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Another screw-up in Indiana! Kerry losing thousands of votes to Bednarik.

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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 12:17 AM
Original message
Another screw-up in Indiana! Kerry losing thousands of votes to Bednarik.
And guess who's equipment is responsible?

__________
Glitch causes Franklin Co. recount

November 11, 2004

BROOKVILLE, Ind. - Election equipment counted straight-party votes for Democratic candidates as Libertarian votes, an error that could affect election outcomes in as many as nine counties, the Richmond Palladium-Item reported today.

Democrats discovered the error in Franklin County, where ballots will be counted again tonight.

The county's election equipment vendor, Fidlar, notified officials Wednesday of the error.

Libertarian candidates received 7 to 8 percent of the votes in Franklin County, which is about 30 miles south of Richmond.


http://www.indystar.com/articles/3/193880-4433-093.html
__________

The article talks about Fidlar Election Company and its' optical scanning machines. The Indiana Secretary of State lists the Voting System in Franklin as the Fidlar AccuVote http://www.in.gov/sos/elections/voters/vot_sys.html .

But Fidlar doesn't manufacture voting equipment, they only install and manage it. http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1038562&l=...

The equipment used is made by our good friends at Diebold. Franklin and the other eight counties use the Diebold Accuvote-TS running GEMS (which Bev has warned us about.) http://www.in.gov/sos/elections/voters/certifiedsystems...

So here's another Diebold "glitch" (I hate that word!) that's costing Kerry votes. How come these innocent glitches never, ever cost bush votes?

Remember, these people we're up against may be devious, but they are also incompetent. They screw up everything they do. It's up to us to catch them.
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imaginary girl Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. Has there been much analysis of Indiana's votes?
We had an ugly governatorial race here with Bush's buddy Mitch Daniels the victor. That might have given extra incentive for devious attention here.
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Nothing big that I know of, but there should be. There have been
numerous problems in Indiana. Vanderbergh County will be auditing their results. ES&S, the largest voting machine manufacturer with strong republican ties, has their machines in that county.

A local news station, WISH-TV, did an excellent two-part story in March about Indiana's problems with electronic voting.

See my thread yesterday discussing ES&S and Indiana.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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dogmastomper Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
29. An interesting aside...
is that Vanderbergh County shifted heavily democratic in the mayoral election and local elections last year...
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lilfroggy Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
2. isn't badnarik supposed to help take
Isn't Badnarik supposed to help take votes away from Bush, tho?
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TexasChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. True, but he's not suppose to help take away votes from Kerry either. n/t
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. How many "glitches" does it take
before we can conclude these machines suck ass?? Even if there is no fraud discovered, Diebold is a worthless company.. Their products don't fucking work! Any other company would have been bankrupt long ago.
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. How hard can it be for a computer to count votes? Computers do things
a thousand times harder than vote counting.

And what are the odds that all of the numerous "glitches" always--ALWAYS!--goes against the Dem candidate?
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. ahh, but they are working 'correctly' my dear.
that's the rub.

it was planned and now it's starting to look obvious to anyone with any sensible skeptic bone in their body. unless you are major media outlets in the USA, of course.
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Darvocet Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
36. Apparently it can be very hard!
Which is why I've never trusted these new-fangled electric computer- thingies. Actually, milkyway makes a very good point that I've not heard mentioned until now. Even computers from the 1950's would have no trouble with the type of math involved in adding up votes. Anyone who has studied computer science has probably written a similar program very early into his or her education. One of the first or second assignments given at the Univ. I attended was a vote counting simulation program of all things. It certainly does not put much of a strain on a computer's memory resources. Basically involves adding 1 to a number, storing the new number and again adding 1 to the number. Obviously the programs actually in use for the election were a bit more involved than that, but nothing terribly difficult for anyone in that field. The types of "glitches" I have been hearing about, if true, seems a little odd. These types of bugs ("glitches") would be very unlikely to pass through even very remedial testing. Also, while bugs are quite common before a program is finished, these particular ones don't strike me as the type most software designers would be most likely make even before debugging (not to be confused with buggery, which is a completely different sort of program I understand).
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ltfranklin Donating Member (852 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Not very hard at all!
>Anyone who has studied computer science has probably
written a
>similar program very early into his or her education.

Certainly did...what CS student didn't play around with the
idea of a "golden percentage point" program, where
you grab the "hidden" percentage of each interest
calculation and hide them in your own little account.  It's
where you learn that it's much safer to steal a little bit
here and there than a big chunk in one shot.


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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. Only one.
The one that give a democrate more votes than a repuke.
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restorefreedom Donating Member (424 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
32. that's about the size of it, tridim
It's amazing - incompetent or fraudulent.

Either way they get away with it.

So much for cutthroat capitalism when you have friends in high places.
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ewulf Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. There goes the popular vote...
Slowly, slowly, we watch bush's popular vote margin dwindle as "Red State" fraud is uncovered... At this rate, Kerry will have a real mandate in a few years.
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nodictators Donating Member (977 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yeah, in 2009 he will be shown to have "won" the 2004 election
Edited on Fri Nov-12-04 11:31 AM by nodictators
"Dems for Never" , those found to have been elected after their term ENDS.
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Sparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
9. Bush: The Computer Glitch King!
:mad:
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. It's glitch after glitch after glitch
What a coincidence!
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. changing the results in at least one race
A recount prompted by a computer glitch in Franklin County's voting machines has given a Democrat enough votes to bump a Republican from victory in a county commissioner's race.


http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2557466&nav=0R...
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shelley806 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. Someone at DU last night posted the data...I'll see if I can find the
thread!
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shelley806 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. Please see link below: It lists Indiana peculiarities:
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LisaLynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thank you, Shelley806!
I'm here in Indiana and I'm starting to feel a little ... er ... weird about our election results. As people know, we had a hotly contested Gov race, which ended up going to the Republican ... OR DID IT? I'm starting to wonder. Indiana is a Red state, presidentally, but we have one Dem Senator and a Dem Govenor for a long time and I'm just starting to wonder if maybe ... something's going on.
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shelley806 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. And a very popular one at that...Same thing happened in NC...
Edited on Fri Nov-12-04 01:47 PM by shelley806
but the absentee ballots were about a third of the total vote cast, and are relatively 'uncontaminated.' ie. They match the true exit poll data. Do you know if Indiana has absentee voting, and if so, have they been accounted for? This might be the tip of the iceberg. If there are enough states with huge discrepancies in the absentee counts compared to final votes...Get the drift?

NC Link: "Unofficial edit of NC Election; comprehensive case for fraud"


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

edited for bad link correction

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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. It may not be the fault of state or local officials. From what I've read,
a number of them have gotten really upset with ES&S voting machine reps. If there has been anything done maliciously, it may very well have been done without these local officials' knowledge.
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shelley806 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I've bought that one all along; the centralized cheating capabilites
with Rove at his computer, sudden late trips to Ohio and Hawaii...I'll get the link about the NC absentee study. The title is "Unofficial Edit of NC Election: Comprehensive Case for Fraud" by ignatzmouse
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shelley806 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. Does anyone know about the absentee ballot status in IN? eom
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VTHoosierPatriot Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. It's not that significant.
I voted absentee because I'm recovering in a blue state for the next three years, but the majority of IN would not use the postal system to vote because it is a socialist system.
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. LOL!
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Have you ever noticed the farther south you go in Indiana &
especially down in Dan Burton's district you'll see very few teeth in peoples mouths and more protruding foreheads than anywhere else in the country?
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Metatron Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. Dan Burton's district is not in southern Indiana
He's in district five (central Indiana) - comprised of many rich Republicans.
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LisaLynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. I don't know ...
but I'm going to try to find out. I'll post if I can find anything.
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TangledThorns Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
24. Better Choice
Heh, I'd like to see more votes for the Libertarians over the Dems any day. They're real liberals as opposed to the anti-american socialist assholes that give liberals a bad name.
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Huh?
welcome to DU-I think.
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AnIndependentTexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
25. Halley!!!!!!!!! It's a miracle and we all can PRAISE JESUS for it
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BQueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
27. Repubs took control of state govt in IN, too
Edited on Fri Nov-12-04 08:58 PM by BQueen
can't find the link right now, but was reading the online Ft. Wayne News Sentinel an article about the dems losing Gov and lost control of statehouse. Party rep sounded pretty demoralized.

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/10099017.htm
Same "we got us a mandate!" tude...

edit -- *now* I find the link....added and edited post to reflect story contents.
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Calvinist Basset Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
28. "Glitches"
I hate that word, too. And you have a point. These so-called glitches consistently favor Bush--and why that doesn't cause more suspicion among the public is beyond me.

Someone I know mentioned in passing that the Republicans use "evidence of inconsistencies" in Kerry's favor that balance out our claims. But I can't find any material like that anywhere. Does anyone know where I can find such? If that exists, I want the chance to debunk the theory in light of the *gross anomalies* favoring Bush.
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Lil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
33. Do anyone know if this is the final word on that recount?
Edited on Fri Nov-12-04 10:33 PM by Lil
http://www.indystar.com/articles/1/194039-4421-009.html

Vote machine error brings recount in Franklin County

By John Strauss
john.strauss@indystar.com
November 12, 2004

A programming error discovered in voting machines has triggered a recount of the Nov. 2 election results in Franklin County in southeastern Indiana.

A Democratic official, whose party was shortchanged in the mistake, said the only change in the results might come in a County Council race. State officials are investigating.

"The Indiana Election Division is aware of the problem," said Kate Shepherd, spokeswoman for the agency. "We are awaiting more information from the county and the vendor about what exactly happened."

The error caused votes for a straight Democratic ticket in Franklin County -- selecting all Democratic candidates -- to credit Libertarian candidates instead.

The mistake was in the programming of optical-scan voting machines sold by Fidlar Election Co., Rock Island, Ill. John Kruszynski, the company's director of elections, said only Franklin County was affected.

"It was just one configuration setting," he said.

Kruszynski did not know how many votes were miscounted.

The company's optical-scan machines are also used in Benton, Elkhart, Fulton, LaGrange, Newton, Ripley, Scott, Steuben and Switzerland counties, according to the Indiana Election Division. Kruszynski said there were no programming mistakes with the company's machines elsewhere in Indiana, or in the half-dozen other states where Fidlar has contracts.

Jim Sauerland, the Democratic chairman in Franklin County, about 30 miles northwest of Cincinnati, discovered the mistake Monday while checking election results. Sauerland said he hadn't checked earlier because he was depressed by the party's poor showing in the elections.

He said the only race that could be affected is for an at-large seat on the County Council.

Franklin County has previously used punch cards, and this was the first election in which optical-scan equipment was used, Sauerland said.

"I really hate to see this problem crop up because people were so nervous about changing anyway," he said.

Marion County used optical-scan equipment sold by another company. In most of those systems, voters mark a paper ballot that is then scanned by a computer, which tabulates the votes. Doris Anne Sadler, the Marion County clerk, has said she favors optical-scan equipment because if there is a question about the computer tabulation, the paper ballots themselves can be recounted.

Ripley, Scott and Switzerland counties are in the 9th Congressional District, which had the state's closest congressional race this year. Democratic Rep. Baron Hill lost to Republican challenger Mike Sodrel by just 1,430 votes.

But the programming error, even if it had been made in the three counties, would not have been enough to deny Sodrel the election, because the Libertarian count totaled just 309 votes in those counties.

Franklin County is in the 6th Congressional District, where Republican Mike Pence won re-election over Democratic challenger Mel Fox by more than 98,000 votes.

Franklin County had only 740 Libertarian votes, so that if Fox got them all in a recount, she would still be far short of winning.

Call Star reporter John Strauss at (317) 444-6208.

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HEAVYHEART Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. I don't know. But I'm kicking this.
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. How does he know? "Kruszynski said there were no programming mistakes
with the company's machines elsewhere in Indiana, or in the half-dozen other states where Fidlar has contracts."

He didn't know there was this one enormous mistake until an Indiana Dem discovered it six days--six days!--after the election. So how does he Kruszynski, or anyone else, know whether or not there were any other, ahem, mistakes that might have more subtly shifted votes? They didn't even see this one, for crying out loud.
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shuffnew Donating Member (306 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Mistakes or Hacks or Both? The latter of course.
Their job is not to SEE THEM!
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