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OH Audit Report: Kerry's lawyers being run into everywhere

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FullCountNotRecount Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:30 PM
Original message
OH Audit Report: Kerry's lawyers being run into everywhere
Kerry's attorneys from election day are still "nosing around and I keep running into them in places I go" (paraphrasing).

Source: Counselor Petroikas (sp) Election Protection Attorney in Ohio on Election day as he told Cliff Kelley on public affairs program in Chicago WVAZ-FM 6-8 CST Sunday, November 14, 2004.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Actually, with all that money, Kerry should have just asked for
recount in OH and not worry about other things.
If there are really defective punchdards, etc, what exactly is keeping Kerry from asking for a recount?
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TexasChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Uh, how about them finishing the offical count first? n/t
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I have a feeling Blackwell will be counting very slowly.
:eyes:
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TexasChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. He'll have to finish sometime. The Electoral College meets in Dec. n/t
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Well, sure, he will finish by December.
But then it would be too late to recount, wouldn't it?
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Ima Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Yes it would
somebody better be 'snagging' the trash behind his building. It may need to be recycled. IYKWIM
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TexasChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. You're missing the point! A recount is about to be filed by the Green
party. I don't think legally he can stall til December with the offical count. Any candidate has until 5 days to ask for a recount after the offical count of the votes before the Electoral College meets. How can he legally stall until December with that law about a recount in place?
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. You're right, TC, but when has "the law" ever been important to repugnazis
They don't need no steeeenkin' Laws!!! Laws only apply to Dems!!

:kick: :kick:
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TexasChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. loudsue, true, but just think about all the ruckus that has been kicked up
in Ohio. Even Repuketards that voted for Bush want a tally. Dem Ohioans want an official count soon. Katherine Blackwell stalling the offical count til December, to me, seems highly unlikely, especially with all the hearings going on, etc. A recount is very likely, so an official tally will surely come before December.
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life_long_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Katherine Blackwell. Now , that is Funny. eom
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maryallen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. Yeah, since this is just a game ... like basketball.
Strategy:
Get a lead.
Watch the clock.
With 5 minutes to go, get control of the ball and hold on for dear life.
Dribble around your opponents, but don't for any reason, let them have the ball.
If needed, let them foul you, but NEVER foul them ('cause then they get an extra shot).
Slow it down ... real slow now ...
BUZZ.
Game over.

Yeah, I see the parallels ...
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. I believe that federal law provides that all states must
certify to the election by December 6. That is what I recall the constitutional law professor saying on Olberman the other night.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. From what I hear the margin has to be slim (after the initial count) in
order for him to be able to request one?

:shrug:

But, as others have stated ... the COUNT hasn't fully happened yet.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. No, the margin doesn't have to be slim.
The losing candidate can request a recount regardless of the margin. I think you just have to pay more.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Like Cobb is doing...
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I think your right, the candidate has to pay big $ if the margin is wide.
However, as others have noted - a recount can't occur until a "count" does.

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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. the calvary
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. The cavalry rides to the rescue. Calvary is a no-rescue environment.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. Nixon 1960 anybody care to READ what happened then?
You may understand then what Kerry is doing
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TexasChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. nadinbrzezinski, I do. I am totally confused with the Nixon Watergate
thing. I am too young to remember it, but do you have some links to share or can you just give me a hoe down of what happened. I know there was a break in at the Democratic headquarters, but how was it linked to Nixon? Thanks!
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KitSileya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I think she's referring to the fact that Nixon really won in 1960
Kennedy cheated to get votes in certain state, but Nixon refused to challenge the result, saying that to do so would cause a constitutional crisis.
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Roger_Otip Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. That's because Nixon had cheated as well
and if he accused Kennedy then his cheating would come out. Just goes to show that ballot rigging is nothing new.
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Two different animals. In 1960 lost to Kennedy by a slim margin ...

It all came down to Illinois and the election wasn't called until morning. There was talk that the Cook County boxes were stuffed for JFK. Nixon conceded, but worked behind the scenes to try to prove that the Illinois vote was stolen.

Regarding Watergate during the last year of Nixon first term in 1972, you can read a good synopsis at this Washington Post site. (The Post broke the story behind the investigations of Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, back up by editor Ben Bradlee and owner Katherine Graham.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/...
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. This helps
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Trahurn Donating Member (297 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. I remember that
And if you don't think Nixon really thought he had won the election with verifiable proof of wrong doing in the Kennedy camp he wouldn't have tried to move heaven and earth? Why didn't he? It is called sour grapes because he lost by such a slim margin and secondly Nixon's own attempts to artificially influence the election outcome failed.
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mdb Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
26. Did anybody read this?
http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=N...

<snip>
McTigue told a gathering of suburban Democrats that Kerry may recount eight counties of interest, and other candidates may recount the rest of Ohio.
<snip>
McTigue was Dennis Kucinichs campaign treasurer during the Democratic presidential primaries.

This would be nice if Kerry is involved like that.
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mdb Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. It's buried in the article (3rd paragraph from the bottom)
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Great Article
http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=N...


Presidential Election: And so the sorting and discarding of Kerry votes begins
Posted by : DavidSwanson on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 10:49 PM

And so the sorting and discarding of Kerry votes begins
Bob Fitrakis, The Free Press

Are the provisional ballots in Ohio being thrown out?

A new rule for counting provisional ballots in Cuyahoga County, Ohio was implemented on Tuesday, November 9 at approximately 2:30 in the afternoon, according to election observer Victoria Lovegren.

The new ruling in Cuyahoga County mandates that provisional ballots in yellow packets must be Rejected if there is no date of birth on the packet. The Free Press obtained copies of the original Provisional Verification Procedure from Cuyahoga County which stated Date of birth is not mandatory and should not reject a provisional ballot. The original procedure required the voters name, address and a signature that matched the signature in the countys database.

Lovegren described the clerks as kind of disturbed after the new ruling came down. She said that one of the clerks told her, This is new. This just came down. They just changed it in the last thirty minutes. According to Lovegren, 80 yellow-jacketed provisional ballots piled up in the hour and 45 minutes she observed. By Lovegrens tally, three provisional ballots were rejected because the registered voters registration had been cancelled. The rest, she said, were being discarded because of no date of birth.

In 2000, an estimated 9% of Ohios provisional ballots were rejected and not counted, according to Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell. Many election observers are predicting the number will be much higher this year due to directives from Blackwells office.

An earlier analysis in the Free Press of the 155,428 unofficial provisional ballots recorded at the Secretary of States website found that a clear majority, 85,096, came from the 15 counties Kerry won. An additional 17,038 came from urban Hamilton County, home of Cincinnati, and Wood County, where Bush won with 53% and 53.5% respectively. Traditionally, Hamilton Countys provisional ballots are disproportionately cast in the African American majority wards of the central city and not in the affluent Republican-dominated suburbs. Thus, nearly two-thirds (65.7%), or 102,134, provisional ballots come from areas where the provisional ballots are likely to be pro-Kerry.

The official county-by-county board of elections final tally will begin on Saturday, November 13, the 11th day after the election and be completed by the 15th day. Following this canvassing period, 11-15 days after the election, an automatic recount would ensue if the gap between Kerry and Bush narrowed to less than one quarter of one percent, an estimated 16-19,000 votes, depending on how many are actually counted.

During the canvassing, Bush will no doubt lose 3,893 votes from the infamous ward 1B in Gahanna, Ohio where a computer glitch counted 4,258 votes for Bush from 638 voters. But it is unlikely that Kerry will draw within the needed automatic recount margin.

At the end of the canvass, candidates including Kerry have five days to apply for a paid recount, according to election attorney Donald McTigue. McTigue served as U.S. representative Dennis Kucinichs campaign treasurer during the Democratic presidential primaries. The recount would be held within five days, and gives any candidate who applies, Kerry or others, the right to physically inspect the polling place materials including 92,672 ballots that failed to record a vote for President.

Under Ohio law, like Florida law in 2000, the recount can include these ballots, many of them punch cards with the notorious hanging chads and optically scanned ballots where marks may have gone slightly astray but a vote for president is clearly evident.

Overseas ballots postmarked by Election Day and late absentees just prior to the election also remain to be counted. During a recount, candidates may also inspect authorizations to vote, to make sure that the machine tallies are in line with the actual votes cast. They also may examine voter registration forms to argue for improperly rejected provisional ballots.

Local boards of elections may amend election results if obvious mistakes are pointed out. It will cost $10 per precinct in Ohio, or an estimated $120,000, to recount the whole state.

The official tallies are due at the Secretary of States Office by December 1. The Secretary of State must certify the election under Ohio law by December 3.

U.S. representative Dennis Kucinich complained in an article on CommonDreams.org that Dirty tricks occurred across the state, including phony letters from Boards of Elections telling people that their registrations through some Democratic activist groups were invalid and that Kerry voters were to report on Wednesday because of massive voter turnout.

The Free Press, in its November 7 article None dare call it voter suppression or fraud, pointed to possible voting anomalies in Miami County, Ohio where nearly 19,000 new ballots appear to have been added after 100% of the precincts had reported. The additional votes were at virtually the exact same ratio as earlier Bush votes, 65.8% for earlier votes and 65.77% for the latter. Kerrys vote percentage was identical, despite the nearly 19,000 new votes at 33.92%.

Roger Kearney of Rhombus Technologies, Ltd. told the Free Press, The report you saw the following morning at 9 a.m. was probably either the 60 or 80 percent report. Kearneys company is the reporting company for vote results for Miami County; he claims that the problem was not with his reporting and that the additional 19,000 votes came before 100% of the precincts were in.

As for the statistical anomaly that showed virtually identical ratios after the final 20-40% of the vote came in, Kearney offered no explanation and said he merely reports the results given to him.

Miami County reports its votes in 20 percent blocks instead of a continuous running tally. I watch as Steve Quillen, the Board Director, put floppy disks that he had taken from the tabulating computer and put them into the reporting computer. He did this at about 20%, 40%, 60%, 80% and 100% of the count ... I looked at each of these reports. When the final one came out about midnight, we copied the report file onto my floppy disk. I came home and immediately posted it to the website. The page is still on our website exactly as it was shortly after midnight ... No one had access to this computer but me.

Kearney told the Free Press that the software used at the Miami County Board of Elections for counting the votes is from Elections Systems & Software (ES&S). The strong Republican ties of ES&S are well established in the public record. (See for example, Diebolds political machine at motherjones.com).

Such statistical anomalies may be examined if Kerry has the courage to demand a recount, or if other candidates who have legal standing to request a recount are curious. McTigue told a gathering of suburban Democrats that Kerry may recount eight counties of interest, and other candidates may recount the rest of Ohio.

Unless the opportunity is seized, more than 100,000 votes will likely go uncounted, and statistical anomalies and computer glitches will remain unexamined.

--
Bob Fitrakis is a Professor in the Social and Behavioral Sciences Department at Columbus State Community College. He has a Ph.D in Political Science and a J.D. from The Ohio State University Law School. He is the author of seven books, an investigative reporter, and Editor of the Columbus Free Press (freepress.org). He has won ten major investigative journalism awards including Best Coverage of Politics in Ohio from the Ohio Society of Professional Journalists. He served as an international election observer in the 1994 presidential elections in El Salvador and was the co-author and editor of the report to the United Nations. He served as legal advisor for eight polling locations on Columbus' Near East Side for the Election Protection Coalition.

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PeterPan Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. does anyone have a link to the website mentioned
"I came home and immediately posted it to the website. The page is still on our website exactly as it was shortly after midnight ."
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