How 'Bout Having Hand Counted Paper Ballot (HCPB) Houseparties

[diva77]

to demonstrate the ease of HCPB. Enough talk! Time to take action! Each party will be provided a designated number of simulated ballots and will be asked to perform the various hcpb methods and report count times and accuracy:party:.

[Dogmudgeon]

1. What's HCPB?

--p!

[diva77]

2. hcpb = Hand Counted Paper Ballots

sorry, I shouldn't assume everyone knows what hcpb means! Luckily I was able to go back and edit original post!

[diva77]

3. perhaps I should elaborate on this idea -- it was a serious proposition

to debunk whatever anti-hcpb myths are floating about and to bring awareness to citizens of the situation with non-transparent e-voting, and to garner citizen support and participation in bringing about a return to hcpb. I envision a website where people can download materials and use them for the parties.

:blush:

[livvy]

4. I thought of an idea the other evening...

No need to make up fake ballots. One could just use two or more different decks of cards. Use a total of 100 cards. Scramble them up well. Then go to work sorting and time it. (The decks represent different colored ballots)
Next step is to divide each stack, pretending there are two candidates/issues only, red for one - black for the other. Then count and record. See how much time this took, then multiply the time to get an idea of how long it would take if there were 1,000 ballots, or however many you want in your hand count.
Maybe I'll try it today, if I can find where I put all the decks of cards I used to have.

On edit: Ok, I just did this. 100 scrambled cards divided up into 4 piles and counted each. It took just over 4 minutes. Now, I know it would take longer than this to count/sort actually ballots, unless each ballot was about the size/weight of a playing card. Cards are stiff, tagboard weight, and the colors (red/black) jump out easily for separating.
Anyway, going by this little experiment, 1,000 ballots would take 40 minutes, etc.
I might try some other configurations today.

[diva77]

5. I like your card idea -

will look forward to hearing more!

[livvy]

6. I did a different experiment.

I used same 100 cards to represent 2 colored ballots, but this time, I pretended there were 4 candidates on each ballot, and sorted by suit. This time the whole process took about 4min 40 seconds. So additional candidates for the same office would not add much time. The key to quick sorting is one issue per card. So voters would need one card for Senate race, one for County Commissioner, one for the tax increase, etc. A voter would be handed a "stack of cards". Hell, why don't "we" make them sort 'em? Have them put each card in the correct color-coded box. That would cut down on time, too.

[diva77]

7. even though I like your idea, I don't foresee being able to change the way

the ballots are made immediately (at least not with the climate with most counties in CA right now). would like to include idea of handcounting the paper ballots available currently. there is a whole bureaucratic process to go thru to certify the manufacture/printing of ballots and that would hold up the immediate goal. most ballots are 8.5 x 11 or 8.5 x 14 and in rare cases, 8.5 x 18

will post paper stock wt. specs. later unless someone else has link

(but, hopefully in the future your idea can be explored further and possibly implemented!)

[Kelvin Mace]

9. Ballot stock is usually

80-110 lbs.

[livvy]

10. I understand that completely.I guess my intent was misinterpreted.

I never meant to imply that the whole system would be changed tomorrow. I was just trying to get a feel for the idea of sorting/counting "ballots", and the time required to do it. Obviously, the currently used ballots are much larger, and would add on to the time. Plus I would hope people would inspect them carefully for accuracy.
I was basically just playing with the idea, and sharing what I found out.

Sorry, I will go off to my room now, and play by myself. I'll let you get on with ideas and such that are more applicable to your needs. :cry:

Just kidding...:)

[diva77]

14. I guess I did say "party!!"

gorsh, did not mean to condescend. You are no longer grounded and are encouraged to share any and all ideas, including those having to do with playing cards! :toast:

[Kelvin Mace]

8. Cards.are.not.ballots

In my county ballots are 11x17 and in the last general election had 36 races.

Counting 1,500 ballots that size under secure conditions is quite a different thing than counting playing cards.

[livvy]

11. Gee, Kelvin...do 'ya think?

Lighten up. Every.post.does.not.have.to.be.a.State.of.the.Union.Address. It was just a little experiment to get a feel for the idea.
Here, you may borrow my ultra-secret relaxation machine



And, I'm just kidding with you, too. :)

[OnTheOtherHand]

12. wow, that looks good! n/t

[Kelvin Mace]

13. Sorry, Livvy

you are right.

I'm tense about the Lamont/Liebermn race. I forgot you are one of the more sensible folk.

<deep breath>

OK, I feel better.