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They Tracked My Early Vote !!

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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 02:21 PM
Original message
They Tracked My Early Vote !!
Went to vote early and what do you know.....

They put a number next to my name on the sign-in. Then they put the same number on my paper ballot.

They can trace me and see who I voted for.

And all this time I thought it was supposed to be a secret ballot.
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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. i'm actually sort of glad because I was 100% sure they just throw early votes away
or don't count them, like absentee ballots. So maybe this is good? but definitely creepy also. sounds kind of illegal.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It does
Sound illegal as can be.

Now I know they can and do trace absentees, they almost have too. But the idea behind early voting is different.

And I am not ashamed at all about my votes. Just that it is now not a secret to the people at the voting office.

Also, put a line trhough the write in places to make sure they didn't make me overvote by their writing in a name.

Sorry, but my trust level just went way down.
If I had the $$ I'd go see a judge.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. Early voting and retrievable ballot
see this webpage, scroll about 1/3 of the way down to this heading:

"Two NC election officials describe early voting and ballot secrecy issues -- "

http://www.ncvoter.net/earlyvoting.html
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PolyD Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Tracking
That's interesting. I'm going to early vote here in Northwest Indiana on Monday. I'm going to be paying very close attention thanks to what you have shared here.

Thanks again from an old lady in Hoosierville.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. You are welcome
And that's why I did this thread, so others will be aware. And next time maybe we put an end to it?

BTW, when I put the ballot down the black-box opt scan, it read the same number back. As ballot # 432. They got me coming and going.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. Did they put the number directly on the ballot? Ours go into a numbered envelope
when they are counted, they are removed from the envelope and put into a pile for counting. Thus, can track who voted, but (in theory) will remove from envelope and put into pile without looking making vote anonymous.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yes
Directly on the ballot.

And right next to my name where I signed the voter roll. They have me, anyone who looks at the ballots and can get the number can see how I voted. Not a secret, by any means.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. That is wrong. Can you contact the electoral board or whatever it is called?
Local place in charge of voting? I'm not sure who all is gathering evidence of voting "irregularities" so will kick for perhaps someone who does know.
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stpalmer Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm worried
My husband and I got our mail-in ballots. They were heavy(and complicated to fill out). The envelope, large and weighty when completed, did not indicate the need for extra postage: It had a small rectangle for postage due. I was pretty sure it was overweight for just one stamp, so I added three. Then I thought some more: What if the postman won't deliver it? The local news reported that democrats were pushing for early and mail-in ballots--maybe the postman was republican? I didn't trust mailing it in, therefore, and went to the county clerk's office. There was an unattended ballot box in the hallway outside of the clerk's office, and I dropped the two ballots in. No one to see, no one to mark it, or number it, or ANYTHING.

What's to stop someone inside from just throwing away my ballot when they empty the box? How do I know my vote will be counted? I live in a city in Colorado that is about 70% Republican, and the person in charge of voting is a republican.

I wish I could be certain my vote counted. I don't feel exhilirated--I feel anxious.
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stpalmer Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Just found out
That postage for the envelope (as per article in today's paper) is 59 cents. So why'd they put one little square on the envelope, letting most people assume that one stamp is enough? No "Extra postage required" or any other indication that a regular stamp won't deliver the ballot.
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. The Post Office announced that they will allow ballots to be mailed with less postage
since most people do not realize that it is more than a regular stamp
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stpalmer Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-08 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. Does this match your experience?
Okay, the absentee ballot was long and confusing... It took about 40 minutes to fill out, trying to go through one issue at a time. The ballot had an obvious tear-off stub at the top, like a receipt stub, only the ballot was vague about whether the voter needed to tear it off, or if it needed to stay intact. I left it intact, in case my vote would be invalidated if it were missing. On any other document, I would be sure it needed to be torn at the perforated line, and kept as proof of my voting. I know lots of voters here in colorado will conclude they need to tear it off, and may not have their vote counted as a result. (Or maybe my vote won't count?)

Also, after I put the ballot in the envelope, there was a place to sign and a perforated flap over that which seemed to beg to be detached. I didn't detach it, but am worried that I was suppose to! If I had detached it, my name and signature would have been exposed on the outside of the envelope.

It seems to me, that if the ballot confused me--a person with a graduate-level education who has been voting for twenty years--it would confuse a lot of other people too!
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Never voted absentee before
May try it next time just to see how it goes. Shame you've had such an experience.
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-19-08 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. Are you certain the number wasn't on the ballot STUB?
It's actually very important that there be a number on the ballot stub that corresponds with a number in the voter signature book. It's a check against fraud, a way to determine ballots that were issued to the voters as a whole are the same ballots that are counted. But the number shouldn't be on the part of the ballot that has your votes on it; it should be on the stub.

Here's how Richard Hayes Phillips, author of Witness To A Crime: A Citizens' Audit of An American Election describes it in his article, "What Constitutes An Election Audit":
Ballot stubs are numbered strips of paper attached to each ballot. The
stub number for each ballot issued, both voted and spoiled, should
be recorded by a poll worker right next to the voters name in both the
poll book, written by the poll worker, and the voter signature book,
signed by the voter. The ballot stub should be torn off and placed into
the ballot box separately, to protect voter privacy and the right to a
secret ballot. The numbers on the torn-off stubs should match the stub
numbers in the poll book and the voter signature book, and the numbers
on the stubs still attached to the unused ballots should not; and all
the stubs, and all the ballots, whether voted, spoiled, or unused,
should be preserved. Without these records there is no way to tell if
the ballots run through the electronic tabulator are the same ballots
issued to the voters.


Given this description, do you now think what was done was correct or not? If incorrect, I'd strongly suggest you contact the election protection hotlines, etc. listed here.
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GuvWurld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-20-08 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Good advice. I would add...
If you still believe you were wronged here, and you may well have been, then I wonder if you know the number that was placed beside your name on the roster? If you have that number that can be used to track how you voted, I suggest going to your local registrar (or equivalent) and asking them to find your ballot based on that number. They shouldn't be able to. If they can, they will understand the problem that has been created and you won't be in a position of attacking the poll worker or even really seeming like your complaining, though you're actually doing both.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Guv
How ya doing?

I won't be asking the officials anything. I might get Galloglassed! the next time if I did. Don't want to cause any more waves than I have, my boats already rocking.

Now, if they ever, ever, let me see the ballots to, ya know, hand count, then I will be able to track my ballot. I'm not worried about who sees my ballot, nothing to hide. I just think it is dirty and goes against the word issued unto me and you. But like so much else, their words are hollow. So, we carry on.

Peace!
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. This is codified into the law. Info on North Carolina Early Voting
The election officials don't unlock the ballot box, go through the ballots, and try to match them up to your early voted ballot application - unless - you have tried to vote twice!

On my webpage, this excerpt from an election officials' comments about early voting:

"The vote is tied to the voter even on optical scan/paper ballots -

we are required to put the ID number on the ballot itself (or enter it into the DRE before the voter votes). The same process is designated on absentee ballots.

The reason for this is that absentee ballots including one-stop voters must be approved by the board and can be challenged by any voter. So at the absentee meeting, if it is determined by the board that the voter is ineligble for whatever reason, the ballot could then be removed.

Also if the voter votes on election day (which shouldn't happen but sometimes does) the absentee or one-stop ballot can then be removed and the vote subtracted so that the voter does not have their ballot counted twice."

more about early voting in North Carolina here
http://www.ncvoter.net/earlyvoting.html

Early voted ballots are counted ON Election Day.


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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Emlev
Thanks. How are ya?

No, it was no stub. It was written directly on the ballot.. an opscan. And the sign in was a printed form with only my name, address, etc on it, and hand written on it was the same number.

Funny, told an insider here about what happened. She said it was wrong but advised I let it alone. Gawd!
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-21-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. It is the law. Your insider doesn't know NC state law on early voting
try emailing the NC State Board of Elections if you don't believe me.

Or check for yourself, NC Election Code is here:
http://www.sboe.state.nc.us/getdocument.aspx?ID=337
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-22-08 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
19. Wouldn't the registrar have to track your absentee ballot to prevent you from voting on 4 Nov? n/t
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. No
I signed in as having voted once. If I came to vote again I'd have to sign in again. That's all the tracking needed. Heck, if not, someone could vote everyday. I see no need to be able to track my ballot, the protection lies with the sign in sheet and if I were to sign in more than once I'd be arrested, eh?
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 03:35 AM
Response to Original message
22. 1Z 349 6AV 03 6384 029 1
Your package is on time with a scheduled delivery date of 11/04/2008
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