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madame defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:53 AM
Original message
Read this RE: Woodward & Ohio 2004 elections
From TPM Cafe

Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)

I just came across a troubling incident that Bob Woodward reports in his new book. Very troubling.


Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)
mjrosenberg's picture
By M.J. Rosenberg | bio

I just came across a troubling incident that Bob Woodward reports in his new book. Very troubling.

section break

On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

So what happened?

James Carville gets on the phone with his wife, Mary Matalin, who is at the White House with Bush.

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

"Matalin went to Cheney to report...You better tell the President Cheney told her."

Matalin does, advising Bush that "somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican Secretary of State in Ohio who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes." An SOS goes out to Blackwell.

The rest is history.

Does something about this story stink to high heaven!


http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did...
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Missy M Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes it does...
my question is has anyone confronted Carville about this yet?
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. The day he married that creepy mary matalin, I thought that he
was a repug...
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madame defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Someone should confront Carville...
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 10:02 AM by madame defarge
I've always been very suspicious of the benefits of that relationship. Carville talks too much & Matalin clearly takes advantage of it for political gain.

So who do we get to confront Carville??? (I don't watch tv news/political shows except Keith, TDS, & TCR.) How do we get this out there so that more people become aware & make it an issue?
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Missy M Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Maybe someone like Paul Begala or even Tweety.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Carville would never act like this out of NAIVETE - if he did it, he did
it because some DEMOCRATS wanted him to do it.

But - - if Woodward is lying about this, then we need to back up Carville when he fights Woodward who is basically defining Carville as a traitor to the Democratic VOTERS.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. Question for the ER number crunchers, were the 250,000 provisionals
reduced to 120,000 by the voted provisional in wrong precinct that Blackwell fought up until the last days to implement?

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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. If it is true then that really stinks
because not only was there the provisional ballots but it turns out
almost million votes uncounted and called spoiled .... along with
all the cases of vote flips, voting machine shortages, non existent
terror warnings, and voter purges that if brought to light might
have forced the media to cover the story.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
6. I don't understand the article
How could knowledge that Kerry intended NOT to concede have changed anything. What does "The rest is history" mean? Whatever cheating Blackwell did -- and there was plenty of that -- why would have it turned out different whether Blackwell thought Kerry was going to concede or not?

and anyhow, he DID concede. Is this article suggesting that Blackwell used the knowledge that he intended not to concede to change his mind and get him to concede?

And it seems to me that "The rest is history" represents very sloppy journalism. Rosenburg had no idea how to interpret the information, so he says "The rest is history", as if it ought to be obvious. I'd really like to hear some opinion on what this all meant.


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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Because there were 250,000 P. ballots in the morning
and the margin was 120,000 by afternoon when Kerry conceded
the number of provisional ballots were not enough to make up the
difference.

By Jim C telling the White House Kerry's plan the White House
then contacted Blackwell and their Ohio thugs and "fixed" the
reason for Kerry's challenge.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. The sudden 'Homeland Security' threat and the lockdown?
I remember seeing some slime ball interviewed at about that time.
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farmbo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Blackwell started "disappearing" ballots; both provisionals and absentee.
Woodward's book doesn't articulate it well, but that's what he must be referring to.

The only person with a handle on the total number of provisionals and absentee ballots was Blackwell. While each county BOE could survey their own results-- indeed Cuyahoga had nearly 100,000 alone-- only Blackwell knew the total statewide numbers. Greg Palast places their numbers at 300,000 based on his post- election analysis of county-by-county results.

Blackwell (perhaps in response to the Carvell call) began systematically low balling these numbers and releasing the cooked results to the press. Kerry woke up to the inevitable headlines: "Bush's margin 130,000; only 120,000 uncounted ballots."

In the case of absentee ballots, which in this election would favor Kerry, there is anecdotal evidence that a loose alliance of SOS people systematically dumped or destroyed many.
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diva77 Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. do you have a link for timeline of all the events that occurred in
Ohio?
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Here are some links from memory lane 2004
This is court documents filed by Kerry/Edwards
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://forum.truthout.org/blog/story/2005/2/24/183243/7...

Ohio Officials Begin Voting Machine Fight
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

S.O.S. in Ohio did not allow recount of 3% sample in DRE TS counties-why?http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

OH Sanctions = Unitended consequence is more fraud documentation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

45 DOCUMENTED AREAS OF VOTE FRAUD IN OHIO
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Washingtonpost Column: "What Happened in Ohio"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

OHIO ELECTION FRAUD: ANOTHER SUSPECT: PLEASE READ!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Warren County recount - snookered? What Happened?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Blackwell blocks precinct books viewing until AFTER Jan. 6th
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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diva77 Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. thanks, rumpel!
so much reading to catch up on!

:hangover:
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Well it would be nice, if that is the issue, if the article said something
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 11:57 AM by Time for change
about it.

I have read several books and dozens of articles on the fraud surrounding the Ohio election, and never have I come across anything that suggests 130,000 disappeared votes as part of the issue. I've read Conyers' report, Freeman's book, Fitraikis' book, and MCM's book, and none of them deals with that. If that is the issue then the article should talk about it.

The disappearance of 130,000 votes should obviously be a major issue, calling for widespread investigation. We should really know more about that if that is the problem.

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PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. You're right...
the Devil here reallis is in the details. And what's more, why would Kerry just throw up his hands b/c some functionary asshole screwed him and his party AGAIN! You'd think one round with K. Harris would have taught them something.

I believe that there were other, more nefarious pressures on Kerry.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Yeah, like those nefarious image managers. n/t
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Like nefarious DNC's Office of Voter Integrity who opted to NOT COUNTER
the four year efforts of the RNC and its operatives working to suppress votes, purge voter rolls, and rig machines all over the country.

Kerry won. The Dem party infrastructure did not secure the election process for the Democratic voters and the Democratic candidates as they were charged to do from 2001 through 2004.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. Can someone please answer this question for me?
It was common knowledge that Ken Blackwell was pulling every dirty trick he could BEFORE the elections.

Why on Earth would John Kerry's people trust him to accurately report the number of ballots in play AFTER the election?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Kerry wasn't trusting Blackwell, he trusted the Dem PARTY numbercrunchers
Edited on Sun Oct-08-06 03:16 PM by blm
to tell him the facts he needed to make the most informed decision.

When did the nominee become the only person supposed to handle the four years worth of duties that the Dem PARTY is charged with between every election cycle?

And why would anyone distract from the infrastructure problem that created this mess in an effort to put all focus on Kerry as if he controlled that party infrastructure responsible for securing the election process and the vote count?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Still doesn't account for the supposed reaction from Camp Kerry.
My bet is, the Kerry people knew they were dealing with slime and that this story is Woodward BushCo bull.

So, save your defense of Kerry because I don't believe he'd buy into anything Blackheart would say or do for a single second.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Blackwell, no. PARTY experts on numbercrunching, YES. Big difference.
Why pretend he wasn't surrounded by party election experts dealing with election law and vote counting?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I'm not?
No way this lays only at Kerry's door although he was in charge.

See what I mean? This story has been put out to make us rehash 2004 when we could be looking around for candidates to support.

That's really my only point.

Carville should answer this bit of bull but not before we do our utmost for the races we can win.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. I come down on the side of doing both.
And if it turns out the story is false, I'll defend Carville as I did Clinton and 9-11 lie.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. That sounds right to me. And in mho, we should be really aware
of the BFEE shills in the next few weeks.
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-08-06 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
16. No wonder Blackwell refused to testify or answer any questions to
Conyers.

I'd say depose Blackwell and put him on the witness stand!
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