OK I'm pissed. Maybe we should fight fire with fire.

[pauldp]

We create a real voting machine company called "Pinko Technologies"

We release statements claiming how we are committed to getting Communist and Green Party candidates elected throughout the country.

Our proprietary vote counting software called "Trust Us" will have secret source code
and our machine, "The Lenin 3000", will have no paper trail.

We get some ballsy board of elections people or maybe even a liberal Secretary of State to actually propose signing a contract with this company. Go on local talk shows and promote it.

Anyone up for this? It's only fair right?

[Eric J in MN]

1. Michael Moore should be the CEO (nt)

nt

[loveable liberal]

2. Taking the high road is never easy.

Its not a bad idea, but people that argue that 'to win a war you have to become your enemy' only do so because they cant think of an alternative solution. If we cant win by thinking, arguing and convincing, then we dont deserve democracy.

[nofurylike]

5. and investigating and prosecuting, too, you mean, of course. cuz they

gon steal, again.
while we be all decent.


peace!

[pauldp]

6. I'm saying we play by the book. Not cheat. n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

25. OK--We play by the book. Here's the scene:

1) Puggies get to write the rules. The rules are not symmetrical--i.e. different rules depending on who you are.

2) It is against the rules for a Dem to win.

3) Any Dem protest of the rules or their application is whining, and will be penalized.

[Land Shark]

38. good point , also the rules will not be fully disclosed either, n/t

[Eric J in MN]

14. Republicans control everything, and so we can't get

federal legislation for trustworthy elections passed unless there is first distrust on both sides.

I once wrote Ben Cohen's people (formerly of Ben & Jerry's) urging him to buy a voting machine company.

A famous liberal owning a voting machine company would create that distrust from the Republican side.

[pauldp]

15. You nailed it.

there has to be distrust on both sides. I agree it's the only way will ever get anywhere.
Otherwise it's always "sour grapes".

[Canuckistanian]

3. And they're all blue.

And Michael Moore will be on every ballot screen.

[pauldp]

7. exactly.

:D

[drm604]

12. And if you touch a Repub candidate

the screen will show Michael Moore selected instead!

[lvx35]

4. Kind of brilliant.

All it takes is one town, one court case that could create legislation that would block not only our machines but the corrupt machines. I say hell yes.
I'll write the software:

function countAVote(vote)
    if (isRepublican(vote))
        vote = functionOnMysteriousExternalCard(vote)
    upDateVoteCount(vote)

[pauldp]

8. Right On. We just need a prototype.

I'm sure we could get someone to put the hardware together. I'm actually quite serious about this.
:7

[Wilms]

10. We'll need a felon to program it, though. n/t

[pauldp]

11. Great Idea.

Someone who did serious time for wire fraud or embezzling or something.

[Amaryllis]

44. why not get Jeff Dean? Does he only work for republicans? He did SUCH

a good job on Diebold's software!

[lvx35]

13. Here's how one would do it.

As a computer science guy, I can definatly give some input.

The thing is that you have *intent* as a ruling factor in court cases regarding software...what you INTENDED to do with the software gets you busted verses what it actually does. Napster only got shut down because company emails talked about illegal fire sharing showed "intent". And of COURSE, Diebold "intends" (haha) to get right results, they are just incompetant which "lets" their boxes be rigged. So if a company were to do what you are talking about, they would have to be incompentant rather than knowing what they were doing for a lawsuit against them to have reaching impact.
Anyway, here's one way an incompetant company would write software that would allow an election to get rigged...hopefully not too technical.

There would be some kind of touch screen thin client which takes votes, and a central machine at the building which tallies them all. votes would make remote calls through SOAP or XML-RPC over a highly encrypted wireless or wired connection that could be shown to be rock solid, very secure...because its where suspicious people would look.

In the incompetant company I envision, the magic would happen at the central machine through a series of security checks. Each vote, once recieved at the central machine, would first go through a security process to "make sure" that no malicious code which might cause a buffer overflow or whatever, standard stuff for network apps. The security process would take a given vote, represented by..say..text in, and return it with any hint of threatening stuff removed to be counted. This code would be legitamate and built in. HOWEVER, since those "hackers" are always coming up with new things that could get around those checks, the core code would have a second stage which would run "checking code" off some removable hardware device, such as a USB thumb. The pretense would then be that at the last minute, the company might become aware of a new hacker threat and plug in the removable device to protect from the attack rather than have to upgrade their software, which could stall an election.

The rigging software would be on the removable device, and it could be plugged in by company emloyees, or "hackers" who "have the system beat". Since all the security checks take the vote in and return it changed (threats removed) it would be easy to make software that would
return the vote itself changed to another candidate, and any audit of the code for the main system would show nothing. Furthermore, timers could be built into the system so after the election, the software on the removal device erases itself and rewrites normal code to the removable disk, making the whole thing auditable, after people have stopped voting (you couldn't audit while) even if the removable device is left behind.

So see? Sitting here I came up with the master plan that half these guys did. Its easy and stupid.

So now all you have to do is find/make an "incompetant" company, have everybody in a town vote for Ralph Nader/Leet Haxor, and when the lawsuits come, you can win by pointing out that your software is no less secure than any major voting machine company, a very strong arguments when the facts get on the table!!! :)

[pauldp]

18. Wow that's genius. It's all in the magic card.

Good illustration of how simply it can be done. Has anything like that been done by existing voting machine companies?

I wasn't thinking of actually trying to rig an election. I was thinking more along the lines of a legit machine made by a company with extreme left wing ties in order to get media attention and prove a point. However your approach might ultimately lead to some good legislation if someone were willing to take the risk. Unfortunately you just revealed the secret on a public message board. But you were just kidding right?;)

[lvx35]

19. hehe

You asked if some companies have these removable components which can run code. My understanding is yes, that is one of the issue with Diebold machines, but you might want to talk to some of the resident experts for some more details.

Kidding? yeah basically. Shit stirring. My hope is that some freepers would see it and start some healthy supician about voting machines on their own, then maybe take a look at Diebold et al.

But outside of that, I think there is a lot of fruitful impact your idea could have as far as making people think. That much I am serious about.

[kster]

9. Hey now

our government just found their balls two, three weeks ago Kerry Murtha and the rest if they keep this up we will be going places.

[emanymton]

16. Election Boxes Already Report GOP Sweep In 2006. Go For It.

[yourout]

17. Form a nonprofit voting machine company and give the machines away.

Funded by donations. Beat them at there own game. Do it cheaper and better and the people will buy them.

[GuvWurld]

20. This is a good idea and could be a lot simpler than above

You could take an ordinary toaster/microwave/stereo (anything, take your pick) from K-Mart or wherever and call it your election machine. Then do all the media/promo stuff mentioned above and just insist that nobody can see the proprietary "code" that makes it work. It is the absurdity of the demonstration that packs the punch from this whole idea. Both sides should be skeptical, yes, and conclude there is no basis for confidence in the results reported. If by comparison and humorous exaggeration we can make a point about current machines, I don't think we need to do any actual programming. Think theater.

[autorank]

22. Reminds me of an Enquirer Headline: Satan Haunts Toaster--GREAT POST GUV!

:rofl:

This shows the absurdity of this all...I do appreciate you picking K-Mart rather than Wal-Mart. Very PC.

This would givei an all new meaning to "You're toast."

[pauldp]

27. Yes theater.

The reason I thought an actual voting machine would help launch the
campaign is that if some little progressive jurisdiction somewhere actually promoted the machine, think what a news story that would make.

Plus with an actual machine you could do absurd things in your demo
like try to vote for a republican candiddate but have Ralph Nader's name keep coming up and say "oh don't worry you just keep pressing the button untill it comes up correctly - trust us, really"

[EFerrari]

31. Craig Newmark!

LOL! Craig is all over voting issues.

I want to do the t-shirts: "Trust Us" / When You Have No Choice At All!

[EFerrari]

33. I like the idea of "cooking" the vote.

:)

[Amaryllis]

46. have you seen these Diebold posters? the fourth one is "we cook the

vote so you don't have to"
http://homepage.mac.com/rcareaga/diebold/adworks.htm

[EFerrari]

51. I'd forgotten there. LOL! Better save them, this time. n/t

[Amaryllis]

45. Damn, Gov! that is a stroke of genius! Brilliant...

[emlev]

53. I love it! Here's another possible twist

Though I don't know if it would work with a toaster ("Fair elections in the U.S. are Toast!)

We promote machines that we claim will serve both the repugs' demand for elections thrown to them and the reformer's demands for transparent elections. How? Our machines will let you watch them throw the elections. Since nobody does anything when an election is stolen anyway, why does it need to be a secret any longer?

[autorank]

21. (((LOL))) Sign me up. We could make TIA, CIO and me CLE, Chief of

Lavish Entertainment for political hacks and election officials--

The system is broken...there is no hope for AT ALL for voting machines, NONE.

We need to go to paper. They do that in Britain and they do it after having machines and deciding to throw them all out.

People vote on paper ballots, the are closely monitored and all can watch, then the count is done by volunteers, observed in an open space, and everyone is happy. Who are the volunteers? BANK TELLERS...perfect.

Machines will never work! We don't have time to fix the situation. We must demand paper for 2006 or we'll be seriously hurt. I'm a Democrat since birth (congenital) and it sickens me to see us set up to get screwed. Look what Blackwell did in Ohio--Issues 2 & 3 lead by 30 and 42% nine days before the election then lose by 25% or so each...IMPOSSIBLE, Bull Shit, polls done by best political polling group at a newspaper just about anywhere. 44 counties had Diebolds installed before that election on 11/08. There is NO hope for machines. We need a symbolic Boston Tea Party for the machines.

I do like your company name...

[pauldp]

30. Yes! We need officers and a board of directors!

Someone should be minister of propaganda of course.
"Vote Snatcher 2000" might be a better name for the machine or "Blue Vote" or something. Whatever the name it should be a public awareness campaign possibly supporting HR 550 or even calling for paper ballots exclusively.

I really think having an actual machine with which we can do demonstations to show the absurdity of the situation we are in would help drive the point home.

I am quite serious about this.


:D

[EFerrari]

32. We have a machine. We get a Diebold machine

and *nearly* remove the identifying brand labels. You needn't even break a sweat on this one!

:)

[pauldp]

34. Perfect. Of course anyone questioning Pinko Technologies,

an upstanding American Corporation is clearly trying to undermine our democracy and is nothing more than a wild eyed conspiracy theorist.

[EFerrari]

35. We need to cast some conspiracy theorists -- with those

bulging plastic eyes that are springloaded on eyeglass frames.

lol

[autorank]

43. pauldp, how about just "Snatcher Millinium Edition --

Board of Directors:

Pablo Escobar (Finance Committee Chair)
Manuel Noriega
Gnewt Gingreich
Jimmy Swaggert
Tammie Faye Baker (Audit Committee Chair)
Jeffrey Dahmer
Charles Manson
O.J. Simpson

I'm open for further nominees.

I do like GuvWurld's suggestion of using a toaster. Here's one with total "transparency."

[pauldp]

48. lol!

:rofl:

[Time for change]

23. Excellent idea

Unfortunately, the problem would be trying to get anyone to cover it.

[Poet Lariat]

24. Just a thought here...others have touched on it

This could be done in the form of a "high profile publicity stunt"...

14 well known Hollywood celebrities form new company called "Trust Us". This consortium has purchased a voting machine manufacturer and intends to market these new voting machines to counties around the country prior to the 2006 elections. They have stated in their company profile that these new machines will have a secret source code that only their company has access to. In addition, during elections, they will have the ability to monitor and change any votes that they feel were cast incorrectly...

[GuvWurld]

26. Yes. This is exactly what I imagined.

The more outlandish the better. Maybe Brad could front this project through Velvet Revolution?

[pauldp]

28. Yes lets ask Brad.

I'm sure we could start by getting coverage on AAR.

[Poet Lariat]

29. Just trust us...I can see the press conference now.

Q. Ms. Streisand, you mentioned secret source code software that has been developed for these new machines. What makes you think anyone would trust such a system?

A. Well Dick, as I’ve been told many times in my career by men like you who are less intelligent than me...“Just don’t you worry your pretty little head about that”. We’ve got that all taken care of.

Q. Yes but don’t you think that this would open the door to potential fraud and completely undermine the validity of our election process?

A. Dick, that’s the beauty of these new machines. We’ve pulled out all the stops to find the best and brightest software developers to design this new system. They have paid their dues to society now and we feel, deserve a second chance to help their country. Besides, the foundation of our new company is based on the concept of trust. If you can’t learn to trust people then what kind of world will this be?

[EFerrari]

36. Cue "The Way We Were" lol n/t

[BradBlog]

37. TrustUS (tm)

That stands for Trust United States, of course!

[pauldp]

42. Excellent! Of course it would be unpatriotic not to Trust US.

So what do you think Brad? If we ran some branding spots, even if it was just on Cable. We would not be endorsing a party or a candidate, just a brand of machine, so it would not appear politically controversial but we get celebs like Barbara S. or George Clooney or Michael Moore to do glowing endorsements for the TrustUS (tm) software.

CUT TO ON SCREEN HOST:
"We use all the same security features that other companies like Diebold and ES&S do, but we make doubly sure your votes count the way you want them to! Call your local Secretaries of State and your Representatives and tell them to consider the TrustUS solution for your next election"

Repugs would have their phones ringing off the hook with people questioning electronic voting.
"I sure as hell don't want that Amurika hatin' librul countin' mah vote. Why we gotta use these machines anyways?"

[EFerrari]

52. We need these ads in CA immediately.

If Bruce McPherson certifies those machines, we're looking at a voters' revolt.

[pauldp]

55. I know I live in CA. That's why I'm so pissed. n/t

[EFerrari]

56. Don't want to mess up yr thread but we need a plan

in place if he does it.

I do not intend to vote on those machines.

[pauldp]

57. I agree. Any ideas?

[EFerrari]

58. A few. But, that's another thread. We have to think chess moves

ahead of these criminals.

[Land Shark]

39. Although this is elementary, make sure your vote software is written

such that it "passes" a pre-election test of a handful of votes per machine as well as a post election test. And also that a small number of machines randomly pulled on election day will get a few more dozen votes workout. Since they advertise what the fraud tests will be so broadly and they are so lackadaisacal, it is extraordinarily easy to overcome them. But since they are expressly used to engender public and press confidence, if we are going to act like a voting company we should pretend a bit that the testing is legit but also work readily around it.

[RandomKoolzip]

40. Wow. Reminds me of one of my threads from May 2004:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1521628

How to get freepers and repubs on our side regarding BBV:
Ask them this one simple question:

"How would you feel if Hillary Clinton was running for president against Bush and Susan McDougal, Al Franken, and Barbara Streisand were the ones appointed to count the votes?"

[Cocoa]

41. Hugo Chavez beat you to it

according to the right wing.

[emlev]

54. What--Sequoia? Ha! n/t

[BeFree]

47. Great idea - Fantastic!

It lead to this idea:

In my county, I will begin a small business to count votes cast on paper ballots.

I will propose to my county commissioners that my company will locally hire however many professional number crunchers as is necessary to count paper ballots for a price well under the fees proposed by the machine counters.

How can they say no?

I will hire locals, (as opposed to outsider companies), I will guarantee the vote count will stand up to a recount, will be accurate, will be timely, and will be totally overseen by the elections board and Supervisor of elections.

My supervisor of elections told me that the supervisor could NOT, with certainty, tell me my vote was counted as cast when cast on a DRE. The supervisor won't be able to say that after my company counts the paper ballot votes this time. And I'll probably make some money. Can you say Free Enterprise? I will compete with Diebold, and I will beat them.

[pauldp]

49. Not only can we take them down. We'll make money doing it!

I always say the simple solutions are the best.

Great idea.

[EFerrari]

50. I can see the stacks!

Go, BeFree! I'd love the machine pushers to debate you in a public hearing. :)