELS MALFUNCTIONING.

18) 33077 Bronx County PS 105, White Plains Road 2004-11-02 07:42:17 PST
Machine is NOT BEING RE-SET for each voter; the machine REMAINS ON "REPUBLICAN" and voters have not been able to vote for other parties. The pol workers said that they cannot adjust the machine because it will jam.

19) 32390 Bronx PS 50 1550 Vyse Ave 7:05 2004-11-02 07:15:06 PST
Went at 7:05; was told that 6 MACHINES "WERE LOCKED ON REPUBLICAN"

 
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Assuming that all happened, you should be glad it happened on a lever and not an OpScan.
Edited on Tue Apr-20-10 11:26 PM by Wilms
One bad scanner could disenfranchise 4000 voters, without anyone knowing.

The chance of anyone's vote being hand counted in a statewide election in NY would only be 3%, per the paltry audit required by law. The rest will go through OpScans. You with me on this?

If you look closely, you'll see that there are multiple reports for a few machines. You'll also note reports of emergency paper ballots being deployed, which is law. This is afforded because it was an observable problem, unlike with software. You'll also note the relatively small number of problems on a per-capita basis reported in NY State. The undervote rate being so low could have been your first clue.

Such problems, however, couldn't switch votes, like you claim to support your exit poll meme. Isn't that right?

And you've been asked before to explain this report:
"THE JOHN KERRY CHAD WAS HARD TO PUNCH. None of the other chads for the democratic party candidates were hard to punch." :rofl:

A few over-zealous calls to the EIRS are understandable when you free up your mind, is the correct answer. :eyes:

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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Dude, there were many counties in NY with ZERO EIRS incidents in '04. Big ones too! nt
Edited on Tue Apr-20-10 11:26 PM by Bill Bored
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-20-10 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. A lever machine with a "stuck" candidate lever stops working completely.
Edited on Wed Apr-21-10 12:23 AM by clear eye
The main lever that opens the curtain and creates the count for the voter's entire ballot won't work if a candidate lever is "stuck". The count on all votes prior to the lever "sticking" remains accurate. I strongly suspect that this idea that a lever machine with a "stuck" lever can continue to be used creating false votes is disinformation spread by those with an interest in the adoption of opscan machines and computerized counting. It smells of muddying the waters and intentionally creating doubt about something when knowledgeable people have no real doubt--like some interested parties do regarding the reality of manmade climate change.

All the incidents you list show machines that physically couldn't be used by the voter because of the failure. None created false votes. I'm if anything hypersensitive to the possibility of a fraud altered count, since my deepest political belief is that the widest possible citizen empowerment is the only way of reining in the worst abuses of government corruption that harm us all. The only way voting fraud could have been perpetrated in lever-machine era NYS was if the election workers of both parties in a precinct colluded and intentionally recorded a false result. Even then if the count were challenged, the machines would have been reread by others involved and the "error" revealed. When the machine count is exceedingly close there can be hanky-panky with the absentee and provisional ballots. (I remember such a case in local election that led to the probably fraudulent decision on a seat by one vote.) As these types of fraud are independent of the voting device, no system is immune to them, but as you can imagine they are extremely rare and never widespread.

There are often dirty tricks and disinformation in campaigns here as in all states, but how you got the idea into your head that the vote count in NYS in any recent year prior to the opscans was massively off is more than passing strange. Despite large historically conservative upstate areas, the count in socially liberal NYS who were happy w/ the Clinton-era economy was 67% for Gore in 2000, 59% for Kerry in 2004 (the swiftboating and Kerry's "elitist" background and manner took its toll), and 63% for Obama in 2008 when McCain's maverick claims worked better for many NY swing voters than Bush's Texas Republican good ole boy loyalist image did in 2000. Still, politically all these numbers, even Kerry's, are considered Democratic landslides.

Edited to add: I've heard that Oregon is on its way to online voting. I truly hope that NYS doesn't emulate your state's dicey practices.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. But the EIRS says there could've been 19 votes for Bush in NY! And that's JUST NOT POSSIBLE! LOL! nt
Edited on Wed Apr-21-10 01:15 PM by Bill Bored
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Excellent post by the way! nt
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