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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:09 AM
Original message
crispin miller- what to do?
saw mark crispin miller, bob koehler and bob fiterakis yesterday out in dupage county. it was very interesting, and encouraging.
mcm had this bit of advise- we MUST refuse to accept the results of these "elections". just refuse. if mexico can do it, so can we.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. MCM was interviewed by Jim Lampley (filling in one day for Ed Schultz)
and said we must be ready to BOYCOTT, I agree- even if it means shutting down the economy until our elections can be trusted. I don't think the majority of the Dems (esp DLC corp types) have a stomach for this, so it must be lead by the people.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. his talk was inspiring
pounding home the danger of these theocrats, and the clear and present danger that they present to us. but also pounding home that they DO NOT HAVE THE VOTES TO RULE. only fraud can keep them in power.
i think general strikes would work. but i think about 90% of the democratic party need to grow some huevos.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Wish I was there. Did Fitrakis deliever any breaking news? He likes
to deliver some big puches at events like this and he has a few aces up his sleeve.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. i confess i bopped in and out a little during fitrakis' remarks
i was there with my buttons, and keeping one eye on the lobby while trying to listen. i did not hear anything that i had not heard before. he is quite a story teller. very funny guy.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. I think we have to get our candidates to fight after the election
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 11:19 AM by LSK
We cannot have another John Kerry concession speech the next day. All the candidates must fight the results hard. And we have to get that message to our candidates.

I spoke to MCM for a minute afterwards and he feared the GOP would pick a few close races and claim that the Dems are committing the election fraud.

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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. i agree with this completely. they already did this last time.
tire slashing and all that. i fully expect a set up of some sort.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. We got a taste of that with Liberman's website going down and the Cables
carrying on that Lieberman's group said it was the Dems that did it. On election day the M$M will take Repug's talking points about "reports of Democrats election fraud and broadcast them all day...drowning out legitimate Dem reports of disenfranchisment and repug shenanigans. It's the machine counts afterward we need to focus on though. Hopefully our candidates are now aware of what can go wrong...
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. refuse to accept all election results - or just the ones we don't like?
are we only going to refuse to accept election results if
Democrats lose, or do we refuse to accept all election results across the board?

Should we refuse to accept that any representatives currently holding office
are illegitimately doing so?

Should we refuse to accept the results of the Connecticut primary?

I do believe that when candidates include in their campaign promises
that they will see to it that all votes are counted, that they actually
do that.


If a politician raises about $15 million for legal and recount funds,
then I think this should be used for recounts.

One place that $1.3 million of Kerry's $15 mill in recount and litigation
money could have been used was in New Mexico, where there were phantom votes and a high rate
also of undervotes - for president.

Democratic Governor Richardson refused to accept a deposit of a bit
over $100K to request the recount, and told the Greens and Libs
they would have to come up with $1.3 million in advance.

If only there were some money to pay for that recount... but where oh
where to find it?

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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. this is a non-partisan issue. all votes that cannot be seen
cannot be trusted. but beyond that, we know the hallmarks of a phony count now. counting that stops and starts again with a surge for the trailing candidate. technicians who fiddle with machines in the middle of the day. polling places with long lines.
we knew long before election day that blackwell was intent on stealing ohio.
i get more and more cynical the older i get, but it is never enough to keep up. we all need a big dose, now, tho.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. no, watch exit polls and surprise results n/t
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GuvWurld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
9. Yes, this is what we did in Humboldt, twice now
First, in June 2005 when it was announced that CA would have an election in November for Arnold's special initiatives, the Voter Confidence Committee put out this press release (excerpt):

The Voter Confidence Committee (VCC) of Humboldt County, California, an election reform and watchdog group, announced today it will not accept as conclusive any results from the special statewide election called for Nov. 8 by Governor Schwarzenegger. Citing the election reform platform of the Voter Confidence Resolution, the VCC maintains that this election will be held under conditions that do not ensure an outcome that is conclusive beyond all question and indicative of the will of California voters.

"Until corporate money is removed from elections, voting systems are no longer privatized, and vote counting is not done in secret, election results in America can't be seen as beyond question," said VCC principal Dave Berman. "And until these deficiencies are remedied in California, how can we possibly have a basis for confidence in election results?"


Unfortunately we didn't do appropriate follow-up, though we did conduct a parallel election. But then on June 6, 2006, the date of the CA Primary Election, we held a press conference to make this announcement (excerpts):


Thank you all for being here. My name is Dave Berman and I work with the election watchdog group the Voter Confidence Committee. We are here tonight first of all to announce that we do not and will not accept the unverified results reported by secret vote counting machines. Humboldt County uses Diebold optical scanners to count our ballots. For those who may not know how this works, let me briefly explain.

Humboldt voters mark a paper ballot, which could and should be counted by hand. Instead, the ballot is fed into the optical scanner. The ballot does not simply come out the other end to reveal the results. While inside the scanner, computer programming interprets the information from the ballots and converts it into AccuBasic. This is Diebolds proprietary programming language. Neither the public, nor the media, nor even our elections officials are allowed to examine the interpreter code or AccuBasic language, which Diebold claims as a trade secret.

So think about it now. All the info from all the ballots is in a form that can only be read by Diebold. This is the same Diebold facing more than a half dozen class action suits from shareholders alleging fraud. The same Diebold whose flawed machines have been documented in reports from the Government Accountability Office and even our own CA Secretary of State. The same Diebold exposed by security experts who performed test hacks to demonstrate the ability to change election results without a trace. The same Diebold whose PR flunkie addressed such problems by saying, "It's only a vulnerability to those who would commit a felony." The VCC agrees that tampering with an election is a felony, and the equipment that would allow it should never be used.

(snip)

...The solution to this dilemma has two parts.

First, the VCC asks that media not report what it cannot prove. The media should not publish or broadcast as fact what it cannot independently verify. These should be basic tenets of anyones journalistic integrity.

Second, to determine conclusive results to the election, the VCC asks that the media join us in prevailing upon the Elections Department and County Supervisors to allow for a full hand count to be conducted by Humboldt citizens.

The VCC will hold a demonstration tomorrow morning at 10am at the Elections Department at H and Harris Streets in Eureka. Our actions are not based on the results but because of the conditions of this election. Thank you.


This resulted in two searing editorials holding the media accountable for reporting what they can't prove and haven't independently verified. These essays resulted in a series of community forums on the topic of media accountability, the first of which is scheduled for Sept. 21.

What is important is that we change the overall dialog. It has been controlled for too long with misinformation, scare tactics, and other propaganda. It is not enough for candidates to pledge to do something after the election. The time to act is now, before another fraud can be perpetrated under the guise of being an election. The government's legitimacy can only come from one place and that is the Consent of the Governed. Our message: We Do Not Consent.
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