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FL CD-13: Hacked or just unlucky for Democrats?

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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 11:35 PM
Original message
FL CD-13: Hacked or just unlucky for Democrats?
About 400 votes separates the candidates and the DREs were dropping votes on the summary screen. No one knows why (but of course we have our suspicions). Keep an eye on this one folks!

The race was not properly labeled on some machines either.

Here's one account:
http://www.votersunite.org/article.asp?id=6726

Voting glitch prompts warning
By TODD RUGER

[email protected]

SARASOTA COUNTY Poll workers are to remind every voter to look out for the 13th Congressional District race on the electronic ballot after at least four people complained that their initial votes for Democrat Christine Jennings weren't recorded.

Sarasota County Supervisor of Elections Kathy Dent gave the order by e-mail, calling it "critical." She told the Herald-Tribune she believes a very small number of the 24,000 early voters overlooked the 13th Congressional District race because it "is sandwiched in between the Senate and the governor's race."

Dent said her office will review ballot design on the county's touchscreen voting machines to see if the problem can be avoided in the future, but added that more voters correctly fill out touchscreen ballots than paper ballots.

The county uses a paperless touchscreen voting system, and a number of high-profile glitches around the state and nation have added to some voters' inherent distrust of touchscreen voting.

-snip-
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. That was one heck of a story at the link.
snip

She said she almost hit the "vote" button before her eye caught the review page warning that that no vote had been recorded in that race.

snip

A recount looking at undervotes and overvotes would only be triggered if the total votes in that first recount are within a quarter of a percentage point.

snip

:grr:

There's nothing tooooo recount.

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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
80. If fraud is proven in this race, will they go back and look at the many counties
that had similar switching to blank and large undervotes in Florida in 2004, and in the Florida Attorney Gen. race in 2006 that had several counties with high undervotes, and 3 counties with higher undervotes than in Sarasota Dist 13 race?

There was lots of this documented in Ohio in 2004 as well. See links below.


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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #80
92. What is the punishment for Colusion/Malfeasance by the SOE/SOS in approving obviously biased ballot
design that was used on many of the touch screens in many precincts, as confirmed by voters and poll workers.

Affidavits of voters and poll workers confirmed that obviously flawed ballot designs were used that clearly had bias against the Dem candidate, and that they were approved by the Repub SOE and SOS in a race where the Repub candidate Buchanan was behind in the polls. Isn't this obvious colusion/malfeasance and isn't this at least a felony offense-
punishable by jail time,etc.?

Voters pollworkers at a hearing in Sarasota confirmed the following ballot designs that had clear bias, recognizable to any person with common sense, but surely to professionals who were familiar with similar problems in the butterfly ballat design that swung thousands of Gore votes in 2000 in several counties.

Has there been discussion of whether election results can or should be reversed when there is obvious collusion/bias in ballot designs chosen by partisan SOEs that has a clear impact on changing the results of an election?


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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
2. Obviously hacked; another stolen Florida election
here's an email from a voter:
Sarasota County District 13 has a big voting scandal brewing.
Voting machines county wide did not show Dem Christine Jennings on electronic voting machine screens at all, or when voters selected Jennings, the page dissappeared. This was apparently occuring even 10 days ago, during early voting!

At least 100's of people tried but COULD NOT vote for Dem, Jennings.

Repub. opponent Vern Buchanan right wing repub, (he got George AND Laura Bush and Cheney to attend rallies to support himin Sarasota!) is claiming victory with only 356 more votes than Jennings. In fact, he was declared winner, before it transpired that 56,000 votes and the Early Voting results had not even been counted yet....

It is apparent that possibly 1000;s of votes for Jennings are gone forever.

This is well supported by many people I know, and has been reported, if poorly, in the paper -Sarasota herald tribune, and on local radio stations.

Can you investigate this problem further please?

This is a key race, as Buchanan is a real right wing extremist, fought a horrible dirty fight in the primary, and is under investigation for shady financial dealings/bogus bankruptcy claims locally. He is the area's (huge) largest Ford car dealer, former head of the Fl Chamber of commerce, and has an iffy bussiness reputation. A lot of money went into this campaign. And of course it is the infamous Dsit 13, Katherine Harris' former seat.
**************
Apparently the voting pattern in Sarasota County, FL is very unusual - an unusually high undervote rate that may have wrongly altered a race in FL.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Douglas W. Jones <[email protected]>
Date: Nov 8, 2006 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: FL problems continue - Katherine Harris legacy of voting fraud continues in her district
To: [email protected]

> This is from a friend of mine in Sarasota where the race to replace
> Katherine Harris has taken a turn towards the weird.
>
>> Sarasota County District 13 has a big voting scandal brewing.
>>
>> Our supervisor of elections Kathy Dent is not recognising any
>> problem on the voting. She is calling it "Undervoting" and shrugging
>> it off.

A reporter just called, he said that Dent's office sent out an E-mail
to all precinct election officials asking them to remind people not
to forget to vote in the District 13 race. This implies that she was
aware of a problem -- or at least aware of a significant underevote.

Doug Jones
[email protected]

----
Kathy Dopp
http://electionarchive.org
National Election Data Archive
Dedicated to Accurately Counting Elections
Subscribe to announcements by emailing [email protected]
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. Election Supervisor suggests voters may not be interested in Cong. race-didn't bother to vote
In FL, Electronic Voting Shortfall Raises Eyebrows
By Paul Kiel - November 8, 2006, 11:03 AM
A recount battle is brewing, fittingly, in Katherine Harris' old seat, where a voting shortfall on buggy electronic voting machines is calling the election results into doubt.
From The Herald Tribune:
Republican Vern Buchanan was clinging to a 368-vote edge over Democrat Christine Jennings for the 13th Congressional District early this morning.
Although Buchanan declared victory just before 1 a.m., the razor-thin margin kept Jennings from conceding defeat and will generate an automatic recount....
The results were loaded with controversy as nearly 13 percent of all ballots cast in Sarasota didn’t include a choice for Congress. That difference, and scattered reports of difficulty finding the race on Sarasota’s touchscreen ballots, raised concerns about under votes in the race.
Supervisor of Elections Kathy Dent couldn’t explain why 8,000 to 10,000 fewer people voted in the congressional race than in other high-profile races for governor, attorney general or U.S. Senate. But she said nothing mechanical went wrong with the county’s $4.7 million touchscreen voting machine system....
Throughout the day voters complained that touchscreen voting machines were not registering votes for Jennings properly. Jennings campaign held a midday press conference to warn the problem was widespread....
Already Democrats were calling in lawyers from the Democratic National Committee to weigh in on the potential voting issues....
In Sarasota County, with all but one precinct reporting, 87,797 people voted for Bill Nelson, Katherine Harris or another candidate for U.S. Senate. In the governor race between Charlie Crist and Jim Davis, 87,678 county resident voted.
Only 76,549 voted for Jennings or Buchanan. In comparison, about 3,000 more people voted in the Sarasota Public Hospital Board election.
But a similar undervote was not recorded in other counties that voted in the District 13 race.
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adamuu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. i know isn't that ridiculous?
what does she think we're stupid?
recommend to keep the issue on the front burner
though.. there are at least 3 thread about this already
this is a good summary thread.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. There is evidence from election officials that what Dent says is not true
that there was extremely widespread irregularities that poll workers and Dent were aware of.
That is a matter of record.
But this is not something new. There were similar problems in 2004, but the races didn't turn out as close and didn't get as much attention. Dent was confronted at that time and said it was not something worth worrying about. That no system is perfect. But its interesting that the systematic problems in both years favored her parties candidates.

I am aware of evidence from officials(which I have a copy of). Some reference can be found in the Herald Tribune followup.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #24
44. Lots of undervotes in Sarasota in 04, but hugely more in 06
That this was inevitable was predicted and debated in 04, with lots of warnings, such as the following.
Some activists have been working on it since and passed a measure to replace the E machines in Sarasota by 2008.

From: Charlie Strauss
Sent: Nov 8, 2006 10:02 PM

Subject: Re: : FL problems continue - Katherine Harris legacy of voting fraud continues in her district

Of course the same sort of thing happened in 2004 in sarasota
http://www.votersunite.org/info/content/mess-up_111804.asp

At that time they reviewed their decision and decided no paper trails were necessary because the accuracy was "one vote wrong in a million".

A paragon of logic, "Dent also told commissioners her staff and the vendor does not have access to the system's source code, so manipulation of the machines is impossible. said that because she does not have access to the source code, her staff could not be rigging the machines." (someone has access to the source code)

http://www.verifiedvotingfoundation.org/article.php?id=1989

Activists pleaded with Dent to at least add a printer to the system so they could have a paper trail. Dent objected saying she could never attach any piece of equipment to the system since it would be uncertified.

"I can't defy the laws of the state of Florida," Dent said. "It's not as simple as going down to Office Depot and buying a printer and attaching it to the machine. I can't use something that hasn't been certified."

Then when it was shown conclusively by Election Supervisor Suarez that the machines all had a software bug that could, provably, change the election logs and even corrupt the vote read out, they decided to fix this by connecting uncertified laptops running windows software. She also dismissed the problem as being only in the flash cards--y'know the ones that hold the votes.

http://www.verifiedvotingfoundation.org/article.php?id=2407

And so today we have a case where "vote tallies showed there was still a large number of undervotes in the Jennings-Buchanan race -- with a more than 18,000-vote difference between the total number of ballots cast in Sarasota County and those cast in the 13th race. The race may ultimately be decided by fewer than 400 votes."
http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061108/NEWS/611080885


Throughout the day, dozens of people complained that their votes in the 13th Congressional District were not recorded properly. One volunteer election watcher said he heard dozens of such complaints.


But dent did not consider the numerous reports of machines malfunctioning as relevant: She explained the massive unprecedented discrepancy with a wave of the hand
"Why there's a discrepancy, I couldn't tell you," Dent said. "I heard from a lot of people that didn't care for either candidate."
"I personally undervoted in that race. I don't normally tell people how I vote."


(do you believe her given the history of other things she's said on such?) Why would this be true only in her jurisdiction but not in the same race in the similar county next door that has opti-scans?




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Votergater Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-14-06 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #44
71. Ms. Dent is ignorant or lying
about the source code issue. Of course the vendor (ES&S) has access to their own source code, but manipulation of the machines does not require having the source code, there are simpler direct ways to affect the system. It seems to me this is one of the most important the kinds of misinformation that has to to be exposed, so people can truly understand the risks with these systems.

>>>A paragon of logic, "Dent also told commissioners her staff and the vendor does not have access to the system's source code, so manipulation of the machines is impossible. said that because she does not have access to the source code, her staff could not be rigging the machines." (someone has access to the source code)<<<
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
45. Analysis of Undervotes in New Mexico’s 2004 Presidential Ballots- what caused?
Edited on Sat Nov-11-06 01:22 AM by philb
High undervotes in Presidential race in minority precincts on touch screens but not on opti-scans
Was this due to minorities not understanding how to vote on touch screens?
or minorities not being interested in the Presidential race?
or rigged(switch to blank) touch screens?
or unreliable touch screens?

http://gnosis.python-hosting.com/voting-project/January.2005/att-0005/NMAnalysis_EL_JM.doc.pdf


If you suggest unreliable, why would this only affect one race and one candidate???

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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. Polls showed Jennings far ahead? But how to recount paperless ballots?
November 6th, 2006 7:30 pm
Fla. Candidate Battles the Anti-GOP Tide
House Hopeful in Heavily Republican District Tries to Rally Disenchanted Voter Base
By Michael Grunwald / Washington Post
BRADENTON, Fla., Nov. 4 -- Vern Buchanan is the Republican congressional candidate in this heavily Republican district, hoping to succeed a onetime GOP icon, Rep. Katharine Harris. The self-made businessman has given his campaign $5.5 million, the third-largest cash dump in the history of House races. He has campaigned with President Bush, first lady Laura Bush, Gov. Jeb Bush and Vice President Cheney; today's guest was former New York mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani.
But he's still in trouble.
Buchanan's own polls show him slightly behind Christine Jennings, a fiscally conservative Democrat who was once Buchanan's banker, and Jennings's polls show him 11 points behind
September 18, 2006
Jennings Beating Buchanan?
An internal poll for Democratic Congressional District 13 candidate Christine Jennings, suggests the tough GOP primary to succeed Katherine Harris took a real toll on Republican Vern Buchanan. The 9/8-12 Hamilton Beattie poll of 500 likely voters in the heavily Republican district shows Jennings leading 46 percent to 38 percent (48 percent to 30 among independents). From the pollster's memo:
*******************************************


A recent poll revealed that Christine leads Buchanan among likely voters 52% to 41%. (10/24/06)
http://www.actblue.com/page/christine
********************************************************
The Cook Political Report is a non-partisan,
online analysis of electoral politics (note that he was very accurate)

November 6, 2006
• Going into Election Day, we see a 20-35 seat gain for Democrats in the House, a four to six seat gain for Democrats in the Senate and a six to eight seat gain for Democrats in the governor's races.
All Monday there was considerable talk that the national picture had suddenly changed and that there was a significant tightening in the election. This was based in part on two national polls that showed the generic congressional ballot test having tightened to four (Pew) and six (ABC/Wash Post) points.
Seven national polls have been conducted since Wednesday, November 1. They give Democrats an average lead of 11.6 percentage points, larger than any party has had going into an Election Day in memory. Even if you knock five points off of it, it's 6.6 percentage points, bigger than the advantage that Republicans had going into 1994.

• HOUSE RATINGS CHANGES:
AZ-01 Renzi Lean Republican to Toss Up
FL-13 Open Lean Democratic to Toss Up (Jennings/Buchanan)
ID-01 Open Lean Republican to Toss Up
IN-07 Carson Solid Democratic to Likely Democratic

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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. TIA's poll numbers
          
FL 13    

D   R    Earliest Poll
49  47    

D    R   Latest Poll 
49   47     

D      R   Expected Results
51.4  48.6          
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. Headed for a recount
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2640665

By PHIL DAVIS

SARASOTA, Fla. Nov 9, 2006 (AP)— The touch-screen voting machines Katherine Harris championed as secretary of state after the 2000 presidential recount may have botched this year's election to replace her in the U.S. House, and it's likely going to mean another Florida recount.

More than 18,000 Sarasota County voters who marked other races didn't have a vote register in the House race, a rate much higher than the rest of the district, elections results show.

Sarasota County Elections Supervisor Kathy Dent defended her staff and the voting machines, arguing that the thousands of voters must have either overlooked the race which was pushed to a second screen by a glut of minor U.S. Senate candidates on the ballot or simply decided not to vote for either candidate in a race marked by mudslinging.

"My machines have recorded accurately for 40 elections," Dent said.

But she couldn't explain why the undervote rate in her county was so much higher than in the four other counties in the district.

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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. The Candidate Speaks! (But a recount will not help in this case.)
Edited on Thu Nov-09-06 01:00 PM by Bill Bored
> Dear Friends,
>
> It is overwhelming to think of how many of you have spent your free time
> making phone calls, knocking on doors, and stuffing envelopes. Thank you
> for your support. I couldn't have gotten this far without you.
>
> The Supervisor of Elections reported today that there were 18,382
> undervotes in this Congressional race - that means more than 1 out of
> every 7 ballots cast did not record a vote for the 13th District
> Congressional race. This is a staggering number. Sarasota voters have
> been victimized by not having their vote count.
>
> I hope my opponent agrees that the most important thing is to make sure
> every vote throughout the district is counted and counted accurately.
> This is about ensuring fair elections.
>
> Concerned and frustrated voters have been calling us since the beginning
> of early voting. On Election Day, we received dozens of reports from
> voters who experienced a problem at the polls. Today, it is
> overwhelming, the number of emails and phone calls we have received. We
> continue to document the cases as they come in, and the phones are still
> ringing off the hook. We've had members of the media, people who trained
> pollworkers, and even pollworkers themselves contact us.
>
> By law, there will be a mandatory recount. Our goal is to assure every
> voter that we will have a fair and accurate election process. We will
> not rest until every vote is counted.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Christine Jennings

These are paperless DREs and the recount will only reveal what's already in memory. What needs to be done is to impound the machines and audit the election configuration (ballot definition) file and object code if necessary. If there are any PAPER ballots, of course they should be recounted, but this may not even be legal in sunny Florida where the machines rule!
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BruceMcF Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Even a paper trail EVM won't catch this ...
... if the problem was "mis-set" voting machines that just coincidentally only had troubles registering a vote for the Democratic candidate in the House. I voted on a paper trail machine ... its only a paper record of what showed up in the final ballot review on screen.

An electronic scanner of a hand filled paper ballot does not suffer the same problem, because the ballots can be handcounted in a recount or scanned through machines that did not suffer the same problem.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. You are correct sir. And welcome to DU! nt
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BruceMcF Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
51. Election fever, I assure you.
I could have held firm on my resolution to read without signing up, but that darned election fever took hold.

I don't know but that its a chronic condition.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #51
68. Well now that you will no longer be the CA SoS, you'll have plenty of time
on your hands to work on elections, right?
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. This appears to be deliberate systematic hack - based on the pattern
which means that someone in either the official chain or manufacturer/maintenance chain is involved.

But if those responsible have not already corrected the equipment or software hack, a real audit of the equipment and software would document the problem. The question is has there been sufficient attention to safeguarding the related equipment. Who has an expert who could advise Jennings regarding the equipment audit?
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. Gee, any chance we can K&R this one, or is this just a CA-50 forum? nt
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. definitely
I was just downloading and taking screen shots from the SOS site.

I converted their dat file into MS Word and now in the process of putting it into excel.

:)

We want Curtis! Feeney needs to be investigated big time. I am sure Conyers will.

:hi:
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. sorry, brain fog... done
Charitably, this is the butterfly ballot of 2006. That's the best case.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Sure.
K&R
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
14. Sounds like the new House should decide this one
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. Will current or new house decide this one? likely would make a difference
Taking all evidence into account, the evidence supports Jennings;

But only taking obviously and documentably hacked counts into account, Buchanan wins.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. The election is for the next House, so for the next House to decide.
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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
15. Thanks for posting this n/t
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greeneyedboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
17. the Fla. Democratic Party needs your help - see this link
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2950989">kick in a few bucks to help them get through the legal hoops to straighten this out.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
18. Here's what the PAPER ballot looked like:
<http://www.srqelections.com/SampleBallots/sample%20ballot%20general%202006.pdf>

Sources on the ground are saying that the undervote rate on the absentee ballots was only 2.6% compared to 16.7% for the same race on the DREs.

The media may not yet be reporting this huge discrepancy.
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I'm trying to spread the word
You can verify the undervote rate(s) here:
http://www.srqelections.com/results/gen2006sum.htm

Totally out of trend. And there are good indications in the precinct-level data that Jennings was disproportionately affected.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. I notice that the close State Attorney General race also had lots of undervotes
Though not as many as in the Jennings race.
That was also a very important and close race, but not as close as Jennings.
It would be interesting to follow undervotes for the Attorney general race in other areas with
touch screens.
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. Charlotte, Lee, Sumter
had large AG undervotes. Sarasota, maybe a bit, but not especially.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. You consider 7% not very high? U..S, Senate was 1.8% & I think that was high
Generally, opti-scan systems have much lower undervotes. Such as neighboring Manatee County.
If undervotes are consistently higher in Sarasota than Manatee for various races, would you say the problem is more a difference in the preferences of the people voting or the type of voting system they are using.
Regarding undervotes, I would guess the latter. Undervotes is an easy way to swing elections that are close. These top level races all had a huge amount of advertising and TV time.

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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. 7% in the AG race in Sarasota?
I don't see that. Based on the summary, I see 4.8% ED, 4.4% early, and 2.6% absentee. So ED is a bit high but not jaw-dropping. It's true that the AG undervote was lower in Manatee.

"If undervotes are consistently higher in Sarasota than Manatee for various races, would you say the problem is more a difference in the preferences of the people voting or the type of voting system they are using."

No. I'm really not in a position to generalize about differences in undervote rates between the two counties, other than the egregious House case. I can speculate. For instance, people may have fewer downticket undervotes on op-scan because they can see all the races simultaneously.

I don't think it has been persuasively demonstrated yet that undervotes are generally easier to rig than vote switches, although in some circumstances that may be true. There may well be a problem with the DREs, but I wouldn't say that a 4.8% undervote rate for AG stands as strong evidence of tampering. That isn't to say that I'm vouching for the process or count in the AG race.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #41
61. What is the URL for Florida undervotes and overvotes?
What info are you quoting?

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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #61
69. oops, never saw this question here
Let the record reflect that we actually traded PMs/e-mails on this question. The basic statewide overvote/undervote stats can all be assembled by county from here: http://election.dos.state.fl.us/elections/resultsarchive/enight.asp -- well, not all, but one can infer the total number of overvotes + undervotes per county per race. Counties have more detailed information, but it varies from county to county.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
93. I'm told there were 9 ballot versions and not many were like this one
several were of the butterfly ballot type where you don't see Jennings with the Cong. race according to the voters.
See their posted statements
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
21.  Herald Tribune followup on Jennings district 13 hack
Dist. 13 voting analysis shows broad problem

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061109/NEWS/611090343

SARASOTA COUNTY -- A review of voting results shows that in almost every precinct a high percentage of voters didn't cast ballots.
• Dent explains why election results were delayed
• Race so close 2 recounts may be required by law
• Buchanan sets Washington plans
• Elections supervisor in eye of the storm
• House could end up in the 13th District
• Attorneys swarm in for vote recount
• Sarasota voters report touch-screen woes

TODAY'S UPDATES:
• Jennings to speak to media 2:31pm
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
23. Florida Dist. 70 used same machines and likewise very close
Edited on Thu Nov-09-06 10:30 PM by philb
State Representative
District: 70
Doug Holder (REP)David Shapiro (DEM)
Sarasota 32,835 32,079

% Votes 50.6% 49.4%

Unlike Jennings, this race isn't getting any help or attention

Anyone knowing something regarding the House Dist 70 race contact Virginia:

365-2289 or 365-7450
they could use some volunteers/info/contributions also

Similar race circumstances but less money spent
questionable negative ads- may have violated ethics rules

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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
26. At the risk of being piled on...
As I have said before, never ascribe to treachery that which can better be explained by stupidity and/or arrogance.

*sigh*

The machines are junk. The fact that we have win this election despite the machines and the fact that we now have REPUBLICANS bitching about them, should put this kind of thinking to rest.

Can we devote our energy to getting rid of this crap instead of pursuing these kinds of theories which go nowhere?
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. but this needs a very close look
Did one out of eight election day voters simply not see the race? Maybe. Dent at some point was suggesting that it was a 'protest vote,' so at least we have made unambiguous progress from there.

As long as we don't start assuming stuff, I think it's fine to point out the flip side of your point: one of the reasons these machines are so bad is that they tend to render treachery indistinguishable from stupidity.
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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Quick search of Google news:
Sarasota Herald Tribune

SARASOTA COUNTY -- Raymond Politowicz voted for Vern Buchanan. Kate Lowman voted for Christine Jennings.

But a day after the election, the Sarasota residents shared at least one political belief: The county's voting process is deeply flawed.

More than 120 voters called or e-mailed the Herald-Tribune, reporting problems with the county's touch-screen voting machines. Almost all of the complaints stemmed from the congressional race between Buchanan and Jennings.

Reporters interviewed three dozen of the frustrated voters, most of whom said they either missed the candidates on the ballot or that their votes did not register at first.

At his polling place, a 12th Street church in Sarasota, Politowicz pushed the touch-screen button for the Republican candidate.

The machine highlighted the name, and the registered independent continued through the races and issues.

But at the final review screen, it showed he hadn't voted for either candidate. A poll worker said he hadn't pressed the screen hard enough.

He went back and registered the vote, but was unsatisfied.

"I hate this stuff; it should be paper ballots, period," he said. "I know there's hanky-panky."

Across town at a church on Wood Street, Lowman, a Democrat, touched the screen for Jennings.

"It turned into the blue highlight around her name," she said. "But when I got to the review screen it indicated I had not voted in the Jennings-Buchanan race."

The next day, she said, she read about the 368-vote margin and that nearly 17,000 people appeared to have not voted for either candidate.

"Do I trust this picture? No way," she said.


Computer World

November 10, 2006 (Computerworld) -- An estimated 18,000-vote undercount in Sarasota County, Fla., on Tuesday -- possibly the result of a technical error involving the touch-screen voting systems used there -- has prompted voter activist groups to seek an investigation.

The undercount could affect the outcome of the District 13 U.S. House race, where Democrat Christine Jennings is behind her Republican opponent, Vern Buchanan, by just 368 votes. The District 13 seat is now held by Katherine Harris, the controversial former secretary of state of Florida who fell short in her bid to unseat incumbent Democratic Sen. Bill Nelson.



Bradenton Herald

SARASOTA - The state plans to audit Sarasota County's voting system after more than 18,000 votes were either not cast or not recorded in the Vern Buchanan-Christine Jennings race.

Florida Secretary of State Sue Cobb ordered the audit at the request of county Supervisor of Elections Kathy Dent, who has blamed the large number of non-votes on voter error or choice.

Cobb informed Dent of the decision in a letter sent today.

"I am directing members of my staff to conduct an audit of Sarasota County's voting system and attendant procedures with regard to the United States Congressional District 13 race," Cobb wrote.

According to unofficial results, Buchanan beat Jennings by 368 votes out of more than 237,000 cast. But in Sarasota County, 18,382 ballots didn't have a vote in the race.

That's an undervote rate of 12.9 percent, significantly higher than that in other counties in the Congressional district and other races on Sarasota County's ballot.

Jennings, who has not conceeded the race, contends the county's touch-screen voting machines didn't record all votes in the contentious race. The Democrat's campaign is exploring its options, including possible legal action, and has scheduled a news conference for 3:30 p.m. today.


Desoto Sun Herald

ENGLEWOOD -- Tuesday's Sarasota County charter amendment that mandates paper ballots be used in future elections could not have been approved at a better time.

Unless, of course, voters could have done so Monday.

With 18,000 "undervotes" skewing U.S. Congressional District 13 election results, paper ballot proponents say the electronic confusion fostered by touch-screen voting only proves the validity of their proposal.

"This is exactly why we went through the whole process to get this on the ballot," said Walt Augustinowicz, vice chairman of the Florida Libertarian Party, a staunch supporter of the measure.

"It absolutely proved the wisdom of our amendment," said Kindra Muntz of the Sarasota Alliance for Fair Elections, which got the amendment on the ballot with a petition drive signed by 14,500 county voters.



Orlando Sentinel:

Touch-screen-voting machines in at least four Florida counties recorded unusually high percentages of ballots with no votes in Tuesday's election -- a sign that new electronic-ballot machines may not be as foolproof as hoped.

Most of the post-election attention Thursday remained focused on Sarasota County, where more than 18,000 blank ballots -- representing 13 percent of the 142,284 ballots cast -- could have affected the outcome of one of the most hotly contested congressional races in the country.

In that race, Republican Vern Buchanan defeated Democrat Christine Jennings by only 373 votes -- triggering a likely recount.

But an Orlando Sentinel review of results among the 24 other counties that use the same electronic-voting machines as Sarasota found three other instances -- in Sumter, Lee and Charlotte counties -- where an even higher percentage of ballots failed to show any vote cast in the race for state attorney general.

In Sumter, ballots with no recorded votes -- known as "undervotes" -- accounted for 22 percent of all ballots in the attorney general's race. In Lee, 18 percent of ballots in that race were unvoted, and in Charlotte, 21 percent were blank.

By comparison, undervotes in those same counties in the U.S. Senate race were no higher than 1.5 percent.

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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
40. I think that the evidence is quite compelling that the machines is
at fault in this. The votes in this race simply were not recorded.

SOME folks are assuming that this was intentional skulduggery when no evidence exists to support such a viewpoint. The criminal malfeasance at this point is the election officials trying to cover their ass by claiming 18,000 people couldn't be bothered to vote in just this race.
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. that's about where I am
Edited on Fri Nov-10-06 11:07 PM by OnTheOtherHand
The "protest vote" argument is just embarrassing. (EDIT TO ADD: Well, no, not "just" embarrassing, but downright embarrassing.)
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-14-06 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #40
74. It may be true like the SOE says that her people don't have access, but the ES&S reps do have access
In many areas, both county SOE and company reps have access to easily manipulate calibration of machines-
which can be done in a biased manner, or to manipulate compilers.

This has been fully documented many times.


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Votergater Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-14-06 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #30
72. Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from fraud.
(With apologies to Arthur C. Clark)
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. unreliability is not the main problem; manipulation is documented
Edited on Fri Nov-10-06 03:39 PM by philb
There was a huge effort by non-partisan organizations such as Common Cause, Verified Voting, VotersUnited, etc. in 2004 to monitor the elections(and likewise in 2006). There was a huge amount of irregularities documented by the effort- documenting a swing of over 300,000 votes in Florida, over 150,000 votes in Ohio, and large numbers in other states. hundreds of thousands of irregularities affecting millions of votes were compiled into the EIRS and Common Cause and other data bases. These are still publically available.
There is documentation of widespread illegal dirty tricks to prevent minorities from voting, voter suppression through provision of too few machines or malfunctioning machines in minority precincts, widespread illegal purges, manipulation of registrations, absentees, provisionals, etc. plus systematic touchscreen switching in over 20 states.

www.flcv.com/ohiosum.html Ohio
www.flcv.com/fla04EAS.html Florida
www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html touch screens
www.flcv.com/summary.html most states

There was also many other types of fraud documented in the Ohio recount and by analysis supported by affidavits and sworn testimony. www.flcv.com/greenrc.html and the info on Richard's website (what's his last name?) and votersunite web site. There was widespread fraud and manipulation documented in other states as well.

some of the touch screen problems did involve glitches and unreliability; but very many clearly were systematic and not just random reliability problems. When the problems involve just one candidate or just one race and there are not similar for others, it is clear that these are not random problems- but are rather systematic problems.
It was documented that there was widespread systematic switching of 3 types primarily affecting the top level Democratic candidates only; such as Kerry and U.S. Senate candidates. The switching documented was of 3 basic types:
switching from one candidate to another(virtually all Kerry to Bush), switching from Kerry to a minor party candidate, and delayed "switching to blank". In this type, when you type in the vote you see it and move on, but there is a programmed in delayed switch that changes the vote to blank. Depending on timing you may catch this on the review screen and it might be possible to "fix" the problem if you catch it- but its not clear whether that is the case.

There were also systematic manipulations of other types of compilers includin punch cards documented.






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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. Sigh
And yet, no criminal charges have been filed.

You do realize that done correctly, it is virtually impossible to prove someone manipulated tehse machines short of a signed confession?

Again, it is a waste of time to continue down paths after things that cannot be proven. Far better to use that time, energy and money on changing the laws to remove these things from our society.

David

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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #39
47. This can be easily proven by a machine audit
When voters report that the problem is happening on a machine, the machine should be impounded and audited.
This is only reasonable, given that the results of elections are important.
As an advanced programmer, I can assure you that an audit of the machines that were reported to be switching to another candidate or to blank would document what the problem was.
The problem is lack of will; not lack of ability.

But one has to assure that the machine is not "fixed" before the audit.

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BruceMcF Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. And also that the result of the audit is competent and honest.
This is a county that has a reputation for not possessing large quantities of either.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. I agree that should have been done
and I have also seen poll workers pretty much tell a person who reports the issue after they have cast their vote that they are imagining things.

A person who experiences a problem with a voting machine MUST bring in the precinct captain IMMEDIATELY and show them the problem. As long as people wait until AFTER the fact, we are going to have problems.

Again, given the results of the election, I am 99.9% certain that a problem existed and was the result of faulty programming of the ballot or a bug in the software. Tampering doesn't make sense since the error affected both candidates. It DID throw the election in the context that we have compelling reasons to say we do not find the results accurate, thus cannot say with ANY certainty who won the race.

I would contest this race in court and demand a new election for the district.
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SarasotaDem Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
29. Here in Sarasota
Reading here that Dents office.... not ESS programmed the machines
and designed the ballot.

I'm sure glad the voters here approved paper ballots for the
next election ...... 2008

I would love to see a re-vote ... at least in Sarasota County.
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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Is that a technical possibility?
I always thought they should have revoted Florida in 2000, but of course this is an entire race. Is there any constitutional provision for a revote?
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. I don't know the specific statutes but would assume that if it can be
Edited on Fri Nov-10-06 04:12 PM by philb
firmly documented that there was fraud or manipulation of the counts- which there appears to be- then the results would either be reversed or have a revote. If the other candidates campaign was directly involved the result would almost surely be reversed I would think.
If the party manipulating was a contractor or manufacturer rep- who are the ones who have the most easy access to such- then it might require documenting who was the political party affiliated with the contractor in the hack.

If the machines have been protected, it should be possible to document that there was a systematic technical problem with some of the machines or software. Not all machines would have had this problem.



It was determined in Ohio that some of the machine manufacturers have a wireless patch to their compilers and can make changes to the machines from their office, even during the election. There were sworn affidavits to this effect I believe.





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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Sarasota voters approved getting rid of touch screens by 2008
Edited on Fri Nov-10-06 04:03 PM by philb
ironic that the voters anticipated the problem, but were a little too late to avoid this mess
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #29
48. Examples of reported switching in Sarasota in 2004
Edited on Sat Nov-11-06 10:49 AM by philb
Sarasota County

10/22/04, 8:00 AM PST Machine problemSarasota County, Florida A friend of the caller was attempting to cast a vote for Betty Castor (democratic candidate for U.S. Senate from Florida) when the machine brought up names of only Republican candidates. This happened 3 times.

033406 11/02/04, 7:46 AM PST Machine problem Denis Bible Church, 2395 Shamrock Dr, Denis, Sarasota County, Florida Voted Democractic on electronic machine and it kept coming up Republican


the switching from Castor to Martinez happened in several counties; none reported from Martinez to Castor.
Is this extreme unluckiness on part of Dems, or something else?
That race was close. Did they send the wrong person to the Senate??

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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #48
64. Sarasota poll worker describes what she observed on election day
Dear Kathy Dent, S.O.E.

I worked as an inspector at precinct 5 in Sarasota on Tuesday, November 7th. I am writing to let you know that I was very disturbed about the kinds of problems that the voters were experiencing during the voting process.

There were people who went through the entire voting process, including pressing the vote button, who subsequently got a screen instructing them to "continue".

There were people who claimed that they voted on the race for the 13th Congressional District and yet, in the review of their ballot, there was no evidence of their vote having been registered.

There were people who claimed that the race for the 13th Congressional District had not shown up at all on their ballot until the review of their ballot.

I, personally, was unaware of the potential problem with viewing page 2 of the ballot until voters began to complain of the problems they were experiencing. There had been no mention of this from my clerk or co-workers while we were setting up for the voting process. After the voters started telling me about the problems they were experiencing, specifically with this race, then, and only then, did my co-workers say that they had heard about a potential problem with one of the ballot pages the night before "on the news". One of them said, "Oh yes, Kathy Dent came on and told people to watch out for that."

Why was there nothing posted at the polling places warning voters about this if you were aware of the potential problem?

Why were we (poll-workers) not instructed ,either by you or by our clerk, to warn voters of this potential problem before opening the doors to voters?

Why, if the ballot was previewed prior to the election was such an obviously poor layout of page 2 approved by your office?

I am a strong advocate for exercising our right to vote. I believe our right to have a voice in government is one of the most important privileges we, as citizens have. This, in my opinion, is what sets our nation apart from much of the world.

However, the right to vote means nothing if the process leaves you wondering whether or not your vote will get registered, or if the ballot is going to be accurate.

Sincerely,
Susan Gaar


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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-14-06 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #64
75. followup inquiry of poll worker to me and my response re: other similar cases
Phillip,
It concerns me that I have not heard anyone else mention the problem
about the machines prompting the user to continue after the voter
pushed the vote button. I can imagine that it might not be noticed if
it didn't stay on the screen for very long, because a pollworker would
not be able to see it from the required 8 ft distance. I only saw it
because I walked up to the machine to wipe it off after my voter left.
This was the most alarming thing I witnessed, and it seems odd that I
would be the only one to experience it. Remember, it happened twice
and on two different machines. My co-workers and the poll watcher at
my precinct will verify it.
Have you heard of this happening anywhere else?
Susan


Response:
This a report by poll observers in Mahoning co. Ohio something like the poll worker in Sarasota describes:

031604 11/02/04, 6:46 AM PST Machine problem; Identification-related problem; Other ballot-related problem; Long lines; Polling place inquiry Hillman School, Mahoning County, Ohio
1. 2 polling districts, one small cramped voting area; random lines, so that many wasted time in wrong line, had to start over;
2. poll workers unwilling to read names of streets in each district so voters know where to go;
3 machines in which "thank you for your vote" didn't pop up;
4. workers unwilling to call Board of Elections--merely giving provisional ballot

035882 11/02/04, 9:28 AM PST Machine problem Mary Haddon School, Youngstown, Mahoning County, Ohio machine problem, two machines down

035574 11/02/04, 9:17 AM PST Machine problem Spanish Evangelical Church, Youngstown, Mahoning County, Ohio Insufficient number of machines, worker is having trouble clearing the machines for the next voter.


Since there has been a huge amount of switching reported by voters in many counties of many states, someone should have been interviewing the poll workers imo. I don't know why they haven't, except that its seemed that neither party has wanted to admit that all of this stuff has been going on, in spite of the evidence. There are some reports by poll workers who were concerned by what they saw, but they mostly focused on things like counting the number who signed the precinct books and comparing to the machine results, reporting that they were being asked what to do when the machine switched their vote to another party, etc.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-14-06 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Reports by voters in 2004 in Mahoning Co. Ohio similar to the voters in Sarasota in 2006
The following are some reports from Mahoning Co. that are similar to what I've seen reported by the voters in Sarasota. There were also some of these in Broward Co. in 2004.



047630 11/02/04, 4:40 PM PST Machine problem; Disability access problem; Long lines Hillman Elementary School, Mahoning County, Ohio Every time I tried to vote for the Democratic Party Presidential vote the machine went blank. I had to keep trying, it took 5 tries. The wait was forever because they only had 6 machines.

041949 11/02/04, 1:24 PM PST Machine problem Price Memorial Zion Church, Mahoning County, Ohio Voted in all categories. Went back to verify choices and found that the presidential box was not selected. Both this lady and her mother had it happen voting on different machines. Said that presidential vote option never appeared while they were going through trying to vote. Happened to a third lady at the same time, but I didn't speak to her.

042482 11/02/04, 1:35 PM PST Machine problem Tabernacle Baptist Church, Covington & Arlington Sts., Mahoning County, Ohio Voting machine number V0107749-C malfunctioning, screen flashes and scrolls, shows different results or no results. OVPC #14

042692 11/02/04, 1:39 PM PST Machine problem Price Memorial Zion Church, Mahoning County, Ohio Had to scroll through and revote 5 times before his votes were properly recorded. Poll workers acknowledged that that particular machines had been experiencing problems.

053321 11/05/04, 9:40 AM PST Machine problem Middle Lutheran Church, Youngstown, Mahoning County, Ohio Voting delay 1st machine did not work. Next machine started working and then it erased his votes. Eventually was able to vote. Touch screen voting.

029939 11/02/04, 5:22 AM PST Machine problem Mahoning County, Ohio 1st machine on right - problem

Mahoning County. The glass on top of one ES&S iVotronic electronic screen was too far from the screen, making it difficult for people to use their fingers to cast ballots. A screen went blank on a Youngstown voter while he cast his ballot. http://www.votersunite.org/article.asp?id=3674
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-14-06 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. Reports by Broward Co. voters in 2004 of switch to blank similar to that reported in Sarasota this y
Broward County (EIRS data base)

045860 11/02/04, 3:33 PM PST Machine problem; Other broward County, Florida, candidate deleted when hit button, at review screen, no vote for president, 5 voters so far reported they don't know which machines.

046954 11/02/04, 4:12 PM PST Machine problem Broward County, Florida Voter needed help with machine when poll worker came over, the review screen was up but had no ballots cast (no candidates issues checked). The poll worker hit the red vote button and voted the voter's blank ballot.

055103 11/10/04, 10:26 AM PST Machine problem St George Community Center(#32Z), Ft Lauderdale, Broward County, Florida I voted for Kerry and after the screen ask me to write in my vote. I ask a poll worker to assist me. The pollworker ask the repairman and I was allow to vote.

045403 11/02/04, 3:19 PM PST Machine problem Sheridan Park Elementary, (#47v)Broward County, Florida The square she pressed was not selecting anything. She had to select outside the box to almost another candidate. She requested assistance from a pollworker, "Just press the one that lights up" they instructed. She had to try and cancel three times before the correct candidate was highlighted

048091 11/02/04, 4:54 PM PST Machine problem Pembroke Pines, Pembroke Pines, Broward County, Florida #1 machine @ Charter School(#25X), Pembroke Rd., would not give choices for senators or representatives. Machine simply cut off mid-vote. Machine very slow. Asked for help, poll worker wouldn't let her explain problem; just said, "you're finished, press the red button."

Precinct 429, 10:05 am, Voted for President, but review showed no vote. Asked for help. Had to go back and vote 3 times before vote showed on screen.

057793 11/15/04, 8:21 AM PST Machine problem Fort Lauderdale, Broward County, Florida I've been a pollworker in Broward County, Florida for a number of years and have worked in many elections. As a citizen, and someone with a B.S. in Computer Science, I've been greatly concerned about the accuracy of electronic voting machines. Having worked with computers for decades in my own business, I know how vulnerable they are to both incompetence and tampering. So I always do everything I can to cross check and verify the numbers in my precinct, and the numbers in this election do not add up. 553 people voted on the machines in Precinct #11R, but the machines only registered 536 votes cast. Here are the details: I've worked with the same crew for a couple of elections now and we all care very much about making sure that everyone who is entitled to gets to vote, doing the best job we can to ensure the accuracy of their votes, making sure voters know how to use the machines, doing all the paperwork accurately and thoroughly, etc. Due to our Assistant Clerk taking sick early in the day on November 2, 2004, the Clerk asked me to take over as Assistant Clerk for Precinct 11R, and part of my responsibilities that day were to count and tally all the voting slips in our precinct. I was also directly involved with bringing up the ballots on the machines, preparing provisional ballots and affirmations for voters, logging those voters, contacting the elections office, and other tasks throughout the day. In this election we had 541 voters who signed the precinct registers. Additionally there were 14 people who were not on the registers who filled out pink affirmation forms; for these voters we called the elections office and got an approval code for each one, enabling them to vote on the machines. One person who signed a pink affirmation form voted with a provisional ballot rather than on the machine, which can be verified through the Clerk's Voters Log and also by looking at that voter's provisional ballot. So 13 people who signed affirmations voted on the machines. Each of these voters received a small slip printed on gold paper which was then given to an election worker, who brought up a ballot for them on the machine. Election workers also verified that each of these people had completed their ballot when they left the voting machine. There were also 18 people who voted with provisional ballots, these people did not receive the little gold paper slips and did not vote on the machines, so I am not including them in these tallies. Voters who signed affirmations or voted with provisional ballots were also logged into the Clerk's Voters Log and the numbers can be verified that way as well. We used a separate book of gold slips for the voters who signed affirmations so that can also be used to cross check the number of voters who signed affirmations and voted on the machines. All the various options with affirmations and provisional ballots these days make things a little more complicated and confusing. I tried to reconcile the numbers on election night but I could not, and this disturbed me greatly, but I thought perhaps I was just confused by all the variables because of the affirmations, provisional ballots etc. However, I looked at the numbers again the next morning, and the discrepancy in the numbers in our precinct can be distilled clearly as follows: The total number of voters in Precinct 11R who were approved to vote was: 541 - signed precinct register 13 - signed affirmations for a total of 554 voters. We had 553 gold slips returned, so probably one person left the precinct with their slip without voting, which could have easily happened as our lines both inside and outside were very long, and in the crowd near the front door, where the end of the line was for people who had already signed in and received slips, someone could have left without us knowing it. So these figures are consistent, we had 554 voters who were entitled to vote on the machines and received gold slips, and 553 of them did exactly that, as verified by these two different ways of counting voters, as well as by pollworkers who assisted them, collected slips and verified that each voter had completed their ballot. However, at the end of the night, the machines registered only 536 votes cast. That is a difference of 17 votes. 17 votes out of 553 is over 3% of the vote simply not counted. I have no way of knowing if there were additional problems with the accuracy of the votes cast, but it's clear that, at the very least, over 3% of the votes in Precinct 11R were not counted. All of the numbers detailed here were counted, recounted and verified by several pollworkers, and can easily be verified in several different ways using the paper records from our precinct. I kept the scratch paper where I made these calculations and can make that available if needed. Our original Assistant Clerk logged in the serial numbers of all the books of voting slips at the beginning of the day, and we both marked off each book of slips as it was used. So the number of gold slips used can also be re-verified that way. This log of voters' slips was returned to the Supervisor of Elections with the voters' slips (used and unused), affirmations, provisional ballots, precinct registers, Clerk's Voters Log and all other materials. Therefore please include Broward County, Florida Precinct 11R in your research and Freedom of Information Act requests. Please let me know how I can be of assistance with your work. If you need more information or clarification about my experience in the precinct, or if there is anything I can do here in Broward County, please let me know. It is very clear that the votes in my precinct were not counted accurately in this election, and that is unacceptable. I will also be submitting this information to MoveOn.org, Greg Palast and BlackBoxVoting.com through the forms on their respective websites. If there is anyone else I should send this information to, please let me know. I would greatly appreciate confirmation that you have received this information, as I understand your website and others are being frequently sabotaged by hackers at the moment. Thanks for all you are doing so we can determine the actual results of our election!

there were lots more switching from Kerry to Bush and Castor to Martinez, but the ones provided here are similar to the reports I've seen on Sarasota this time. The voters described switch to blank.

There were even more of these documented in Mahoning County, Ohio, in notarized testimony during the Ohio 2004 recount.






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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-17-06 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #64
89. Voters descritions of anomalies they saw on election day in Sarasota
from another thread

1. House race (among others) did not appear in the main voting screens but did appear in the review screen.

2.House race appeared in the main voting screens but was positioned in such a way that it was easy to miss.

3.House race appeared in the main voting screen at the bottom of one screen and then fell over into the following screen. Jennings was on the second of the two screens in a small font and was therefore very easy to miss.

4.Voter touched to select Jennings but no selection for that race showed up when arriving at the review screen.

5.Voter touched to select Jennings but Buchanan selection showed up for that race when arriving at the review screen.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
63. Sarasota poll worker gives further info on what she observed
There were 2(or 3) separate types of problems described by voters and poll workers that lost Jennings votes.
The first was a delayed switch to blank hack/glitch where the voter voted for Jennings but the vote "disappeared" by the time the voter was finished unless the voter saw that the Jennings slot was blank on the review screen.
The second were cases where the voter never saw the Jennings name on the ballot. Based on this poll workers discription it was because some of the ballots were designed like the "butterfly ballots" in Palm Beach and Duval County in 2000 that swung the florida race from Gore to Bush. The Congress header was on page 1 with Buchanan's name but no Jennings.
On the 2nd page was Jennings name at the top by itself with no Cong. Header and in small print. You would not know to look for it or know what its context was unless you understood that this was a contuation from page 1 of the Cong. race. Though the SOE and Sarasota officials were aware of this problem from early voting. They did not inform the voters about the ballot design flaw that was affecting lots of voters.


Pollworker continues:
"After the first incident of a voter telling me that the Jennings/ Buchanan race had not appeared on
his ballot until the review section (within the first half hour of
voting) I felt alarmed that this could happen, and emphasized the
importance of the review even more, by saying go slowly, look very
carefully etc. The problem of the likelihood of people overlooking the
race had not been explained to us (pollworkers) so I didn't alert
people specifically to that. As the day progressed, more people let us
know that they weren't seeing this race before the review, or that they
voted on it and their vote disappeared when they got to the review. I
then learned from a co-worker (the asst. clerk) that he had seen an
announcement by the S.O.E. on the news the previous evening, stating
that there was a problem with viewing some of the information at the
top of one of the ballot pages. I could not view the page myself at
that point because it was on page 2 which I was not authorized to view,
being that I would have to violate a voter's right to privacy to do so.
From that point on I made a concerted effort to specifically emphasize
the importance of looking carefully at the top of page 2, AND taking
their time to carefully check to see if everything was exactly as they
intended when they came to the review, and to not push the vote button
until they were 100% satisfied that it was correct.
I could not hear what the other pollworkers were saying to their voters
most of the time, so I don't know if they were specific about the
problem or not.

I have heard mixed experiences from voters who voted in other
precincts. Some were warned some were not. I did not feel then, nor
do I now feel that telling voters to review their votes was adequate
warning for this specific situation. Given that the problem had come
to light prior to election day, I would have expected to be given
special instructions to insure as little error as possible."


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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
34. Dist 13 problem appears to be "delayed switch to blank" hack seen in 2004 also
The problems that occurred in the Jennings Dist 13 race are consistent with the "switch to blank" hack that was documented extensively in 2004 in the Kerry/Bush race in Florida, Ohio, and other states; and also to the Castor/Martinez race in Florida. This is a systematic technical programming hack that on a delay changes the vote from the marked candidate to blank. Depending on the timing, the blank (no vote) could show up on the review screen.

The analyst who compiled the problems found in the Ohio recount and filed notarized testimony on this issue documented this type of problem. We analyzed the even more extensive touch screen switching problems in Florida in 2004 and also documented the problem as having commonly occurred in South Florida.

This is one of the easiest ways to hack an election with little risk of being exposed, unless the equipment is immediately impounded on election day and maintenance not allowed on the machines. The only issue in using it is not to do so on so many machines that the number of overvotes is "too high". But it was not the only touch screen hack used in the 2004 election. Some simply had a delay switch from one candidate to another, in some cases the main opponent and in some cases a minor party candidate. The person who compiled the Florida EIRS data spoke on this issue at some national election protection conferences.
While it is also possible for misvotes to occur due to general reliability problems or miscalibration of the equipment, this should produce more random misvotes rather than systematic misvotes that only affects one race or one candidate.


There was a major effort after the stolen election in Florida of 2000 by non-partisan organizations included many organizations involved in fair voting issues to monitor the 2004 elections for voting irregularities. There were thousands of volunteers who monitored precincts throughout the country, especially in urban areas and states that had previously experienced problems, such as Florida which was focused on. There was a call in hotline for voters to call and report problems that they experienced that was widely publicized. Likewise the EP volunteers at the polls could report problems. About 50,000 problems were reported and compiled in a data base, called the Election Incident Reporting System(EIRS). Some reports related to large numbers of voters. We compiled the EIRS database for all states. Florida had the most fraud, manipulation, and dirty tricks reported of all states in 2004. Even more than Ohio which got all of the attention. But my co-analyst spoke on the problems in Florida at national conferences on voting irregularities and election protection.

Our compilation for all states is www.flcv.com/summary.html
Our compilation for Florida is www.flcv.com/fla04EAS.html
Our compilation for Ohio is www.flcv.com/ohiosum.html
Our compilation of touch screen switching problems is www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html

It was documented that Kerry carried Ohio, and appeared to also win in Florida and New Mexico- any of which would have meant Kerry was President. Other Univ. related analysts reached similar conclusions based on other means of analysis, such as the exit poll data.

Common Cause had a separate hot line and database that documented even more problems than the EIRS System. Some states had their own EP system as well.
We have had some access to these additional sources of irregularity compilations.
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greeneyedboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
43. any news on this?
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. the Sarasota Herald-Tribune is doing great work
More than 300 voters have so far contacted the Herald-Tribune by telephone or e-mail about their experience at the polls on Tuesday. About 150 voters have been interviewed by a team of reporters.

The majority of those contacted say they clearly remember voting for Christine Jennings. But once they reached the final review page on their ballot, they saw their vote had not registered, and they corrected it.

In many cases, voters initially thought they had made an error on their ballot. Only after talking to a spouse or co-worker did they realize the problem was widespread.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061111/NEWS/611110643

The Herald-Trib has had a series of good stories, and they are putting resources into the story -- they aren't just sitting around quoting a few people.

As you can see from the story, various things are happening, but I don't have any sense yet of how likely it is that some of the machines will actually be examined. (Of course, an examination isn't guaranteed to uncover anything.)
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greeneyedboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #46
58. thanks. here's their index of all articles on this issue.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
49. New documentation on Sarasota "glitches" by VotersUnite- paper ABs only 1.8% undervote
Edited on Sat Nov-11-06 01:55 PM by philb
Sarasota County. The Jennings-Buchanan Congressional race was impacted by ES&S iVotronics malfunctions. The race did not show up on some screens, and dozens of voters complained that their selections did not appear on the review screen. There were more than 18,000 undervotes in that contest, while the contest above and below it on the ballot had fewer than 2000 undervotes.
Story http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061108/NEWS/611080885

Jennings attorneys say the law allows a recount for the small margin (less than 1/4%), and they believe machine problems caused a loss of votes.
Story http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061108/BREAKING10/61108006&start=1

11-9-06 Update. While the touch screen undervote in the Jenning-Buchanan race was 13% in the county, paper absentee ballots showed a 1.8% undervote in that race
http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006611090343

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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
50. Kick
'cos I just kicked some other less important stuff on top.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
54. Undervotes and overvotes in Sarasota
Race: cast Overvotes Undervotes
U.S. Senate 140,664 3 1,617
Congress 123,901 1 18,382
Governor 140,448 1 1,821
Attorney gen 136,077 4 6,203
Chief financial officer 135,984 1 6,299
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
55. Legal brief of some issues in the proposed recount of Dist 13
Based on allegations of electronic voting machines malfunctioning and a seemingly large “undervote” in Sarasota County, the Florida Secretary of State is calling for an audit of Sarasota County’s voting system. Sarasota County Board of Elections reportedly requested the audit based on the discrepancy of 18,382 votes between major statewide races and the U.S. Congressional district 13 race. While it is typical for some undervote to occur, the undervote for this same congressional race was markedly lower in other counties included within the district.
In Sarasota County, the undervote was 12%,
as compared to 3% in neighboring Manatee County,
1% in Desoto County,
and 5% in Hardee County.
Absentee ballots in Sarasota County also had an undervote of only 3%.

... see: http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/news/articles.php?ID=42
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
56. dup
Edited on Sun Nov-12-06 01:17 AM by philb
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #56
94. EIRS (Election incident Report System) calls by voters to EP hotline
EIRS (Election incident Report System) calls by voters to EP hotline

http://eirs.cs.net:8080/EIRS_WEB/Reporting/displayUSReport.do


139 Polling Place Problem Sarasota Florida Yes LOST VOTES: 5 people cast votes on ES&S touch screen machines for the Democratic Congressional candidate but when the summary page/audit came up, that vote did not appear at all; after complaining they were eventually able to verify their votes for the candidate; however this has happened to at least 5 individuals all of whom were voting for the Democratic candidate ES&S touch screens were blank complained; they eventually saw a vote after the audit;

269 Polling Place Problem Sarasota Florida No happened to other people too; no vote was recorded at first; had to repeat vote until machine said that was recorded;

1947 Polling Place Problem Sarasota Florida Yes At Precinct 141, the names of two candidates, Christine Jennings and Vern Buchanon, were not appearing on the screens until the summary page, so voters were not given the opportunity to vote for either candidate.

3432 Other Problem Sarasota Florida Incarnation Church, Parish Hall No Voted for CHristine Jennings on electronic system. Around 7:20 this morning. When she was asked (by machine) to check her choices, there was a denotation next to that race saying "you didn't pick anybody for this race". Smaller print than anything else on page, but in red. She called poll worker and they went through choices again. With assistance of attendance, 2nd time the vote was picked up.

2652 Other Problem Sarasota Florida No Voter tried to vote straight Democratic ticket. Machine incorrectly changed one of his votes to the Republican candidate.

1750 Other Problem Sarasota Florida Yes The polling place lookup website for Sarasota county is not working. http://srqelections.com/ Then click on look-up polling place. Was working this morning, isn't now.

5651 Polling Place Problem Sarasota Florida No Congressional race did not appear on ballot until second time around.

4808 Polling Place Problem Manatee Florida Methodist Church No Voted for one candadate (jennings) did not show up on summary screen. Went back tried again and was able to vote for her.
3179 Polling Place Problem Manatee Florida No only one machine was working at whitfield presbyterian church at 7045 n. tamiami trail in sarasota.

1467 Polling Place Problem Manatee Florida Robo Calls No voting machine did not provide an opportunity to vote for a U.S congressman. At the end, the machine recognized the voter had not voted for Congressman, and routed back.

1248 Voter Intimidation Problem Manatee Florida Yes After hours voicemail message: Son (Phillip Blaustein) in Paris, FL (Manatee Co) (Dist 13) getting calls last 2 days at all hours, incl middle of night. Seem be from Christine Jennings, Democ candidate. If listen to end of message, call identified as from RNC. People agitated to point of voting against Jennings.

768 Voter Intimidation Problem Manatee Florida No Got 40-50 phone messages in past week purporting to be from Christine Jennings and after 4 minutes it is paid for by RNC




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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
57. Kick again
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greeneyedboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
59. NYT has an article on it, too
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
60. Voter describes what happened to her friends votes in Sarasota
Edited on Sun Nov-12-06 01:33 PM by philb
Note that 2 distinct types of problems are desribed.
One a faulty/biased ballot design, similar to the butterfly ballot design approved by Katherine Harris in 2000 that
resulted in swing of thousands of votes from Gore to Bush in Palm Beach and Duval counties, etc.

The other, a delayed "hack/glitch" that deleted Jennings votes selectively. This is consistent with reports of other Sarasota voters and a poll worker who emailed me.

****************
From: Rosemarie Myerson <[email protected]>
Date: Nov 10, 2006 1:41 PM
Subject: what haappened to three people in SArasota

I just have learned what was happening in Sarasota with the voting for Christine Jennings. Today I was at a Harvard Club luncheon and a husband and a wife and another man ay my table told me their stories. There were two distinct phenomena that they reported. All three were voting early voting and all three were from the same precinct and early voted in the same building so they should have seen the same screen.

1. These three people both from the same precinct and voting early at the Terrace Building got two very different screens.
Two people saw on the first screen the title Congressional Candidates and then underneath this title they saw the name only of Vern Buchanan ; but on the second screen way at the top they saw Christine Jennings name. That may explain why some people never saw her name ; Jenning's name may have been cut off the top of the second screen.

2. Other people saw Vern Buchanan and Christine Jennings name both on the same screen but found when they reviewed their vote, they found that their vote had been disappeared. These people had to go back and push four or five times to get the screen to accept their vote for Jennings.

I have to also admit that according to our local newspaper the ballot lay out was done by our Secretary of State.
Rosemarie Myerson
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Jennings Campaign ask any voter in Sarasota who had problem contact them asap!
If anyone had problems voting on the Buchanan/Jennings race please
contact the Jennings HQ asap at 366-8121. They need to hear from
everybody. They are taking affidavits today. Every problem counts.
They also want to hear from people who were barraged with phone calls
that they assumed were from the Jennings campaign.

Please come forward quickly by calling or going to the headquarters at
the Bayou Professional Center at 1751 Osprey (2nd floor).
They will be there until 5 p.m. today (or later if need be).

Your voice matters.

Susan G.
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Cookie wookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-14-06 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #62
73. you need to strip out people's email addresses
before posting.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
65. Cong. Districts 9 and 11 in Hillsboro- a nearby county with touch screens was much less than Dist 13
Hillsboro County in the same general area of the state also uses touchscreen machines
The Hillsboro races were less close and spent less money on ads than CD13 in Sarasota so likely had less interest

The undervote on election day in Cong. Dist 9 was 4.3% and for absentees 1.7%
the undervote on election day in Cong. Dist 11 was 4.5% and for absentees 2.9%

from the Hillsboro SOS website for votes by precinct

It would be interesting to compare these to opti-scan undervotes for the same districts if some exist
opti-scans have less undervotes in general than the less reliable touch screens
But since the touch screen seem to often be switching and have "glitches", its hard to tell if this is the basic reliability or manipulation

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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Interactive Undervote map Jennings vs. Buchanan, Sarasota FL
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. More Hillsboro County undervote percents- update- co. uses touch screens
Edited on Mon Nov-13-06 08:38 PM by philb
Hillsboro County
elec day absentee
undervotes undervotes
U.S. Sen 1.78% 1.10%
Cong D9 4.32% 1.71% Bilirakis/Busansky
Cong D11 4.54% 2.88% Adams/Castor

Governor 0.56% 1.00%
CFO 3.94% 4.78%
At. Gen. 3.35% 3.26%
Ag. Comm. 4.84% 4.67% (this was not a close race)
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #65
84. Low undervotes in neighboring Manatee Co.-- CD13 UV less than other Cong. races
Edited on Thu Nov-16-06 09:54 PM by philb
----------UV----------------UV

U.S. Sen --1%------Gov-0.4%

CD9 3.8%------At.Gen- 2.2%

CD13 2.4%------CFO--4.3%

------------------Ag Comm 3.3%
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-14-06 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
70. Does anyone know if provisional votes have been counted in Florida? if not would they swing result?
I assume that if a winner was declared in D13 then provisionals must have already been counted.
In other states where winners have not been declared they are still waiting to count the provisionals,
and maybe absentees in some cases. Since there was only about 368 votes difference here, provisionals could have made a difference in these totals.

If provisionals have been counted, does anyone know how many there were and how many were rejected?
has anyone looked at this? In many races in 2004 there were huge numbers of provisionals, and how they are treated would affect the winner.

In 2004 in Florida there was a huge effort to exclude minority votes by manipulation of provisionals.
There were widespread illegal dirty tricks telling minority voters the wrong precinct number, in conjunction with a new rule that if they vote in the wrong precinct their vote doesn't count. There also appeared to be considerable malfeasance and misfeasance in this regard, losing huge numbers of minority votes.



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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
78. More examples of Touch Screen Switch to Blank in Florida in 2004(Undervotes)
Edited on Wed Nov-15-06 07:26 PM by philb
Palm Beach County (Sequoia Edge Touch Screens)
Switching to blank
055577 11/11/04, 11:22 AM Machine problem
#7124 Boyton Beach Congregational Church, Palm Beach County, Florida Made selection for president went to review entry did not show up. Asked for help to cast out. Told by official he already voted.

045240 11/02/04, 3:17 PM PST Other polling place problem westward elementary, West Palm Beach, west palm beach County, Florida #7054 voter had to repeatedly try to enter information, accepted on third try; pressed with fingertips

055692 11/11/04, 1:51 PM PST Machine problem #7008 Burke's Garage 2526 Westchester Dr, Palm Beach County, Florida Voting machine took numerous taps to enter selection

055996 11/12/04, 9:15 AM PST Machine problem 1501 Avenue U, Palm Beach Riviera, Palm Beach County, Florida #7031 at the end of the ballot when she tried to review her ballot, she found half the things she had voted for were not voted. She tried again and couldn't make it work. She voted as best she could.

055994 11/12/04, 9:12 AM PST Machine problem 1501 Avenue U. , Riviera Beach, Palm Beach County, Florida #7031 Machine #1 sticks, will not hold the vote as marked - On the review of the ballot, many of the votes are erased. Machine #5 is still down. This is the second complaint on this machine in about 1 hour. There is someone in the polling place working on the other machine that is down but this machine is still being used.

055683 11/11/04, 1:37 PM Machine problem; Other ballot-related problem Westward Elementary School, West Palm Beach, Palm Beach County, Florida #7054 Had to keep tapping - didn't register vote at first. Finally vote DID count. She could see others getting frustrated

055604 11/11/04, 11:49 AM Machine problem Aberdeen East Clubhouse, Palm Beach County, Florida #3112 Machine would not accept vote on first 4 or 5 tries on several lines. Needed help to punch it

055585 11/11/04, 11:30 AM PST Machine problem Palm Beach County, Florida One machine malfunction - sometimes needed to press several times - poll workers refuse to shut down machine/take offline

055963 11/02/04, 8:40 AM PST Machine problem West Palm Beach, Palm Beach County, Florida Voter indicated YES on two items went to next screen, then back. The YES was gone. Voter re-cast that vote. At review screen everything was accurate. Voter reported it to pollworker. Poll worker's response was "Oh it happens sometimes!"

Dade County (ES&S iVontronic)

Switch to blank
001400 08/31/04, 2:26 PM PST Machine problem Miami, Miami-Dade County, Florida Voted on August 25th or 26th during early voting. Used DRE. Poll workers originally had problems getting access cards to work with the machines, but eventually resolved. More seriously, she isn't convinced that her vote was counted. After she pressed the vote button on her machine and left, a poll worker came after her and told her that her vote hadn't registered. (This took place at a public library polling place at 835 NE 132nd Street.)

058127 11/16/04, 12:41 PM PST Machine problem Norwood elementary, Miami, Miami-Dade County, Florida At close, counted 1003 electronic votes with 1015 total voters
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. More examples of Touch Screen Switch to Blank in Ohio and Calif in 2004(undervotes)
Franklin Co. Ohio
Switch to Blank (undervotes)
058641 11/18/04, 1:44 PM PST Machine problem indianola church of christ, franklin County, Ohio presidential button would not light up . voted without recording vote for president
051460 11/03/04, 12:10 PM PST Machine problem brookpark school, grove city, franklin County, Ohio when he went into voting booth to vote all lights on the screen were flashing except for the presidential candidates when he pressed his presidential selection no lights came on to indicate a selection. he pressed his selection four times all the other votes he selected had a light come on when he selected them. he did not bring the malfunction to anyone's attention. the booth left on (next to provisional ballot booth)
058748 11/19/04, 11:10 AM PST Machine problem 529 sawyer, franklin County, Ohio machine not working for kerry,
monitors whispering
033170 11/02/04, 7:38 AM PST Machine problem franklin County, Ohio Went in and tried to vote for president, but nothing lit up even though he pressed an option. Pressed "vote" and the machine went to the next screen. Complained to official and was told that there was nothing they could do.
030307 11/02/04, 5:42 AM PST Machine problem Franklin County, Ohio Voting machine button for Robert Clancy is not working
031048 11/02/04, 6:15 AM PST Machine problem Franklin County, Ohio Voting machine did not allow him to vote for president, or for school board.
058658 11/18/04, 2:22 PM PST Machine problem columbus firehous #21 3294 e. main st., columbus, franklin County, Ohio machine wouldn't take presidential vote finally did on 4th try
058810 11/19/04, 1:51 PM PST Machine problem Blendon Wylder Elementary, Westerville , Franklin County, Ohio Touch Screen - No presidential candidates - on confusing.
050291 11/02/04, 6:42 PM PST Machine problem Apple Canyon #6, Columbus, Franklin County, Ohio machine was blank... no review of ballot.



Not incrementing
058412 11/18/04, 7:39 AM PST Machine problem
Don’t work Franklin County, Ohio Machine #014083 Machine not counting up- others at ~ 130 " @ ~ 111

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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #79
81. More examples of Touch Screen Switch to Blank in Mahoning Co. Ohio in 2004
The following are some reports from Mahoning Co. that are similar to what I've seen reported by the voters in Sarasota. There were also some of these in Broward Co. in 2004.



047630 11/02/04, 4:40 PM PST Machine problem; Disability access problem; Long lines Hillman Elementary School, Mahoning County, Ohio Every time I tried to vote for the Democratic Party Presidential vote the machine went blank. I had to keep trying, it took 5 tries. The wait was forever because they only had 6 machines.

041949 11/02/04, 1:24 PM PST Machine problem Price Memorial Zion Church, Mahoning County, Ohio Voted in all categories. Went back to verify choices and found that the presidential box was not selected. Both this lady and her mother had it happen voting on different machines. Said that presidential vote option never appeared while they were going through trying to vote. Happened to a third lady at the same time, but I didn't speak to her.

042482 11/02/04, 1:35 PM PST Machine problem Tabernacle Baptist Church, Covington & Arlington Sts., Mahoning County, Ohio Voting machine number V0107749-C malfunctioning, screen flashes and scrolls, shows different results or no results. OVPC #14

042692 11/02/04, 1:39 PM PST Machine problem Price Memorial Zion Church, Mahoning County, Ohio Had to scroll through and revote 5 times before his votes were properly recorded. Poll workers acknowledged that that particular machines had been experiencing problems.

053321 11/05/04, 9:40 AM PST Machine problem Middle Lutheran Church, Youngstown, Mahoning County, Ohio Voting delay 1st machine did not work. Next machine started working and then it erased his votes. Eventually was able to vote. Touch screen voting.

029939 11/02/04, 5:22 AM PST Machine problem Mahoning County, Ohio 1st machine on right - problem

Mahoning County. The glass on top of one ES&S iVotronic electronic screen was too far from the screen, making it difficult for people to use their fingers to cast ballots. A screen went blank on a Youngstown voter while he cast his ballot. http://www.votersunite.org/article.asp?id=3674
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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
82. I was in Florida over the weekend
In the 13th, no less (Venice). I saw several yard signs for Jennings - some outside of million-dollar homes. None for Buchanan. Of course, this was post-election.

My friend's parents were Election Judges in one part of FL-13 (I think). They're Dems. So, if there was any thing funky going on, it wasn't their fault!
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stevenstevensteven Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
83. Where to look
Edited on Thu Nov-16-06 08:36 PM by stevenstevensteven
The undervote rate is unevenly distributed across the county, according to the Herald Tribute maps. The problem is therefore in the BDFs. The PEBs may also turn up something, but they don't have to. Auditing and recounting is a big waste of time. I certainly hope they have folks down there who know what they are doing, otherwise they'll spend a lot of time spinning their wheels.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. What do you mean regarding PEBs?
If important I'll pass the info on.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
86. Highest undervotes was in early voting- 17.3%; who were the early voters?
Edited on Thu Nov-16-06 11:49 PM by philb
Sarasota County- 2006 Source: SOE web page
Elec. Day ------------- Early Voting------------- Absentee---------- Total
ballots undervotes % UV ballots undervotes % UV ballots undervotes % UV ballots undervotes % UV

U.S. Senate 88,927 1,130 1.27% 30,832 262 0.85% 22,525 225 1.00% 142,284 1,617 1.14%

Cong. D13 88,927 12378 13.92% 30,832 5433 17.62% 22,525 571 2.53% 142,284 18,382 12.92%

Govenor 88,927 1821 2.05% 30,832 1249 4.05% 22,525 416 1.85% 142,284 3486 2.45%

At. Gen 88,927 4245 4.77% 30,832 1372 4.45% 22,525 586 2.60% 142,284 6203 4.36%

CFO 88,927 4159 4.68% 30,832 1238 4.02% 22,525 902 4.00% 142,284 6299 4.43%

Ag. Comm 88,927 4772 5.37% 30,832 1503 4.87% 22,525 1096 4.87% 142,284 7371 5.18%

CRB D1 88,927 8179 9.20% 30,832 2494 8.09% 22,525 2305 10.23% 142,284 12978 9.12%
Charter Review Board- District 1
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. huge difference in D13 and the other major race undervotes
likewise compared to Cong. Districts in neighboring counties like Manatee and Hillsborough,
some of which had precincts that voted in D13 also, yet had low undervotes.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-17-06 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
88. Interesting suggestion on Sarasota Tribune forum
A poster suggested the machines require a confirmation of an under vote. That makes sense to me although it might be a pain in the ass for voters who intentionally participate in only a handful of races.

It's not a "None of These" like we have in Nevada. But on DREs once you finish the rundown of the races you would have to physically check a box if indeed your intention is to skip the race. Something like, "You have chosen not to vote in this race. Is that your intention?" Followed by Yes and No boxes. If you select No the machine could revert to a page allowing a vote in the specific race. A Yes check moves to the next race you have skipped, to confirm that, or to the review screen if it was the only race you avoided.

I read the machines in FL-13 did highlight the race in red on the review screen if a vote was not registered, but that obviously was insufficient.

If we're stuck with these machines, maybe we need a requirement that major races like presidential, house, senate and gov each have a separate screen.

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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-18-06 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
90. All top level national or state races in Opti-S counties & most TS have low undervotes
Edited on Sat Nov-18-06 08:11 PM by philb
-----------U.S. Sen-Governor-At.Gen-CFO-Ag.Comm
-------------------------------------------------CD18-- CD25
Monroe------ 1.61% 1.13% 3.76% 5.23% 5.21%- 2.36% 0%
Collier------ 1.73% 0.79% 3.24% 6.29% 7.03%- CD24-- CD7--- CD8
Orange------ 1.59% 1.33% 3.91% 3.21% 4.76%- 3.49% 2.90% 1.82%
Brevard----- 0.88% 0.79% 1.93% 3.93% 3.34%- 2.80% -
Volusia ---- 1.01% 0.64% 2.10% 4.76% 4.16%- 2.17% 2.41%
Indian River 1.87% 1.09% 3.29% 4.61% 4.52%
Polk-------- 0.74% 0.54% 4.80% 2.31% 3.91%
Osceola----- 0.99% 0.23% 1.90% 2.67% 1.68%
Lake-------- 1.26% 1.06% 3.59% 5.06% 4.73%
Marion------ 1.05% 0.99% 3.09% 2.98% 4.18%

Pasco------- 1.59% 0.78% 4.50% 3.65% 5.32%
Pinellas---- 2.10% 0.77% 3.26% 4.34% 5.08%- CD9-- CD11
Hillsboro--- 1.78% 0.56% 3.35% 3.94% 4.84%- 4.32% 4.54%
---------------------------------------------------CD16- CD14- CD13
Charlotte--- 1.30% 0.77% 20.88% 3.95% 5.61%- 1.80% 2.00% 2.47%
Duval------- 1.31% 0.81% 2.61% 5.98% 4.86%
Hillsboro--- 1.62% 0.62% 3.15% 3.85% 4.59%
Palm Beach-- 1.27% 0.77% 2.12% 3.44% 3.17%
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-18-06 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. Note from table all comparable congressional races in Fl. counties had low undervotes
Most people who bother to go to the polls vote in the top level congressional races and also in top level
state races such as Governor and the 3 cabinet level races. The Jenning/Buchanan race was one of the closest and
highly competitive races in Florida with lots of ads and money spent, and lots of interest-
much more so than some of the other Congressional races that were not as close and where the Democrat candidate did not
have much money to spend on ads- compared to the very competitive D13 race.
Its clear that a large number of votes was lost due to some kind of computer manipulation or glitch, and based
on the testimony of voters and poll workers, its clear that most of the votes lost were Jennings.
Without the hack/glitch, its clear Jennings would have won by a considerable margin, as the polls all indicated.

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