Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Lever Machines ROCK! (Get over it!)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
 
Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:37 PM
Original message
Lever Machines ROCK! (Get over it!)


NY Still Lagging In Voting Machine Upgrades

By: Michael Scotto


The city's board of elections held a hearing in Lower Manhattan Wednesday
night to address the federal government's mandate of upgrading voting
machines before the next election cycle. NY1's Michael Scotto filed the
following report.

The conversation has been going on for years. At the city Board of
Elections, a hearing was held on the two computer voting machines the city
hopes to choose between in the coming months.

-snip-


Many people at the hearing wish the state would just keep the old
machines, saying new ones open up the door to voter fraud.

"Once you allow software, which we know is undetectably mutable, to count
the votes, then we have no idea how our votes are counted. But we can see
on the lever machine," said Andrea Novick, Election Transparency Coalition.

"I think it's a lot easier to keep the lever machines," said Howard
Stanislevic, eVoter Education Project.

At this point, it looks like voters will be pulling those levers for yet
another round of elections unless Albany can make up its mind.

Video and full article here:
http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/94972/ny-still-l...
Refresh | +12 Recommendations Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think 'lagging' is the wrong word! Great signs! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Signs available here:
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. WHERES THE PAPER . com is promoting paperless levers?
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 12:07 AM by kster
This doesn't make a lick of sense.

They want to know WHERES THE PAPER, then they support a paperless vote counting machine??????


THINK ABOUT IT FOR CHRIST SAKE.

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Lever machines are NOT computers. Have a nice day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. We are on the INTERNET future America is gonna know who is telling the truth
Please keep that in mind.

Hand Count the Paper Ballots at the Polling place, if there are no paper ballots at the polling place to be counted,

YOU ARE BEING SCAMMED!!!! (PERIOD)

You know it and I know it, and most people on DU know it.

Good Day Sir............
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Post #12 is the truth. Read it! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. I've thought about it, and I think New York should keep its old, reliable,
virtually unriggable, and already paid for, publicly owned lever voting machines--and should fight like hell to retain them. Wherever there is 'TRADE SECRET' electronics, there is potentially massive, invisible riggability, and, what is equally damaging and dangerous, corporate privatization of our election process. Elections become the secret purview of the "high priests" of technology. The simple process of casting your vote and counting them becomes a realm of gobble-de-gook for most people. That is wrong and undemocratic. And the cost is exorbitant and neverending. If New Yorkers some day want to convert to hand-counted paper ballots, fine--but that does not seem to be a realistic option at the moment. I'm all for HCPB's. I think that's the very best system--as well as the one that fosters the most public participation. But next to that old, tried and true HCPB system, lever machines are best, and are also time-tested and understandable by most people. And virtually free!

We have suffered disaster in the second Bush-Cheney term, which I attribute to Diebold & brethren. No more contracts for those fuckers! I pray that New York resists it, and I applaud the New York activists with all my heart. Keep the levers!

I don't understand your point, Kster. "Think about it for Christ's sake." I am thinking about it. So are the New Yorkers who are trying to prevent privatization.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yes, NY needs a southern-style 'states rights' campaign!
ER: Works great!


Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. NY Counts Paper Ballots BY HAND, ON ELECTION NIGHT, BEFORE the Ballots leave the poll site.
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 01:34 PM by Bill Bored
kster is apparently not familiar with the situation in NY, and not a supporter of avoiding computerized software-based vote counting.

To oppose keeping lever machines in NY is to advocate, by default, for ballot scanners and software, currently without the necessary checks and balances to make that process reliable and secure.

We won't get hand counts just by filling out millions of paper ballots. No other state has gotten hand counts that way either. Just ask Florida, Ohio, Alabama, Michigan and even California where they NEVER hand count more than 10% of the ballots, even when a contest is practically a tie such as the CA CD-4 House race in 2008!

Unless and until NY can get its act together by at least hand counting enough paper ballots to see who won our elections, and by continuous observation of those ballots post-election, we should NOT be giving up either the lever machines, or the hand counting of paper ballots cast by voters with special needs, counted on election night at the poll sites right after the polls close.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
MarjorieG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. NY gets 3% spot check. No one pushing for audits. We count absentees and BMD ballots that night.
Edited on Sat Mar-07-09 07:40 PM by MarjorieG
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-08-09 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. "I'm all for HCPB's. I think that's the very best system" You need not say more than that
there are four types of baby seats on the market, which seat do you buy for your baby/grand child
A)The Touch screen Baby seat. B)The Optical Scan Baby seat C)The Lever Baby seat, or D)The Hand Counted Baby seat.

If you feel D)The Hand Counted Baby seat is the best system available for your child/grand child, why would you promote New York using C) Lever Baby seats?

Just asking.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. "I don't understand your point, Kster"
Perhaps Kster's point is just endless, mindless spam.

HCPB are not opposed by anyone here. It's a matter of developing a system and logistics that will work in these times of long ballots and shortages of pollworkers. We must work out realistic, difficult logistic solutions to very complicated issues, while fighting off dangerous systems like internet voting and IRV.

Kster does not offer practical solutions, and never has, just spam waste. Energy should be spent on the issues and solutions and logistics, not the energy-waster: kster.

I am appreciative that we have New York standing up!!! Digging in!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Why strap NY kids into a "lever" baby seat , when we can strap them into a
Edited on Mon Mar-09-09 05:09 AM by kster
"hand counted" baby seat?

Especially when "HCPB are not opposed by anyone here". As you say, and as DUer Peace Patriot says..."I'm all for HCPB's. I think that's the very best system"

Why in gods name would you push Lever baby seats in NY?

Just asking.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. there's something basic you seem to be missing
New York already has lever machines. The question right now is whether we scrap them all and switch over to optical scan, or not.

I've got to wonder whether you actually have kids, because I do, and I sure as heck haven't been able to give them the best of everything, all the time. Welcome to the real world. Your position seems sort of like recommending that we throw out our baby seats and hope that we can get better ones instead. If you would do that to your kids, that bothers me.

I do think that some of the pro-lever talking points are over the top. So it goes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. DID SOMEBODY SAY MINDLESS...
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-09-09 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Oh, and another thing....
Edited on Mon Mar-09-09 06:47 PM by Bill Bored
Andi Novick already TRIED to get the State of NY to use HCPB for Federal Elections to comply with HAVA. That's one reason why some want to paint her as a "fringe" activist.

But the point is, she's been there and done that, which is more than we can say for YOU, kster (unless of course you're really Lynn Landes in disguise). :rofl:

Anyway, Novick was not successful, although her legal arguments were correct. HAVA explicitly allows HCPB. (Betcha didn't know that either.)

So if you want to advocate for HCPB, go find a state willing to consider it for the 3 federal offices. Hint: the first one starts with "P" but US House elections are much easier to rig, so I'd try for hand counting those first.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-06-09 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. .
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
MarjorieG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
7. Hadn't seen this. I'm just left out of range.
HAVA doesn't require we get rid of levers, and with other states unable to upgrade from paperless DREs, arguments to replace because of auditing are phony that say we should.

State law of 2005 said we needed to switch to comply, because we couldn't say no to the vendors camped out for almost two decades to sell electonics, or to the commissioners thinking they were going to get shiny and new.

Very uphill fight with the disability community insisting they vote like everyone else, so we need to get scanners for everyones' paper ballot. Took a few years to get them off of touchscreens pitched by their lobbyists.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Stevepol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-07-09 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
11. I like lever machines just fine.
Anything can be hacked, but lever machines are harder than most. And can do less damage at one time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Sep 23rd 2014, 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC