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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 12:50 AM Original message |
Its Impossible To Hand Count The Ballots? |
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bleever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 01:13 AM Response to Original message |
1. What's so hard? We got ballots, we got hands, and we got time. |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 04:25 PM Response to Reply #1 |
43. Huh? |
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bleever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 10:58 PM Response to Reply #43 |
63. The technology is hand counting, in this case. |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:33 PM Response to Reply #63 |
86. The complexity of the ballot |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 03:17 AM Response to Original message |
2. Nice to know that small towns where everybody knows everybody else-- |
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electropop (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 06:42 AM Response to Reply #2 |
5. India does it with over a BILLION people. It''s not that hard. |
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WillYourVoteBCounted (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 01:38 PM Response to Reply #5 |
19. 2004 India had all-electronic vote |
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electropop (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 03:05 PM Response to Reply #19 |
30. Well, OK. How about Canada or the UK? |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 03:16 PM Response to Reply #30 |
31. Well, read my posts |
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electropop (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 03:20 PM Response to Reply #31 |
32. We have precincts. |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 03:40 PM Response to Reply #32 |
35. I think the ideal unit for counting |
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LuckyChoice (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 07:26 PM Response to Reply #35 |
105. better to count at the polling place |
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lonestarnot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 01:53 AM Response to Reply #35 |
131. Presidential elections should be held with election of a President |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 01:50 PM Response to Reply #5 |
22. India's ballots are simpler |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 09:40 AM Response to Reply #2 |
9. I've decided to adopt a "show me" approach |
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diva77 (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 11:40 AM Response to Reply #2 |
12. with this logic that would mean that large counties shouldn't have juries |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 01:21 PM Response to Reply #12 |
16. We have 147 ballots styles |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 01:29 PM Response to Reply #16 |
18. Yeah. |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 02:01 PM Response to Reply #18 |
27. I think they started getting complicated |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 02:10 PM Response to Reply #27 |
28. multifarious electoral geographies have a lot to do with it |
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electropop (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 03:29 PM Response to Reply #28 |
33. So what? |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 04:25 PM Response to Reply #33 |
44. please refer to post #9 n/t |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 03:41 PM Response to Reply #28 |
36. Agreed |
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JimDandy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 12:47 AM Response to Reply #28 |
66. "Voice of the People" was published in 1997. |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 07:20 AM Response to Reply #66 |
78. that's an interesting point |
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JimDandy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 11:57 PM Response to Reply #16 |
65. Surely there aren't 147 ballot syles |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:19 AM Response to Reply #12 |
71. There are 7000+ ballot formats in King County, WA |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 08:21 PM Response to Reply #71 |
110. We keep trying to explain reality to them |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 11:54 AM Response to Reply #2 |
13. We count hand-ballots |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 12:05 PM Response to Reply #13 |
14. Did you say tranported, maybe I can interest your country in to buying |
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mod mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 12:45 PM Response to Reply #14 |
15. Count at the precinct level so no hanky panky in transport occurs and |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 01:51 PM Response to Reply #15 |
23. I can steal an election right in front of a camera |
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mod mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 04:36 PM Response to Reply #23 |
45. So you advocate using machines? |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 05:03 PM Response to Reply #45 |
47. Oh, have you been paying attention? |
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mod mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 06:16 PM Response to Reply #47 |
54. Why the need for Op-Scan? Why use any machine that can provide errors? |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 07:00 PM Response to Reply #54 |
58. Properly performed audits are quite good |
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mod mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 06:37 AM Response to Reply #58 |
76. 1. You're still suggesting funnelling $ to GOP Corporations with higher |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 08:59 AM Response to Reply #76 |
81. Actually, properly |
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mod mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 10:20 AM Response to Reply #81 |
83. Standardized ballots can be used with HCPB. What occured pre-machine? |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:30 PM Response to Reply #83 |
85. Optical scan and early TS |
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mod mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:41 PM Response to Reply #85 |
88. 2001 CalTech/MIT study of HCPB have the lowest incidence of spoiled, |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:24 PM Response to Reply #88 |
92. Kimball 2005 finds lower residual rates for precinct-count op-scan |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:27 PM Response to Reply #88 |
93. Where to begin |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:32 PM Response to Reply #93 |
95. wish granted |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:40 PM Response to Reply #95 |
97. Well, remind me to dance at your wedding |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 03:16 PM Response to Reply #97 |
98. too late, but our 16th anniversary is coming up |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 03:45 PM Response to Reply #98 |
99. Which is why we are pressing our BoE |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 11:03 PM Response to Reply #93 |
118. Paper beats opscan for counting single races, though |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 08:10 AM Response to Reply #118 |
123. could you say a bit more about this? |
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Wiley50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 08:07 PM Response to Reply #93 |
129. Where to Begin? |
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JimDandy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 10:52 PM Response to Reply #88 |
117. He doesn't seem to get that |
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JimDandy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:04 AM Response to Reply #23 |
68. Yes... |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 03:47 PM Response to Reply #68 |
100. You can steal elections right in front of a camera |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 01:28 PM Response to Reply #14 |
17. Transport really isn't a problem |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 03:36 PM Response to Reply #17 |
34. Absolutely, you get a good guestamate at a glance |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 03:58 PM Response to Reply #34 |
39. Well, we mark our ballots in secret |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 04:20 PM Response to Reply #39 |
41. Thats the beauty part of the clear box, you can know at a glance |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 04:53 PM Response to Reply #41 |
46. Yeah, but if you do it in full view |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 05:35 PM Response to Reply #46 |
48. Close the curtain behind you |
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Febble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 05:55 PM Response to Reply #48 |
51. Yes, you need a curtain, |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 06:20 PM Response to Reply #51 |
56. That makes to much sense for America to do, out in the open |
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salvorhardin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 06:00 PM Response to Reply #41 |
52. Hmm. Maybe a slight problem. |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 06:24 PM Response to Reply #52 |
57. Take a look at these babies, even I could get a guestimate on |
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salvorhardin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 07:45 PM Response to Reply #57 |
59. Would these be the boxes voters deposit their ballots into? |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 10:20 PM Response to Reply #59 |
62. My thought is, and I'm not an expert |
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JimDandy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:13 AM Response to Reply #62 |
69. kster, I've always liked this idea, but |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 11:10 AM Response to Reply #69 |
84. If thats the case, then we need to |
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LuckyChoice (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 07:46 PM Response to Reply #17 |
107. I agree with your assertion |
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heartofthesiskiyou (335 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 05:43 PM Response to Reply #2 |
49. You're looking at |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 06:11 PM Response to Reply #49 |
53. a bit of revisionism here |
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mod mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 08:32 PM Response to Reply #49 |
60. Amen. nt Low tech rules in vote counting! |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 03:52 PM Response to Reply #49 |
101. Could you supply me with the source for your figures |
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WillYourVoteBCounted (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 09:25 PM Response to Reply #49 |
116. this isn't correct - NC had 3 hand counting counties in 2004 |
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nealmhughes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 03:29 AM Response to Original message |
3. Didn't we manage to do it in the 18th, 19th, and a great part of the 20th |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 01:53 PM Response to Reply #3 |
24. Yes, with a population a fraction of today's |
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JimDandy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 03:22 AM Response to Reply #24 |
73. The population, |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:41 PM Response to Reply #73 |
89. I am not concerned with what anyone on BBV.org |
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LuckyChoice (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 07:58 PM Response to Reply #73 |
108. yes, "voting population per precinct" |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 08:24 PM Response to Reply #108 |
111. Interesting |
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Bear down under (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 06:04 AM Response to Original message |
4. We do it in Australia |
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tbyg52 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 10:57 AM Response to Reply #4 |
10. I thought you had an open-source electronic voting machine? |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:24 AM Response to Reply #10 |
72. An open source system has been developed-- |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 01:53 PM Response to Reply #4 |
25. How many races/issues |
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LuckyChoice (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 08:02 PM Response to Reply #4 |
109. What about New Zealand? |
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rman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 08:04 AM Response to Original message |
6. sure, there were no elections before e-voting |
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mod mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 08:16 AM Response to Original message |
7. It can be done. It's time to throw out the machines and stop funnelling $ |
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tbyg52 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 10:58 AM Response to Reply #7 |
11. Throw all the machines out! |
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mom cat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 08:35 AM Response to Original message |
8. People in the civilized world do it all the time! |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 01:58 PM Response to Reply #8 |
26. Here's what I want to see |
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WillYourVoteBCounted (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 01:47 PM Response to Original message |
20. can you describe your experience doing the hand counts? |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 01:48 PM Response to Original message |
21. Let's do a comparison |
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Kolesar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 03:01 PM Response to Reply #21 |
29. It's a scalable problem. 10x the ballots, use 10x the number of counters |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 03:47 PM Response to Reply #29 |
37. No, it is NOT a scalable problem |
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Kolesar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 04:02 PM Response to Reply #37 |
40. Rules are rules |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 04:23 PM Response to Reply #40 |
42. There is a big difference |
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Kolesar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 06:29 AM Response to Reply #42 |
75. Cleveland voting activist Victoria Lovegren is an advocate of paper ballot |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:35 PM Response to Reply #75 |
87. So, she is the only person on the planet |
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Kolesar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:12 PM Response to Reply #87 |
91. You need a beer |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:27 PM Response to Reply #91 |
94. I may yet have to take up drinking |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 03:52 PM Response to Reply #29 |
38. We could look at the second video see how they do |
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mod mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 06:19 PM Response to Reply #21 |
55. Funny, Europeans which if I recall correctly have large cities can handle |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 08:37 PM Response to Reply #55 |
61. I'll say it yet again |
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Kolesar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 06:25 AM Response to Reply #61 |
74. Well, make the ballots uniform, then |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 08:47 AM Response to Reply #74 |
80. That comes next |
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mod mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 06:49 AM Response to Reply #61 |
77. It's not uniform ballots because every area has different races. If the |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 08:46 AM Response to Reply #77 |
79. By uniform ballot |
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mod mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:48 PM Response to Reply #79 |
90. I audited Diebold Optiscan ballots from Lucas Co OH and there were |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:32 PM Response to Reply #90 |
96. Then again, I say to you |
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WillYourVoteBCounted (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 05:53 PM Response to Original message |
50. do you have any legislation introduced? |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Aug-02-06 11:26 PM Response to Reply #50 |
64. I'm not sure of the number, I think 84% of the people |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 09:03 AM Response to Reply #64 |
82. So far, 87% of the folks on this forum |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 01:21 AM Response to Reply #82 |
121. Where did you come up with that figure? Tea leaves? |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 12:21 PM Response to Reply #121 |
125. It's called a poll |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 01:46 AM Response to Reply #125 |
130. LINK TO POLL? |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:29 AM Response to Reply #130 |
132. this is not at all hard to find |
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WillYourVoteBCounted (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 12:57 AM Response to Original message |
67. Thinking You Are Right is Not a Strategy |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 06:26 PM Response to Reply #67 |
102. I was also also inspired by divas thread, but this |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 06:47 PM Response to Reply #102 |
103. try reading the post again |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 07:16 PM Response to Reply #103 |
104. Watch the videos again, it does all those things and more |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 08:27 PM Response to Reply #104 |
113. It shows that HCPB |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 08:45 PM Response to Reply #104 |
115. what more do you need to do? it depends |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 11:11 PM Response to Reply #104 |
119. It says nothing relevant to this particular elections activist-- |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 08:29 PM Response to Reply #102 |
114. The video |
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LuckyChoice (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 07:31 PM Response to Reply #67 |
106. yes, people need more information |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 08:25 PM Response to Reply #106 |
112. Exactly what infomration is missing? |
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Bill Bored (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:17 AM Response to Original message |
70. I don't think it's impossible |
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autorank (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 11:22 PM Response to Original message |
120. kster makes a positive post and gets savaged. It's the 550 crew! |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 07:54 AM Response to Reply #120 |
122. well, that's the problem |
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autorank (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 12:01 PM Response to Reply #120 |
124. If you're on "ignore" leave me alone. n/t |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 12:22 PM Response to Reply #124 |
126. I love it when people deal |
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OnTheOtherHand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 12:43 PM Response to Reply #126 |
128. or by calling people out and then asking to be left alone |
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Kelvin Mace (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 12:24 PM Response to Reply #120 |
127. Please show where he was "savaged" |
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kster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-24-06 06:34 PM Response to Original message |
133. kick.nt |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Fri Apr 19th 2024, 06:01 PM Response to Original message |
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