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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:28 AM
Original message
IMPORTANT..... Will someone please look???
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 03:32 AM by shraby
Go here and put your mouse over the Diebold entries.

<http://www.checksum.org/mla/7/message/7993.htm >
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ogradda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. my heart is pounding.
n/t
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Do you know how to screen capture?
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ogradda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. dammit no i don't
you could go to the computer help forum and ask.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Press "Print Screen" on your keyboard
Then open the program called "Paint" and Then "Paste" into the program.

To run "Paint", go to Start, All Programs, Accessories, then "Paint".
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TexasChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
33. If your using a PC, press "Alt+Print Screen" at the same time then open
up Microsoft Word and paste it. It will paste as a bitmap. Or, you could open up a graphics program and paste the image in that as well.
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Kralizec Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. I have heard a little on GEMS...
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 03:34 AM by Kralizec
are these people talking in the emails supposed to be programmers for the voting machines or something? Forgive me, I skimmed.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. Great find!
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:39 AM
Response to Original message
7. If you are on a windows system...
...press your PrntScr button, then go to an email message, word, or an image program (like photoshop). In an email or word, do CNTRL-V for Paste. In photoshop, first do File | New hit OK and then CNTRL-V for paste. It will take your entire desktop as a screenshot.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Can you do it? We have to have it
and I'm not sure I can.
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TexasChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
34. shraby, you can do it if your using a PC. Look at my post above:
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. I don't get this
How important is it?
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. It shows backdoors to Diebold programs
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liam97 Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. THis looks like a list of threads
I don't know if it makes sense to read each of them
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
32. What's your point?
It's a bunch of people discussing the back doors into the GEMS tabulator that we've known about here since early 2003.

Bev taught Howard Dean how to do it on A-Topic on MSNBC a while ago and then put together a film of Baxter the Chimp editing the audit log of an election using one of the back doors. DUers distributed 100's of copies of the Jim March 'Hack a Vote' CD to every member of Congress.

Am I missing some significance to this? :shrug:
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
10. Those are bugtraq emails that have been mirrored all over the place
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Kralizec Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. these are just floating around?
I don't understand why things like this would be floating around? There is some pretty telling stuff in there...

How, exactly, is this just floating around...
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lucabrasi Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Bug reporting mailing lists...
Anyone can download GEMS, it has been available in some form online for awhile now, in fact you can grab a copy at http://blackboxvoting.org /

Bugtraq is a bug reporting mailing list where people can report problems with software. So get a few geeks playing around with GEMS and a well known mailing list and their discussions show up all over the place.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Thanks
I thought I found something there for a minute.
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m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
13. hey shraby
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 03:51 AM by m berst
I can capture it all for you if you like.

Do you know what you are seeing there?

on edit - I just read the entire thing.
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NamVetsWeeLass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
14. ummm Look at your GD post, I included a Screen shot there
Edited on Sun Nov-14-04 03:51 AM by NamVetsWeeLass
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Thank you, but I guess they are all over the place.
Just the first time I've seen them.
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m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
17. the thread there
The thread there is a discussion by programmers about Diebold code in particular and electronic voting in general. It isn't really evidence, but it is pretty chilling reading.
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sherilocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. I was just going to post that
These are programmers discussing electronic voting issues.

I loved this quote:

">"Bill Gates reports on security progress made and the challenges ahead."
>-- Microsoft's Homepage,

on the day an SQL Server bug crippled large
> sections of the Internet."

Computer programers have been discussing computer voting issues for years. There are articles in their professional magazines going back for decades. This is not a new issue.
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Starfury Donating Member (615 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:56 AM
Response to Original message
19. Not sure this is anything new
I think they're talking about the "2-digit" backdoor that was reported a while back by BBV.

http://www.checksum.org/mla/7/message/7547.htm



>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 00:38:05 -0400

>Subject: http://www.blackboxvoting.org/?q=node/view/78

>
>BlackBoxVoting.org reported a vulnerability in the Diebold GEMS central tabulator.

>
>A local authenticated user can enter a two-digit code in a certain "hidden"
location

>to cause a second set of votes to be created on the system. This second set of votes


>can be modified by the local user and then read by the voting system as legitimate

>votes, the report said.

>
>GEMS 1.18.18, GEMS 1.18.19, and GEMS 1.18.23 are affected.

>
>The vendor was reportedly notified on July 8, 2003.

>

>
>Solution: No vendor solution was available at the time of this entry.

>
>Vendor URL: www.diebold.com/dieboldes/GEMS.htm (Links to External Site)

>
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. kick
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YellowDoginthehouse Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
21. When you run your mouse over
it gives you the title of the thread.

These folks look like a great resource for computer programming questions, though.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
22. Link not working anymore
?

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sherilocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. My link is working fine
It's not what you think it is. Nothing there except a lot of good points by programmers.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Thanks, it's working now
the site must have been getting overloaded.

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Roger_Otip Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
24. these people know their stuff
it's worth reading some of the posts there. here's one:

There's so much debate for one simple reason. All the known solutions
have been ignored. This is why everyone is getting so upset on this
issue. Companies like Diebold have ignored all the previous work on
this subject, work done by people like Bruce Schneier. They've ignored
all the problems with their system, up to and including their complete
lack of verifiability. They're already, in a rather short history in
this field, shown a complete lack of accountability (think the various
unapproved revisions that got them sued in California).
That they've been so determined to weasel around the _known_ solutions
to these issues casts a great deal of suspicion on them. Their
continued resistance to even the simplest fixes, combined with their
repeated denials of any problems, is only making things worse.

Unfortunately, I don't see any major changes to this happening until
some state's electoral votes go to CowboyNeal or Bill the Cat...

http://www.checksum.org/mla/7/message/7848.htm
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. It is interesting reading and if a voter and/or a state were to
sue Diebold for violations of the contract to provide adequate voting equipment, it appears that these would be evidence that Diebold was aware of the problems and was not able to fix them, though they had promoted their product as "fool proof".
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bearfan454 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
29. Holy shit !
Send this to news agencies all over the planet.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
30. Now look at the names in the "from" box . Now we need to find out if these
are legit employees of Diebold.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
31. Let me update your elections results thru my INTERNET connections
If someone would of told me they were going to do this a few years back........... well you know, it's just unbelievable but you can see for yourself that it's true :wtf:
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Donailin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
35. It's a message board or email group.
Look what this post says about the voting process. IOW, these are professional hackers saying that there's no way they'd trust a "black box" machine that has potential backdoors.


>>Bugtraq < messageid #7608 >
Date 2004-09-22 14:09:21
From Hollis Johnson
Subject Re: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS) Backdoor Account Allows Authenticated Users to Modify Votes
related subject(s)

2004-09-22 14:09:21 Re: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS) << (current)
2004-09-22 14:03:54 RE: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)
2004-09-24 12:20:55 Re: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)
2004-09-24 07:01:59 Re: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)
2004-09-26 19:44:42 Re: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)
2004-09-27 07:35:22 RE: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)
2004-09-27 07:01:14 RE: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)
2004-09-27 00:59:21 Re: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)
2004-09-28 10:22:34 Re: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)
2004-09-27 15:39:22 Re: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)
2004-09-28 12:01:41 RE: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)
2004-09-28 17:46:36 Re: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)
2004-09-28 18:16:04 Re: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)
2004-09-28 18:56:49 Re: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)
2004-09-27 17:15:12 Re: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)
2004-09-28 20:12:11 Re: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)
2004-09-28 23:55:08 RE: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)
2004-09-28 09:29:15 Re: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)
2004-09-27 22:32:09 RE: Diebold Global Election Management System (GEMS)


This is what scares me:

"A Maryland county court yesterday rejected a challenge to the use of
electronic voting machines that sought to allow voters to opt out of using
the technology."

No option !!

Source:
http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/st...
heads

At 01:21 PM 9/22/2004 -0500, Homer wrote:
>On Tue, 2004-09-21 at 10:05, pressinfo@diebold.com wrote:
> > In-Reply-To: <20040831203815.13871.qmail@www.securityfocus.com >
> >
> > Diebold strongly refutes the existence of any "back doors" or
"hidden
> > codes" in its GEMS software. These inaccurate allegations appear to
> > stem from those not familiar with the product, misunderstanding the
> > purpose of legitimate structures in the database. These structures
> > are well documented and have been reviewed (including at a source code
> > level) by independent testing authorities as required by federal
> > election regulations.
>
> And the reason that something this critical isn't open source so that
>*everyone* that wants to audit it can is? There is no way I will use one
>of those to process my vote till it has been proven to not have back
>doors. Independent testers are nice, but not enough to prove beyond a
>doubt that there are no hidden entries, and that 1 + 1 still = 2 in your
>calculations. Especially with the way this election year is going, I
>don't trust *anyone*. Just my 2 cents worth.
>
>--
>Homer Parker /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign
>BOFH for homershut.net \ / No HTML/RTF in email
>http://www.homershut.net x No Word docs in email
>telnet://bbs.homershut.net / \ Respect for open standards
>
>"Bill Gates reports on security progress made and the challenges ahead."
>-- Microsoft's Homepage, on the day an SQL Server bug crippled large
> sections of the Internet.






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