Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get near Boston.

[madfloridian]

And other posts about the fiasco of the Florida primary vote. It is going to hurt all of us in the long run, but it was deliberately thought out, planned, and cultivated with the GOP in Florida. The Florida Democrats did it to themselves.

The most telling thing was that McAuliffe was going to take Michigan's delegates in 04. But no one heard a word much about it, and he was not condemned, he was not sued. He was lauded. How odd that when Dean does the same thing...he IS condemned and sued.

I seldom post in this forum, but I will when I see propaganda being spread. I think Bob Moser's Nation column is terribly one-sided as posted in another post here.

Here is a summary of what I have written on the subject, because the media, the Florida bloggers, and many here are still putting the blame on the one who is following rules.

Yes, it will hurt us, but no, it is not the fault of the DNC.

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a "voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Pelosi says it is not Florida's fault at all. So if the speaker says it I must be wrong.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

[blm]

1. This is the Clinton wing of the party trying to get Dean pushed out any way they can

and since the state chairs supported Dean's chairmanship they think they can make Dean unpopular state by state in this way.

No doubt about it. We saw this coming before the Nov 2006 election - and after they failed pushing him out when they wanted to then, they chose a different tact.

[madfloridian]

4. This forum goes against anything DNC....but I had to speak up.

Florida is acting cowardly, fearful of saying they did the wrong thing. They will let Dean be the fall guy rather than own up to their mistakes.

This post will not get favorable responses in this election forum, but truth is truth wherever.

[blm]

6. I think you posted a concise overview of what's going down.

You're being kinder than I am about the perpetrators. IMO, they are protecting the powerful "machines" who want the DNC run their way and who will manipulate anything they can to achieve it. Just as they ran the DNC from 1993-2005. Right into the ground for any Democrat not part of their 'machine'.

[madfloridian]

7. Thanks for the support on my post.

I seldom get that nor do I expect it.

The propaganda surrounding this issue has been amazing. Only one Florida blogger has had the courage to even begin to question Florida's side. I believe many of the bloggers were in meetings with the party just before all this occurred.

DailyKos and OpenLeft also blasted the DNC, even though it was Florida's fault.

It shows the power of a group within our party.....total ultimate power.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

3. To whom are you directing the word "retarded". Inquiring minds want to know.

.

[madfloridian]

5. Again....to whom is the word "retarded" directed?

You said:

"what?
retarded "

[madfloridian]

8. Why didn't anyone get mad at Terry?

Just asking.

[madfloridian]

9. One Florida blogger said they broke the rules on purpose to force change.

And somehow he linked back to my post saying Dean supported regional rotating primaries. Just think of the irony. Admitting they broke the rules on purpose, then linking to one of my posts to prove their point.

I don't know if that is sad or just weird.

Dean has said often through the years the primary system needed changing, and they added two more diverse states pre-window this time.

But at least some in Florida are admitting they were wrong, and it did give my post a lot of hits.

VPR: "Dean supports rotating regional presidential primaries"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

They are suing him and trying to crash his fundraising, and going so far as to taunt and humiliate him.....even though he approves of change by 2012.

Go figure.

But the post saying Dean is causing election fraud is still getting the attention. Makes sense, doesn't it?

[madfloridian]

10. Here is the only Florida blogger whom I have seen who has questioned.

Things were not as rosy at the convention as they appeared. Dave picked on some stuff.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

" heard alot about how useful the Netroots are in getting the message out for the Party or a campaign. Many speakers talked about how to get bloggers to spread the campaign message to further widen the reach of the given message. A couple speakers even said they actually send talking points to 10 or 12 bloggers around the state to imbed them into the netroots dialogue...a useful strategy. Others spoke about how to utilize the grassroots organizations on the ground to do most of the door to door campaigning on behalf of the goven DEC...an effective way to save campaign dollars for other uses.

What was kind of disturbing, is what I did not hear. There was much talk of how the net/grass roots can help the Party, but no talk of the other way around...what they can do for the net/grass roots. No talk of how what we say in blogs or discuss in our groups or DEC meetings around the state will be acted upon...it was a definite feeling that we are their tools and work for them as oposed to the other way around. To me, this highlights a major problem within our political system that we see as a recurring theme: Our representatives forget that they work for us, and fail to listen...the war, health care, and global warming are but 3 examples of our cries for help falling on deaf ears This remains true with the Party as a whole, it seems, and we must continue to work to change this!"

Amen, David, and thank you.

I feel bad the election forum agrees the DNC is committing election fraud. That is the impression I am getting. That's a shame, and I imagine I will once again banish myself from here.

[madfloridian]

11. Florida, the state that will have to fight to teach evolution in science class..

is vindicated from all wrong by The Nation and by the election forum.

The DNC which funds the state party's new political directors, over 300,000....is said to be committing election fraud.

Could someone please tell me how I am supposed to believe that?

[madfloridian]

12. A kick for a party whose chairman is trying to enlarge its base....

and who is getting nothing but grief and being said to be doing election fraud.

I feel sick.

[kster]

13. The DNC is speechless, Dennis Kucinich, NOT SO MUCH

http://blip.tv/file/82767

[madfloridian]

15. That is NOT what this is about.

It is about false accusations being made about the party chairman.

It is not about paper ballots and BTW Dean does approve of them. Kucinich is not the only one approving of them.

Florida had Dean so busy in court, he can't worry about that. Congress will have to do that.

That is not what the post was about.

[Bill Bored]

32. That doesn't matter to kster!

He's on auto-pilot!

"Paper Ballots.....Paper Ballots.....Paper Ballots....Paper Ballots...."

[madfloridian]

33. lol

That made me chuckle. I tend to agree, since he seems unaware of the topic.

[mzmolly]

14. Recommending for you MF.

[madfloridian]

16. Thank you, mzmolly

This issue has only been covered in a one-sided way. I have to live with this stuff here, and I have a passion about getting the truth out.

[madfloridian]

17. Michigan just lost its delegates also.

They tried to blame it on their Republican legislature as well. But the governor who signed it gladly and openly, is a Democrat.

Both states broke the rules, they did it on purpose, and blaming the DNC is a dishonest way of behaving.

I am very angry that misinfo in a subject line is still standing. And by a poster who posts at Op Ed News and should have enough background to know better than to accuse a party of election fraud.

Could someone post what this forum considers to be the meaning of elction fraud?

[Admiral Loinpresser]

18. A big K&R

for the Saturday morning crowd.

[ohio2007]

19. Does the DNC decide how the votes will fall ? seems they took the voice of the people

away from those who contributed to the party.

[madfloridian]

20. No, the states did it to themselves.

They did it deliberately with full knowledge of what they were doing.

[knitter4democracy]

24. From what I'm hearing, we broke Republican rules, but the GOP's seating us.

Most Dems up here are talking about voting Republican in the primary and then maybe even in the general. A lot of independants are upset with how Dean has handled this (most of the candidates boycotting us isn't helping) and are talking of voting Republican.

Michigan's a swing state. We're barely blue. From what I'm hearing, we're leaning red this time in frustration and anger over all of this crap. The average Dem doesn't understand what's going on and just takes it as a slap in the face of our state, already an economic mess.

I get it. Levin messed up. Our top leadership played chicken and lost. Still--is it worth losing the state in the general over?

[madfloridian]

25. Whatever makes you happy. You sound like I did it.

Just remember that the rules were made last year, both FL and MI knew exactly what they were doing. Michigan and Florida both knew exactly what they were doing.

If Dean did not enforce the rules he would be looked at with contempt.

It's a no win situation for him and the DNC. Two states needed to feel important, and they are now for sure.

The GOP is taking delegates away also, BTW.

[knitter4democracy]

28. No, of course not. I'm just trying to tell what most people up here think.

Michigan's top tier Dems knew what they were doing. The rest of us had no clue. That's how the party works in this state--a special few are in the know, and the rest of us are just used for grunt work and definitely aren't listened to.

The average voters I talk with are really ticked off. They don't understand what's going on, they don't understand why our Dem leadership did this, and they're mad at all of the Dems. I'm just sayin', it's not looking good up here for the primary or the general.

Oh, and at least the Republicans are campaigning here, unlike the Dems. They had a debate here that got lots of press, they're raising all kinds of money, and they're getting their message out. The Dems aren't. Their delegates might run into trouble with getting seated, but they're going to get votes.

I understand why Dr. Dean made the choice he did, and I'm furious that our Dems were so amazingly stupid, but now I'm just mad at all of them for tipping our state Republican over some stupid in-fighting thing that could cost us the election.

[madfloridian]

30. Many Floridians are angry as I am, but there is no voice for them.

The party, the bloggers, the media, even The Nation..only present one side.

It has been so frustrating.

[knitter4democracy]

35. Amen to that. We Michiganders feel the same way.

Why are all of the media sources making it sound like all of Michigan's Dems wanted this? I don't know anyone who did.

[Demeter]

26. Gov. Granholm is a DLC Democrat

and I'm beginning to think the C stands for Clinton.

[knitter4democracy]

29. She's already endorsed Hillary.

Granholm's a decent governor, though, with a terrible economic situation and set of Republican leaders she has to deal with. I often don't agree with her decisions, but I can understand that she's between a rock and a hard place.

[Demeter]

31. I Support Her--Just Wish She Didn't Support Hillary

I think it folly to come out and endorse a Presidential candidate. No current office holder ought to do so. The endorsement should come after or during the Nominating Convention.

[knitter4democracy]

34. I agree. I remember being upset she backed Kerry.

I don't know why she does that, actually. Then again, I don't know why our party leadership does half of what it does.

[madfloridian]

21. Recent statements by Dean on this issue.

VPR: "Dean supports rotating regional presidential primaries"

""Dean says he's not issuing threats - he's merely sticking to the rules of the Party:

Dean: "The rules say that (which were agreed to by Florida) that Florida would go on the fifth of February. They chose not to do that so they get sanctioned- that's not a surprise. I'm not carrying out a threat, it's not ‘us against Florida'. The rules are very clear: once you set the primary schedule, once everybody agrees to it, it has to stay intact because every state of course feels that they're the most important state."

He told Florida he had to stand up for all 50 states, that was his job.

[Mabus]

22. Thanks for the update madfloridian

and to helping bring some truth to the discussion.

I k&r'ed yesterday but I'd do it again if I could.

[tbyg52]

23. K&R

The Florida party was told exactly what the rules were and exactly what would happen, and when they broke the rules and it happened they threw a tantrum. Sounds like some teenagers I've seen....

[PassingFair]

27. K & R.

Please keep us updated.

Thanks for your chronicles.

They will come in useful.