Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Glad This Forum Is Quiet

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 09:23 PM
Original message
Glad This Forum Is Quiet
Edited on Mon Nov-17-08 09:31 PM by BeFree
4 years ago today we were raising HELL! Kerry had the election stolen right out from underneath us
and we were pissed. Many new people came onto DU to find out what the hell had happened and
we were here to give them the story and talk it through. Gawd, those were some raucous days.

Now, all is peace and quiet and instead of raising hell and pulling our hair out, we are a bunch
of happy campers. That my friends is change, real change, and just what we needed.

By 2005 some of us were pretty down and low, but not out. Nope, we stuck in there and we busted balls,
raised more hell, became edumacated, and fought for our votes. Looks like we won.

Congratulations and all that. And Thanks.

BeFree (or suffer).
Refresh | +4 Recommendations Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. We still need some serious reform.
I guess we'll have to drop that suggestion off at change.gov.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. We sure do... but yes it is good that it is relatively quiet
And in that quietude we need to find the strength to push to fix this thing for the 2010 midterms and beyond.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Ditto that! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Amen. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Stevepol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 05:28 AM
Response to Original message
4. To mis-quote McCain, The fundamentals of our election system remain unsound.
Until the fundamentals change (we get paper ballots and robust AUDITS where optiscans are used), we better not fold up our tents. Here's the assessment at Election alliance:

"In 2008 the exit poll discrepancy was considerably smaller than in 2004, but it was still well outside the margin of error. I wont calculate an exact number, since we dont have all the data yet. But its safe to say that the difference is very unlikely to be explained by chance alone."

www.electiondefensealliance.org
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
TellTheTruth82 Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. I'm not
It means we were mad that Kerry didn't win, not that we were supporting election reform. It appears election reform is only needed if the opponent wins. What does that make us?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. "....make us"
Hello, and welcome to DU.

Most of us were involved in election reform well before the 2004 election. So when election day rolled in we were well aware of most of the potential problems and sure enough, the problems became evident.

We weren't mad Kerry didn't win. Kerry won. We are mad that the election was stolen. We are mad that all the problems we saw were ignored by the media, the democratic party, and election officials.

So, I don't know what that makes you -- except wrong as hell about the rest of us -- because the rest of us are, and have been, in it for the long haul for true reform.

The rest of us possess a sense of inner peace because through all of our varied efforts we were able to somewhat suppress the theft this time.... at the very least we had the theives looking over their shoulders this time, whereas in 2004 they got away with it clean as a whistle.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
TellTheTruth82 Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I think you are missing the point
Why is the forum quiet? Is there no longer a need for election reform? If so, why isn't everyone still shouting about it just as much as before the election? So again I ask, what does that make us?

"somewhat suppress the theft" is an accomplishment, but not the goal. I would argue that it is still going on....I truly believe the Minnesota Senator election has it going on, but in favor of Al Franken. Where is the outrage? Or does the point of view matter?

So again, what does that make us?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Ok
Why don't you tell us what we are? You're not saying we are a bunch of hypocrits, are you?

A lot of us put a lot of time and energy into exposing the election systems and into reform. You appear to be a newbie here, so I don't expect that you are aware of all the efforts.

I am glad this forum is quiet. It is quiet because we were successful at making sure the theft that occured in 2004 did not reach the same level this time. Had we not been successful we would be raising hell. This forum is quiet because we are winning. We haven't won, we are just winning. Finally. And frankly, some of us are tired. Tired of taking cheap shots from people who have fought us all along, and tired of the cheap shots from some who come in here and slander us time and again. To them I say FU!

If you have a case to be made about any race, make it. Tell us what you see and if any of us can help I'm sure you'll get a response. Otherwise take your complaints and shove them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. BTW
You are a newbie here, or otherwise you'd a seen my posts before the election claiming that Obama could steal the election because of the way elections are run.

Those posts were a true call for reform. Search for 'em.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
TellTheTruth82 Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. actually a lurker, so I have read the posts
Edited on Thu Nov-20-08 08:36 AM by TellTheTruth82
You made my point. We are winning, not we have not won, and we should not be quiet until we have won.

As far as a race goes, I would think ballots "found" in the back of a car sounds kinda suspicious. Don't you? Certainly as suspicious as machines that may not have been zeroed out before being put in use. The voting in Ohio and Virginia was scandalous (as far as the provisional voting/requirements go). A case has already been publicized (in Ohio) where votes were withdrawn rather than face criminal charges. How much was not uncovered? One could make the point that it wasn't enough to make a difference, but in my mind, even one fraudulent vote is too much.

Also bear in mind that I have always played the devil's advocate when it comes to discussions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
8. Ninety days is all Obama/Biden get then the fight is on
we need adults with common sense, that if a voter wants to audit and or do a full hand count of a polling place there is a procedures in place to do it.

No ifs ands or buts, no lawsuits just plain old common sense, if I call to hand count or audit polling place A, three days prior to the election, counting tables and chairs video cams are set up at the polling place, counters to be in place two hours before the close of election, ballots are taken out of the optical scan machine and hand counted/audited at the polling place.


No begging anyone, this needs to be automatic upon request of any voter PERIOD


K&R ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Ok...Gawd, you are a slave driver!
If we are to have these damned machines, then yes, citizen requested hand counts, and at minimum, audits must be free to take place.

We all have evolved somewhat, especially you, kster. I look forward to the day when all of us can agree that your idea should become practice. I'm in. Let's do it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-19-08 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. The media pre-selected which candidates
we get to pick from, before one electronic/mechanical paperless or optical scan machine was used by the voters, it gets scary, these thugs are good, I'll give em that, the INTERNET will get e'm, only a matter of time.

The base in the online poll picked Dennis Kucinich, Gore came in second and he wasn't even running, on the other side Ron Paul was the front runner.

If Their Voices could have been heard on MSM it would have been Dennis Kucinich vs Ron Paul, we were duped before any electronic/mechanical ballot or ballot smuggling machine were used, so yes we have a long, long way to go, but getting our HANDS ON the ballots before the ballots leave the polling place is a start in the right direction.

I'm glad Obama won. but, if he continues to REMAIN SILENT about the counting of Ballots in this country this election was all for nothing. Obama grew up a couple three miles from where I grew up, so he has to have some street smarts.

At least I hope so.

My two cents FWIW.
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
groovedaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
15. The "monkey business" went on in the Congressional/Senate races
not to mention the voter suppression tactics attempted by the repukes.
I still want an auditable, verifiable paper trial. We might just get it now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
16. How's everyone?
Where the hell is everybody? Have I pissed off all yall so badly that you can't even leave a note?

C'mon, check in. Make my day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Great, got my fresh bird today It was like Sara Palin without the cameras
ready to brine it tommorrow and put it in the smoker early thurs, other than that hows things with you?

Ready to Hand Count the Paper Ballots before them ballots leave the polling place?

Have a Happy Thanksgiving. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Yeah man
Guy asked me once if I liked smoked turkey.

I said yeah, I guess I would, if I could ever figure how to get it lit.

Gonna be seeing lots of relatives this year. Gonna spread some liberal love while praising and being thankful for Obama!
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
17. Some of us are too busy with the post-election EI work to post much here...
I'm in that category and I know many others who are as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. looking forward to yall's findings
Thanks for checking in. Best of luck.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Here's where we are so far
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun Dec 21st 2014, 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC