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14% undervote in NM without a paper trail.

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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:27 PM
Original message
14% undervote in NM without a paper trail.
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indianablue Donating Member (558 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. The straight ticket screwed us.
I think if all the Democrats that voted who voted straight ticket did not.

Kerry would have won Ohio, Florida and New Mexico.

I can help explian exit pills as well. People votoing stright ticket saying they voted for Kerry but actully voted for Bush or none of the above.

With any computer program you have to have defaults. In this case Bush was the default.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
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angrydemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. That Is Pure BS
Voting a straight dem ticket didn't screw anybody! The damn rigged machines is what screwed this election up! I think Rove has Cheneyed you one to man times and it has messed your brain up!
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illuminaughty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Incoherent sentences and spelling mistakes
What does that add up to? Goodbye.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. I Think IndianaBlueDem's Post Was Completely Misunderstood
Voting a straight party ticket in many states excludes the presidential race. I too believe this disadvantaged Kerry. There is a chance someone who votes votes straight party will not cast a vote for president by mistake.

IndianaBlueDem's theory, as I understand it, is that these potential undervotes were programmed to record as a vote for Bush. I don't know if that's what happened or not, but it's a possibility that ought to be considered in any investigation of hacking.

Geez, people, at least understand the point before accusing people of being disruptors.
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indianablue Donating Member (558 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thanks
First thanks for sticking up for me. My point could have come across better and the spelling was bad etc, I wrote it in haste.

Here is my point.

I have wrote programs before, nothing remotely worthy of praise but when you write a program you typically have to have defaults in order for the program not to produce errors.

It is fact that in some states when you vote straight ticket you do not vote for President.

One of two things happened in that case. One no vote for President was cast even though the person thought they did vote fro President. The other possibility is Bush got the vote because he is the default; he was at the top of the ticket, the default choice.

Thanks again for speaking up for me.

You have an opinion that someone does not understand or misunderstands and you get grief even here.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I've Been Accused of Being a Freeper, Too
because I've been vocal about insisting that charges of fraud based on bad information or bad logic should not be publicized.

On the other hand, we ought to investigate all possibilities, even those which currently don't have any evidence to back them up yet. There are so many ways that fraud can be committed we have to cast a wide net.

Don't worry too much about being called names. It's actually against the rules. We're supposed to hit alert and not say anything if there's a suspicious post.
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indianablue Donating Member (558 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. As soon as you say fraud or steal....
People tune out.

I do believe serious problems occurred during this election but unless we have concrete proof of fraud then it will not matter. I think it will take whistle blowers in order to really get to the heart of it.

What I want is a voter verifiable paper trail.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. i know you took some heat, but this makes a lot of sense to me
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 05:38 PM by noiretblu
welcome, indianablue...
it makes perfect sense that people *thought* they voted for kerry, and said so in the exits polls. and it makes perfect sense that the votes were stolen from straight Dem voters...only in the presidential race. if you look at the colorado numbers, they definitely bear out this scenario. dem senator elected, but bush re-selected...and the margins of victory in both races if suspiciously and remarkably similar.
:beer: have one on me, since the honeymoon was so brief.
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Robert Oak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. very smelly, no way 14% n/t
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Pastor of Deaniacs Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Nothing to see here...
Move along, move along...

:rollseyes:
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. That's why Bev Harris's group is looking into it
As she posted on her website (dated 11/13):

Black Box Voting is implementing fraud diagnostics on the state of New Mexico. Information we recently received is indicative of widespread vote manipulation.

Go, Bev!!
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Can they get the machines impounded for analysis?
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. I personally have always thought that New Mexico was probably the most...
fixed state of all in this election. Ever since Woodruf said that 10,000 votes suddenly "changed" when Bush said he wanted the state called for him near 2:00 am EST.

Everything from that state just doesn't look right...
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ISUGRADIA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
8. It wasn't 14% in NM, read the linked account
14% in Taos county claimed. The Democratic Secretary of State's Page has 713,165 votes cast statewide and 707,329 for president, a .82% undervote.


http://65.160.159.96/County0.htm


The Taos breakdown of votes shows only a 4.5% undervote on the SOS page.

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Dolphyn Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. 14% in one precinct
I think they're only claiming 14% in one precinct. Funny that it should be "the most Democratic of all the precincts in the state."

:eyes:
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
16. Greg Palast predicted this would happen in NM....
months ago... :(
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. What? That people would hit the "straight ticket" and miss Prez? nt
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. yep...a straight ticket Dem vote
would register as either a non-vote for president...or as a vote for *, and that would explain the differences between actual votes and exit polls.

does anyone know which states have straight-ticket voting? i googled this, but didn't come up with any clear answers.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. There are several states which do this, but the fact that it excludes prez
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 06:19 PM by NewYorkerfromMass
seems like fraud in itself. I mean, "straight-ticket" means straight-ticket. Anything less is fraudulent.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. some are speculating
that this could be done by a computer program...which would definitely be fraud.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. disenfranchisement of the Hispanic vote
was his overall concern.
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