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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 09:49 AM
Original message
Bev Harris has slipped completely into paranoid delusion
This was just sent to me by an "alert reader"

http://thoughtcrimes.org/bbv/quixote.htm

Bev is responding to questions from someone named Joe Hall about Bev's Proctoscope, er... I mean "VotoScope".

First, let's end the secret society business. Then we'll cooperate with you, when your group is showing the public face and the accountability that is expected of the election reform community.

Joe, you, John Gideon, and selected others are a member of the private "Quixote Group," which has been operating for nearly three years now, and has attempted to wrest the diverse "swarm" of leaders in the U.S. into one set of individuals who are compliant with a private agenda. Those who aren't on the right page are marginalized, discredited, shunned, or blackballed.


I checked into this. The Quixote Group is a mailing list of academics discussing EVM issues and solutions. The name derives from the Quixotic (someone can explain that to Bev) task they face of changing the voting system.

Please provide a written description of the secret society called the Quixote Group -- the set of individuals who are funded by the Quixote Foundation who have been working on a specific agenda that they do not reveal.


Don't you love how she throws around terms like "secret society"? Absolutely GUARANTEED to have the less mentally stable members of her band wetting their pants with joy.

Is that a nonprofit entity?

Wbo are its directors?

What is its mission?

Please provide a description of the agenda and strategy of the private club called the Quixote Group / EVN of which you are a part.

Who are its members?



Dontcha just love how Bev asks all these questions in true interrogator style, yet she has yet to answer our questions about the disposition of almost $1 million and why she posted a fake IRS Form 990?

Why is it a secret?


Actually, it's not very secret in that it took me five minutes to find out about it. The reason the list is invitation only is to keep loonies like Bev off the list. A noble goal, if you ask me.

Is it true that in order to get into this secret society one must be "nominated" by the other secret members, then voted on?

Is it true that one of the criteria for becoming nominated into the secret club is that the person will not bring in an opposing point of view?


Notice she keeps hammering on the term "secret society". Like her "friend" George Bush, she understands that repetition is the key to making a smear stick.

Is there a nondisclosure agreement in relation to your activities?

Why can't the election reform community debate the merits of your master plan in public?


Because they are trying to have an intelligent conversation involving logic and rational discourse and people like you are always horning in and calling any plan that threatens your bank roll, a conspiracy.

It appears to me that this entity is designed to put forth an agenda that is not properly vetted among the election reform community.


Apparently, it is now necessary for people to obtain Bev's permission before even being allowed to discuss this topic. After all, Bev Harris owns the entire issue and will sue anyone who discusses it without her permission.

You come here and harvest our materials -- that's basically what you do. Well, they are available to the public.

But how do you explain the existence of a private club, with no one who can be held accountable, accessible only through invitations and a secret handshake, which is amassing financial support and cherry-picking leaders in election reform with no public accountability whatsoever?


Again, we make all sorts of broad accusations, yet offer ZERO evidence backing up the accusations.

The Quixote Foundation is invested in things like Halliburton, Eli Lilly, and -- yes -- Diebold. I assume that they are a plaintiff in the Diebold stockholder suits.


Again, no evidence.

Did you know that Bev Harris is a wholly owned subsidiary of Satan? Its true, my cat told me and she never lies.

Is this part of the secret and private think tank set that the Washington Post recently reported on?


Yet Bev can't seem to provide a link to this story, demonstrating once again that the most basic of modern computer skills eludes her competence.

What role has the Quixote organization had in the swiftboat campaigns against those in election reform who represent a threat to the private agenda?


Bev has discovered a new term, "Swift boat". She will use it a lot.

BTW, the only person I know in the smear business is.... YOU!

Am I correct in my understanding that this secret and never publicly vetted strategy is heavy on keeping technology in the mix, heavy on legislation like Rush Holt, relies on certain types of litigation (but only when it keeps technology in the solution), and works privately with a few candidates?


No, you are not correct, but you never are on matters of any consequence.

That the Quixote organization was involved in attempting to sabotage the original Votergate film, preventing it from ever coming out unless it capitulated to the Quixote "solutions"?


Again, none of that pesky proof is offered, just Bev's utterly baseless allegations.

How much interaction has your group had with the vendor lobbying group, the ITAA?


Here we ask damning questions which impugn people's integrity even if answered in the negative.

Here's an example for Bev:

How much interaction has BBV.org had with the North American Man/Boy Love Association?

Is it true that a member of your group obtained and leaked the information Hursti II report without authorization, BEFORE we released it, to all the members of the Quixote List?

Please provide any and all connections, communications, strategy, planning, or support of David Allen, Roxanne Jekot, or Democratic Underground.


Ah, Bev's perennial bogey men.

Bev, please provide any and all connections, communications, strategy, planning, or support of Kim Jung Il, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden or Al Qaida.

Please describe whether Jim Adler or Votehere has ever played any role in the Quixote endeavors.

Provide the accountability of this group at this time, including its governance, its solution agenda, its financials and its key members.


I'm sorry, and you would be who? I don't think people are required to talk to you just because you say they are, just as they are not required to talk to mentally suspect street people panhandling for spare change on the roadside.

You have not been forthcoming with us. You have never described your role in the Quixote organization, or what it is, or what it is using our materials for.


Pot.Kettle.Black.

We are not interested in assisting any secret society, private club, or secret agenda, particularly when we have learned that it has been involved in attempts to control and manipulate the message, and/or "swiftboat" campaigns.


Hammer on "secret" and mention "swift boat" again.

Is it true that there are two levels of planning and information sharing -- one which invited members know about and another at a more senior level, which most participants of the Quixote list are not aware of?


It's true, but you have to be a 33rd level Mason to get the information. Fnord!

Is Quixote involved in blackballing actions to prevent the hand counted paper ballots people from being invited to or participating in national conferences?


Apparently Bev is not getting invited to things she thinks she should be invited to, and that must because of a conspiracy, not because of her irrational and highly questionable behaviour.

I'm sure some of what's being said about the secret Quixote Group think tank is misinformation. It's hard to know when the whole thing relies on a secret handshake, though, isn't it?


Well, since most of the "misinformation" about the group is contained in this post, you should know. And what is Bev's obsession with "secret handshakes"? Is she pissed that she can't join the Masons? But hey, she got the word "secret" in two more times.

(For our players at home keeping score, Bev has used the word "secret" THIRTEEN times in a single post, a new record for paranoid psychotics).

Now is a good time to go public or expect more intensive examination of the agenda and people behind this group.


Oooo, a threat. Bev is about to put the dogs on you.

OK folks, the evidence is pretty clear. This woman is nuts.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. Again? She does it so frequently I really believe a better phrase...
...would be "slips into sanity" when she doesn't act this way.

PB
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. she's always been there
the difference is that now some of her former partners have had a fallout over money and so they've turned on her.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Pointing a finger at anyone specifically?
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. you accused me of being Fredda Weinberg
whoever that is, and for working for Diebold.

That's pretty paranoid.

I guess you were ok with paranoia when you were on better financial terms with Bev Harris.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Really?
I believe I have apologized for earlier behavior, publicy.

I did not part with Bev over money, Bev dumped me to persue her qui tam, which is something I would never have agreed to if I had known about it. She also parted company because I would not back up her insane stories.

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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I'm not asking for an apology
I'm just pointing out that you once had a different position on Bev Harris's paranoia. When your booksellling partnership was still going on, you were all for it.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. another point of view
I don't think that is the case.

Kelvin has done too much at his own expense to be in this for the money,
IMHO, or based on my observations.
He has hopped all over the state and to the legislature.
He has worked with some tough people to work with,
and it was all at his own expense.
He didn't get one dime, and this work went on for years.
None of us did or do.

I realize that some organizations need money, so I urge donations
to election reform groups -- just not to mine.


The people in our state feel ownership of their law,
because they earned it, they had to participate in getting it


Kelvin can get along with some pretty difficult people,
(including me) and is more forgiving than me.

So I think, I say think - that this is not about money.

Somewhere along the line, a friend was hurt,
and that person's friends just didn't get over it.

That is where the upset amongst some in the election reform
community comes from.

How do you fix that?

I am reading minds here, but I don't think Kelvin cares about
the stuff that happened to him as much as to others.

As for the computer scientists in this bbv message, it looks like
they try to work with BBV.org

You can read where they have reviewed Harri Hursti's Hacks and
his work was included in and referred to in the Brennan Center report.
They do attribute credit to Bev Harris for work she has done, as far as
I can see.

Yet, you see these same scientists being talked about in a accusatory way.

*Note - My comments are my own personal opinion, I do not speak on behalf
of Kelvin Mace.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I appreciate the vote of confidence
there is no way I think you will be able to convice this person that this isn't a money making scheme.

I am hurt and angry to be characterized this way, and I will refrain from further dicussion with this person.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I didn't say you did.
I offered the apology, publicly, because I recognized that I had done you an injustice.

You now insult me by insinuating that I would go along with Bev's paranoia for money.

We have nothing further to say to each other then.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. I disagree.
Edited on Mon Jul-24-06 10:03 AM by dicksteele
I really don't think she's "crazy";
at least not in the way you mean.

Bev is an amoral sociopath with no regard for the truth;
lies and slander are just another tool for Bev to use
so that Bev gets what Bev wants.

"Believing what she says" is a concept without meaning in Bev's head;
she says whatever she believes will be useful to her goals
at any given moment.

And so far, it's been working GREAT, from Bev's point of view.

She doesn't believe a word of what you posted, she just felt it
would be useful to say it.

She's not "crazy", she's just EVIL.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. The Quixote Group is descended from the Accountants of Malta
:evilgrin:

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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. I thought they were part of
the Actuaries of Zurich?
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. She is completely marginalized now. She has no credibility left.
I'm sorry I ever sent her money in 2004--which was supposed to get me a book I never got, btw. She wanted to be the only face on the election fraud movement. Her delusions of grandeur, as well as her persecution complex, did her in. Along with the grand assertions of proof she refused to produce. Sad case.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Well, I have a couple left on the bookshelf
If you will PM me your address, I can send you a copy.

Who knows, it may be a collector's item one day.
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. LOL! Thanks, Kelvin. That's a nice offer, truly, but I am very over her.
Actually, I had read a lot of it online anyway, waiting for it to come.

But I hope it does become collectible someday, and that you make a tidy sum. :)
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Ah, but which version did you read
the first one, or her "updated" one.

Comparing the two can be very amusing.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. the book ships on Wednesday
we mean it this time. :-)
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. This woman is nuts.
Yep. Some of us knew that some time ago.

But it's nice to see you spreading the truth a bit more.

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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
14. So, where are all those self righteous CPS screamers?
Shouldn't they be raising hell about Bev Harris instead of trying to crucify one of their own?????

Who wudda thunk?
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Cookie wookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
20. ROFLMAO
Tears streaming down cheeks

:rofl:
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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 06:16 AM
Response to Original message
21. the cycle repeats itself
oh wait a minute- this isn't repeating itself exactly.



I was gonna say that there she goes smearing ACCURATE again,
but Quixote is a ultra secret group, so secret that no one knows
the "secret handshake".

How dare these guys email each other without cc'ing the world?

I am sure that Bev will get that on film and it will be part of
the next movie.
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. ROFL, for sure part of the ONGOING movie
After all, the haven't released anything but a trailer.
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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
23. its simple - why does the IRS say they didn't get BBV' s tax return
that is the real question.

why did the IRS say they never got Bev's BBV Tax Return?

This other weird paranoia stuff is ridiculous.
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. You should contact Mr. Harasaki
at Champaign Urbana. I bet he'd have quite a few tales to tell you about Ms. Harris and the IRS.

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flyingobject Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-28-06 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
25. scary
:scared:

some crazy stuff.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-29-06 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
26. Maybe she's just nuts.
Why all the craziness about the taxes & filings with NO ZERO NADA answers?

Maybe she thinks she's above the law? Is she delusional to that point? She goes on wild accusatory rants, but apparently cannot conduct simple, ordinary necessities of everyday business.

WHY didn't she have the 990 reporting done by a CPA?

WHY did she not file it?

WHY did she not pay payroll taxes for over a year?

Why accumulate penalties and interest to be paid out of donations?

Why did she say she'd post documentation of the Qui Tam 'donation', but never has?

Why didn't she register to legally solicit funds for two years?

I am just utterly stumped. Is she TRYING to discredit the movement???

She surely isn't ignorant or stupid or lacking in financing. A million dollars in donations would enable the org to obtain professional advice regarding legal compliance and proper accounting.

What is wrong with Bev? Once again hurling bizarre paranoid accusations, while being utterly incapable or unwilling to keep to ordinary conventions as established by our society and law.

Yeah, maybe you got it, judging by her own actions and words, "This woman is nuts."
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-30-06 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
27. Actually, IMO.. she is being SWIFTBOATED TO HELL...
And a few of you right here know that very well. Don't you.

Unfortunately for the others, you're effective in whatever methods to rake her through the coals you've chosen today.

Sad. Embarrassing and SAD.

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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-30-06 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. I know.
Bev's own words are pretty embarrassing and sad. But what are ya gonna do? They ARE her OWN words.

Have you asked her why she didn't file her IRS filing for months after claiming she did? Does it make you WONDER?

This is NOT "swiftboating". These are her own words and her own actions.

"These are FACTS. Get over it!"
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-30-06 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. That would be one interpretation,
the other would be that one who continually burns bridges eventually has, well, ashes left in the wake rather than bridges across rivers to find paths to common goals. From what I have seen, sometimes Bev doesn't just burn bridges, she then stokes the smoldering ashes in an attempt to burn what is already dessimated. Many who acted in goodfaith on her efforts and her behalf, have either been singed, burned, or watched as others were pushed into the fire. The idea that those who are not only disenchanted with bev all must be part of a swiftboating conspiracy is laughable. Locally there were efforts to try to get local election officials to take seriously the concerns about electronic voting machines - were set back egregiously by those who pulled in Bev's work and words. Fair minded, but not fully briefed on the issues, folks were aghast at the far flung accusations/assertions mixed in with the concerns that they, citing the work of BH, backed away from continued discussions and decided to dismiss the issue and those folks locally raising the issue - as crackpots.

A long-time duer early on raised the concern to me, one who does not participate in these discussions - and one who I have never read as having "bashed bev" - as to whether or not bev could be partially funded in order 'lead' and then discredit a movement to push the issue of the danger of electronic (unverifable) voting. I stated then, as I would now, that I do not think so. I actually think that she acts, in her own mind, in "good faith." However her actions are rather like a bull in a china shop, and the end result (discrediting a movement, and those within it) can be the same whether or not the intention was to discredit the movement.

So if you chose to call me a swiftboater, so be it. However, I will not claim to know the intentions of your words and actions supporting Bev. I think you have an absolute right to your support/belief. I just wish that you were not so quick to decide that you know what is in my heart or head when asserting that critics have a certain intent when voicing their concerns.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-30-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. It isn't "switf boating" when it is true
only when it is a lie. You know, like how Bev lies about other activists.

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