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Must Read from the Zogby site: " I Smell a Rat "

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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:36 AM
Original message
Must Read from the Zogby site: " I Smell a Rat "
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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. This is excellent, thanks.
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mcg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. 16%
"The results are shocking. Overall, Bush received 2% fewer votes in counties with electronic touch-screen voting than expected. In counties with optical scanning, he received 16% more. This 16% would not be strange if it were spread across counties more or less evenly. It is not. ..."
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. Truth is coming out.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. So Zogby, after some stuporous CYA, can't ignore the stench any
longer and is accepting the fact that he's been scammed (with the rest of us). As I said elsewhere, Jimmy Breslin, Hunter S. Thompson, and John Zogby all knew in their oracular bones which way this was headed.

I, for one, wouldn't want Zogby invested in examining my numbers if I'd won a stolen election. The plot continues to thicken.
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bemis12 Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. That's not a Zogby article
He links up articles that mention the Zogby polls. That's one of them. But it wasn't written by Zogby, or any Zogby employee.
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dmac Donating Member (414 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. what do you mean by this?
I went and examined more articles in this site, and it certainly seemed to be a Zogby site - but then I am unfamiliar with this until recently. I did find this however, alarming - does this mean that they believe DU and other blog sites are responsible for the exit numbers? I think it does . . . .

http://www.zogby.com/soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=10390


So if this is not Zogby's site, whose is it?

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Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Thanks for posting the link...
It looks like Zogby is attempting to be "balanced." However, that little opinion piece is so ludicrous, with its typical right-wing belief that all media outlets except Fox are liberal. And I never fail to be shocked when some slimy Rethuglican has the gall to claim that their candidates are at risk of being defeated by cheating Democrats! Down is up! Black is white! In is out! They really are shameless....
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dmac Donating Member (414 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Thanks for responding . . .
it actually shook me up a bit when I read that. Ludicrous is a good word - and the amazing part is the number of people who believe it. It makes me wonder if somehow part of the country is not susepticle to some form of brainwashing while others are not. I know that sounds extreme but I just find their perspective so devoid of logic and any semblance of reality I do not know what to think.
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Doohickie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
30. It's Zogby's site, but the article is credited to someone else.
He posts articles from other sources that reference him on his web pages.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. No, he didn't write the article
but by posting it on his website, he apparently likes what the writer had to say & found it relevant enough for others to read.

That Zogby posted it on his website says quite a lot about what Zogby's opinion about this election is. Zogby predicted a Kerry win, btw.
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missouri dem Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yes it seems that Zogby is on the case.
He would not have put his credibility on the line by posting this on his website if he did not think something does indeed stink.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yep, having it on his site is a tacit nod that it's a reasonable scenario.
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dmac Donating Member (414 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. and if having it on his site
is a tacit nod, then am I to assume, since this was also posted at this site that it is also a tacit nod?

http://www.zogby.com/soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=10390
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bemis12 Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. LOL- not exactly
As I said, if they mention Zogby and he knows it, he'll post the article. No matter the politics of it.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. Great article - thanks for posting
snip
"The facts as I see them now defy all logical explanations save one--massive and systematic vote fraud. We cannot accept the result of the 2004 presidential election as legitimate until these discrepancies are rigorously and completely explained."
(11/12/2004) - By Colin Shea, The Freezer Box
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TexasChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. TruthIsAll, where do you get this stuff! you're great! n/t
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goldengreek Donating Member (835 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. I don't know what Zogby really thinks about this.
Interesting that he put it on his site, though.
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TeeYiYi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. Good read . . .
"In 30 precincts, more ballots were cast than voters were registered in the county. According to county regulations, voters must cast their ballot in the precinct in which they are registered. Yet in these thirty precincts, nearly 100.000 more people voted than are registered to vote -- this out of a total of 251.946 registrations. These are not marginal differences--this is a 39% over-vote. In some precincts the over-vote was well over 100%. One precinct with 558 registered voters cast nearly 9,000 ballots. As one astute observer noted, it's the ballot-box equivalent of Jesus' miracle of the fishes. Bush being such a man of God, perhaps we should not be surprised."

http://www.zogby.com/soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=10398

Thanks TruthIsAll. :thumbsup:

TYY :kick:
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nodictators Donating Member (977 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. How do DUers get this precinct data?
I've been able to get the Palm Beach and Orange County precinct data. Apparently, the Broward precinct data isn't available . Yet?

Some of the smaller counties that use optical scan machines don't usually post precinct data on the Internet.

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JudyM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. I wonder if the BBV folks have seen this analysis.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
14. Not Zogby - COLIN SHEA and Sadly this article is a bit dated
Sadly this article is a bit dated - the Kathy Dopp simple analysis of voter registrations by party in Florida compared to presidential vote results did not break out past voting patterns - it will still be a valid indicator of theft after such breakout, I think , but the media is saying that since she did not consider this the results just reflect same old same old dixiecrat voting patterns. And the second and last "rat" in the article - Cuyahoga county - turns out to the allocation of absentee ballots for large areas to only one vote total in the list.


http://www.freezerbox.com/archive/article.asp?id=321





I Smell a Rat
BY COLIN SHEA
POLITICS | 11.11.2004


Sources


Dopp, Kathy, Surprising Pattern of Florida's Election Results http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

Hartmann, Thom, Evidence Mounts that the Vote was Hacked http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/110804Z.shtml

Source data for vote tallies at Florida Dept. of State, division of elections (updated Nov 8, 2004) http://enight.dos.state.fl.us /

Source tallies for Florida voter registration (as of Oct 4, 2004) http://election.dos.state.fl.us/voterreg/pdf/2004/2004g...

Cuyahoga County election results http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/currentresults...

CNN exit polls, Florida. Conducted by Edison/ Mitofsky Research. http://us.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/FL...

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Nordic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. compared to what? 2002? 2000?
I don't see anywhere on those charts exactly what years were studied.

For any look at past patterns, you have to throw out 2000 and 2002. Those were also likely fraudulent and cannot be included in an analysis.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. that is a problem - one does not call "normal" a repeat of fraud
but dixiecrat voting for GOP is real, and the media buys the GOP "no fraud" - without a great deal more and better math evidence, the analysis has no legs.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
18. I agree, I think we are victims of massive vote tabulation fraud...
to the point of 4 to 5 millions stolen votes.

I think that whomever is behind this knew it wasn't enough for them
to "squeek by" or win on the margin in one state. They
needed a popular "majority" vote so as to
psychologically suppress any challenge or investigation.
That's why Bush "won" so big in Florida and nationally. It
caused Kerry to cave in early, the Democratic party fold its cards and
sit on its hands, and make those who question the results seem
to be "tin foil hatters".

Well, as far as I am concerned, tin foil is "in" this season.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Tin foil is a classic - it's always in. As long as we're up against this
group. And they've been around fouling the air since before I was born.
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ailsagirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
20. Fantastic-- Zogby is one
of the few pollsters who's reliable and respected.

Forget anything you hear from Gallup-- their CEO is Republican.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. No, Zogby didn't write this, but he lends credence to this view
of things just be putting it up. Even though he posts articles with opposing views, he's letting it into the conversation, which defies the Repub's disintegrating efforts to NOT let it be talked about, at all.

Further, this article defies the R's backup position that the fraud issue is just for fevered internet conspiracy theorists (new acronym: FICTs?) by presented a well-considered perspective.
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
26. Oh my God, the Republicans are destroying democracy at home
This is really serious folks.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
28. This was posted last week already
duped here
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
29. Old news
Everything in here has already been debunked. Early exit polls were screwed up because they oversampled women. Counties in Florida with unusually high numbers of Democrats voting for Bush were DINO's that have been voting Republican for years. There's nothing new here.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. LOL!! Nice try.
:D :D :D :D :+ :+ :+ :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:

:kick:
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Wow
What a measured, logical argument you've produced to rebut every point I brought up. Thanks.

</sarcasm>
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