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I admit I'm ignorant about the election fraud/voter fraud issues...

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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-08 06:02 AM
Original message
I admit I'm ignorant about the election fraud/voter fraud issues...
I realize it exists, but it has become white noise in the midst of all the other issues this country is facing.

HOWEVER, I recognize I'm remiss in not being more aware in order to counter it, as it is a foundational problem that must be addressed.

A question from a right-leaning friend is prompting my foray into these waters this morning, and I'm hoping some of you will be so kind as to educate me, or point me in the right direction.

I'm aware of the various Republican tactics to suppress voter turnout and corrupt the process, but I don't know how to defend against charges against Democrats.

He specifically asked about the Ohio situation which allows people to vote without a picture ID, requiring only a utility bill. The concern for him is that illegal immigrants (illegal being the key word) can vote. Not sure who else he would be concerned with in this regard.

Thanks in advance. :)
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-08 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. Voter Fraud is a republican contrivance to get folks to think....
...that elections are being stolen by individuals who are voting more than once via a variety of methods. (Google Voter fraud for a number of republican examples.) The Republicans who cry foul try to make it sound like voter fraud is at epidemic levels and is a game changer for elections. The truth is, court cases of individuals perpetrating actual voter fraud are quite insignificant in numbers. Ask your friend to produce more than a thousand cases of actual voter fraud in any state which have been brought to trial over the last two elections. Ask your friend to produce even a hundred convictions from voter fraud.

Unlike voter fraud, election fraud has cost candidates an unknown number of votes, a number likely in the tens of millions or much much higher if voter caging is included. IMO what the current proponents of voter fraud legislation are doing IS a form of election fraud called voter suppression. What they, (the republicans), are really doing when they are screaming about voter fraud is seeking reasons for legislation, laws that make it more difficult for members of the electorate to actually vote. By forcing the voter to jump through new hoops they catch quite a few unaware voters at the polls.

Here is an example of Indiana nuns being disenfranchised by this method: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5960 The nuns were not the real targets of this scam but they made for a nice public splash in the media recently. The true victims rarely get such coverage. The intended targets of this scam are generally minorities from areas which have a history of voting for Democrats

BradBlog has quite a bit on this, for example: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3891 Surf through Brad Blog for more such if you want a pretty good education on this topic. Thom Hartmann has an excellent interview with an author who has a recent book out advocating against voter fraud-he is imo part of the scam and Thom beat up on him pretty good in the interview after-which Thom had a bit more to say to us on the topic. Unfortunately the Thom Hartmann Show archives are unavailable currently because his whole site is down for maintenance. If you like, I'll get you the link to the transcripts as soon as I see it back up. I hope this helps a little...likely by the time I post this there will be others here helping you who have a better handle on this topic than I. Like yourself I am relatively new to all of this and worse waaaay past my bedtime.

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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-08 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. You are very, very kind. Thank you so much!!! n/t
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. An illegal immigrant showing up at a polling place seems unlikely.
Unless right wing radio/TeeVee is the major source of 'news'.

The Bush appointed and now former FEC Commissioner Hans von Spakovsky has gone out of his way to make something of nothing. And he got caught. Not that freepers will have gotten the memo.

See my post here, and read the OP on that thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

The people most likely to have difficulty getting photo ID are the poor, minorities, the elderly, and the disabled. That's the most likely reason repubs call for it.

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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Yes, it's bullshit. I've been registering voters for months
People whose status might look questionable really REALLY don't want to call attention to themselves. A very common response is "We don't really live here. We're just cleaning the house for its owners."
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. Try this...
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. and this...
STEALING AMERICA: Vote By Vote
It's a new film, with a great trailer at the site, and a great action site attached as well.

If your friend will give two minutes a day to learn about the issues, try this:
Daily Voting News
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yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-03-08 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. Sounds like your friend has a problem with George Washington...
as he had neither picture ID nor utility bill.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-08 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
8. Hey, Everyone: Thank you all so very, very much!
Truly...I appreciate it and this stuff is exactly what I need.

Excellent!

:patriot:
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