I think VVPAT is a really bad idea.

[Wilms]

I think VVPAT is a really bad idea.

Not that I arrive at that easily, (or free of fear of premature salvos from a flame-thrower.) I mean, what's not to like. It's made of paper. :shrug:


But the printer$ are an expen$e the voter'$ mu$t bear. That expen$e can manife$t a$ fewer polling place$, let alone higher debt/taxe$.

The printers are THE device that holds many DRE's from meeting the lame VVSG standard for Reliability.
http://www.votetrustusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1054&Itemid=26 Printer jams = increased potential for long lines. :grr:

VVPAT adds new security vulnerability that have to be managed.

Also, "survey says" voters generally don't look them over, and another "survey says" that when they do they often get it wrong (and I sure hope someone will provide links to those surveys :blush: ).

Worse, they offer a false sense of security, like that held by some people advocating voting absentee. :eyes:


But you can't have an election without paper given the Statute of Frauds.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x431344 (And "Common Sense"--we should use the term. Repubs like that one. ;) )

And you can't, therefore, have a DRE without VVPAT.


So this is a real problem unless we ban the DRE altogether. :D

Surely those with disabilities that require assistant (and keep in mind, that's hardly many with disabilities) can use a ballot marker.

[oscar111]

1. Canada, France use paper ballots hand counted

IIRC, italy too.

The simpler the better.

Complexity creates crannies where tricks can hide.

Ask any magician.

No crannies, few tricks. Canada has the best idea.

PS good to see you again, Wilms.

[OnTheOtherHand]

2. yeah. I see what you mean

Sorry, I'm too tired to dig out those studies -- Caltech/MIT stuff, right? I don't think that's the killer; as long as some people verify, and some screech if their votes flipped (and, doh, as long as the VVPATs are audited), that should discourage sweeping fraud. (Not to sound sanguine, just to say that's not the KILLER.)

I do worry about the printers, and the chain of custody. I worry about the cost, although maybe it just pushes that many more jurisdictions to go for other methods.

I think DREs have some inherent benefits (especially in preventing or discouraging accidental residual votes), but the Just Trust Us thing is, like, so not working for me. As it were. But I would not frame VVPATs as the problem, although I see your points.

[Wilms]

3. You said it! Not me.

"...although maybe it just pushes that many more jurisdictions to go for other methods."

:D