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Lehto: Vendors Commonly Refuse to Promise That Their Voting Machines Work

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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 10:41 PM
Original message
Lehto: Vendors Commonly Refuse to Promise That Their Voting Machines Work
Edited on Mon Jun-12-06 10:46 PM by Wilms

E-voting Vendors Commonly Refuse to Promise That Their Voting Machines Work

(By contractually disclaiming implied warranties that are supposed to apply to all sales of goods under the Uniform Commercial Code)

By Paul R. Lehto, Attorney at Law (Washington State)
lehtolawyer@gmail.com

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: By their own admission in the words of their signed contracts with government agencies, voting machine vendors disclaim or refuse to stand behind their products. The voting machine vendors also refuse to promise that their products will work or that they will be fit even for ordinary uses or for any particular purpose that the vendor knows very well or has reason to know is the purpose for buying the machines. Because these disclaimers of implied warranties routinely appear in contracts to purchase voting machines, activists and government officials should not allow or approve such low standards to be brought into our election processes. This point is of sufficient strength and importance in making points concerning both the importance of elections as well as the low quality of voting machines that citizens may consider holding an intellectual sit-in so to speak and simply keep asking the question in different forms over and over again: How could the government agree to run our elections without obtaining a promise or warranty that the machines will work? How could the vendors think they should be allowed to present these kinds of risks to democracy if theyre not willing to stand behind their products 100%? Does this constitute recklessness? Corporate favors? Whats going on here?

Also discussed is the status when the implied warranties are disclaimed as above, but a short term limited warranty is provided in place of the implied warranties, which is still a woefully insufficient state of affairs for elections, which are supposed to be highly reliable fail safe events involving ballot collection and simple acts of addition. The FTC explains the implied warranty of merchantability (which vendors deny they are making when selling voting machines to our governmental officials, as follows:

{The implied warranty of merchantability means that the goods} will do what they are supposed to do and that there is nothing significantly wrong with them. In other words, it is an implied promise that the goods are fit to be sold. The law says that merchants make this promise automatically every time they sell a product they are in business to sell.
See http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.ht... (click understanding warranties link, paragraph 4 in the understanding warranties section)
Voting machine vendors are most definitely merchants under the law. The following more extended discussion explains this in more detail, and suggests how citizens can use this law to frame questions and objections to voting machine sales.

snip

.pdf http://electionfraudnews.com/LegDoc/E-Voting_Vendors_Re...


Source:

ELECTION FRAUD NEWS

http://electionfraudnews.com/LegDoc/legal.htm

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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kick-n-Recommended.......nt
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. This stuff ain't all that bad, thanks for posting! ; )
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. That fish makes a lot of sharp points!

:hi:

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GuvWurld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm finally getting to read this now
K&R and IOU comment
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GuvWurld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. You should lobby the American Bar Association
First of all, intellectual sit-in is genius.

In all seriousness, Paul, what would happen if you put together a dossier of briefs for each of the inventive legal cases you have envisioned regarding elections? Could you take such a collection of arguments to the Bar, or some other group whom I may not know, and cause them to act on the basis of some professional obligation to protect (restore) democracy and/or defend the rule of law and/or some other credo? I mean, all these arguments you bring up seem like such compelling grounds for lawsuits. Aren't there some people who simply can't say no to taking them up?
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-17-06 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. Would be a good idea, but time is the only barrier
thanks for asking. I'll keep it in mind perhaps building up a file as I go along.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. federal standards say they don't have to
remember, federal standards allow for machine failure about 10%
of the time.

So, voting machine companies don't have to get better than a 90.

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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. That's right. And further...

The standard states that the standard doesn't have to be met.

http://www.votetrustusa.org/index.php?option=com_conten...

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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. while it is true that "regulations" can often be legalizing conduct
that would otherwise be illegal (a 3ppm mercury "limit" effecitvely makes less than 3 ppm legal) i doubt that "voluntary standards would do that or have that general kind of effect. If it doesn't proscribe, it can't by implication legalize...

(for lay readers: without such a regulation, an expert might otherwise testify that 2 ppm caused unacceptable amounts of problems...)

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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
7. This is how you run a business in Crazy Town.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
8. I love this. simple and great.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. K & R nt
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. They would be crazy to promise that!
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 02:51 PM by Bill Bored
I've seen fake orgasms with more sincerity than these voting system standards!: http://www.eac.gov/election_resources/vss.html

And the vendors never promise anything beyond what's in the standards, do they?

Counselor Lehto should send this to RFK Jr. Esq. and Mike Papantonio Esq.

They say they want to sue these companies, and there's no substitute for experience, is there?
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. please feel free to help (anyone) I'm on my way to investigate e-fraud
in an undisclosed location...
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Tell us more. nt
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. What part of undisclosed don't you get.
Pushy NewYawkers. :spank:

:D

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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Dude, only the location was undisclosed.
The facts of the case are what I'm after.

Ya got a problem with dat?
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Meet me at the deli.

We'll dicuss it over a scrambled egg sandwich.

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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. There will be more disclosed "in due time"; it will be worth the wait
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. E-Voting System Disclaimer:
This product is not intended to treat, diagnose, cure or prevent any fraudulent election.

Always seek the advice of your local sales representative with any questions you may have regarding a vote count discrepancy, incorrect ballot displayed on the screen, or machine failure, and before undertaking any independent test, audit, investigation or exercise of any voting rights guaranteed under federal or state law.

The manufacturer does not warrant that the operation of the product will be uninterrupted or error-free and is not responsible for any damage to the democratic process arising from failure to follow instructions relating to the product's use, or compliance with such instructions.

Design, performance, specifications and electoral outcomes subject to change with notice.
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Einsteinia Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. Great work again from Paul L.
And why would vendors promise anything they aren't forced to promise.

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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
17. how about sending this to Lou Dobbs
he will blow a cork.

Add in Howard's write up on the 10 % failure rate and Dobbs
will turn red!
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
19. but they always say this -
they are "state of the art".

You can tell if someone is an idiot if they say
these touchscreen machines are better than optical scan because
they are "state of the art".

I have some tar to sell you for your driveway too!
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
22. .
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