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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 06:35 PM
Original message
STOP Diebold in Ohio (Working Thread) on Strategy
Edited on Fri May-13-05 06:37 PM by rigel99
It's the 11th Hour. Ohio is illegally certifying Diebold in the state for VVPAT deadline was this week, when there is technically no certification for it federally... If OHIO gets Diebold and California Gets Diebold THAT'S ALL SHE WROTE.. SO let's win now!!!

from an email on my mailing list....
"In Ohio the state certification board ignored state law and certified Diebold’s DRE w/printer even though it is still not completely federally qualified. This appears to be the only way of ensuring that this system was certified before an invisible deadline for certification that comes up this Friday."


Can someone tell me if Diebold has developed:
a. A Printer that prints BALLOT information (not Election summary or Accumulation summary as pictured below) but actual voter ballot information and how does voter verify it and how does it end up physically in a locked ballot box????
b. How we can argue that they don't even do a VVPAT (as seen by next two pictures which is what I've found the AccuVote TS machines print out at end of election day and ONLY REPRESENT A POST internal to AccuVote Tabulation of summaries of all races and can easily have been changed 'enroute' to the SanDisk 64MB PCMCIA memory card inside the AccuVote Touch screen....




*** All Diebold gurus.. we're having a conference call Sunday night at 9pm... PM me if you want call details and why you can help out...

STRATEGISTS put on your hats.. how do citizens have standing in Ohio RE: Diebold... we don't technically buy anything from Diebold so how do we have standing to bring suit against them? what angles do we have RE: the illegal certification... failed candidate suit, class action, how?
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Here is WHAT IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE
From Bibb county activists (awesome folks) look at this website and scroll down till you see a picture of what an actual Diebold Paper Ballot (something showing the citizens actual vote) could actually look like *but sadly Diebold would not want to print this because then they could not fraudulently 'tabulate' or mistabulate the votes...

http://www.macon-bibb.com/voting.htm

*** BETTER YET, how about we spend the Millions of dollars on people to count our friggin paper ballots... why not go back to what we know works and what know is simple and fix the 'ballot stuffing' by having 2 locks on the ballot box
1 lock with key to elections official
1 lock with key by citizen who shows up election night to being the counting in FULL CITIZEN VIEW....
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Bookmarked, kicked and I'll be back
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. thanks for kick
Found link to the press release on Diebold VVPAT printers...
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=106584&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=667620&highlight=

this is funny cause it is out Jan. 27th and Cathy Cox caught on video saying paper ballots not as easy as plugging in an HP printer that to her knowledge there was a federally certified printer for Diebold and not likely to be one as it is not as easy as all that...
funny....
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. CONF CALL on WED NIGHT
for citizens who want to work on stopping Diebold in Ohio...

PM me for bridge details...


lawyers and activists who successfully pushing DRE machines out welcome!
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Please keep me informed of the details.
I'm involved in fighting Diebold here in CA. There's a hearing next month on whether to buy more Diebold machines, or kick them out of the state completely. We need all the ammunition we can get!

If e-mails from Californians will help, please let me know and I'll rustle up some cyber-troops.

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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Sorry about comin late during the call
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LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. Well where is everyone on this?
It appears ES&S is challenging Diebold also for doing illegal certification....Maybe someone needs to file several lawsuits. Do it right now, while they're on defensive I should think.
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Here is latest on ES&S Judge Agrees Voting Maker Has Right to Docs...
judges sides correctly...
JUDGE AGREES VOTING-MACHINE MAKER HAS RIGHT TO DOCUMENTS
Blackwell accused of holding talks giving Diebold an advantage to meet requirements

Thursday, May 19, 2005
NEWS 07C
By Alayna DeMartini
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

A voting-machine company is attempting to build a case that the Ohio secretary of state's office gave an unfair advantage to a competitor.

Yesterday, a Franklin County judge ruled that Election Systems & Software of Omaha, Neb., should be able to see correspondence from Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell's office.

The company, which sued Blackwell this month, has asked for communication involving the secretary of state's office, including some about how the voting machines made by Diebold Election Systems were certified by the state to replace outdated voting machines.

ES&S is competing with Diebold and other voting-machine makers to sell Ohio new machines.

In the lawsuit, the Omaha company accuses Blackwell of holding secret talks with Diebold, whose parent company is headquartered in North Canton.

David R. Langdon, a Cincinnati lawyer representing Blackwell's office, argued yesterday that the documents are private and protected under attorney-client privilege.

"We're not overly concerned about hiding something in these documents. (But) we don't want to waive'' attorney-client privilege, Langdon said.

The documents ES&S requested were not turned over to the company yesterday.

The secretary of state's attorneys haven't had a chance to present arguments countering Franklin County Common Pleas Judge Dale A. Crawford's decision and still have an opportunity to do that.

Currently, most Ohioans cast votes through punch-card machines, but those are being replaced nationally in an attempt to have a more accurate record of the vote.

So far, only Diebold has voting machines that meet the new state and federal requirements to offer electronic touch-screen systems with a paper record.

ES&S officials say they can produce a touch-screen machine that meets the requirement of having a paper audit trail by August. But that wouldn't meet the May 13 deadline Blackwell set in April for the voting-machine companies to be "certified,'' meaning they meet the specifications for the new machines.

ES&S is asking Crawford to throw out Blackwell's deadline so the company can compete. Crawford is expected to decide next week on the matter. (emphasis added.)

ES&S and other vendors were hampered in getting the job because the state didn't approve the specifications until March 24, ES&S spokeswoman Jill Friedman said.

ES&S officials also say that Blackwell's office had been working with Diebold to help that company meet the requirements, giving it an unfair advantage.

The process should have involved "all of the vendors at the same table together,'' Friedman said.

ES&S held a conference call with Blackwell's office in late March to discuss certification, but no one told the company at the time that Blackwell would be setting the May 13 deadline, said John P. Gilligan, ES&S attorney.

"We are more than bitter,'' Gilligan said. "The basic fairness of this process has been undermined.''

Carlo LoParo, spokesman for the secretary of state's office, said the May 13 deadline had to be set so Ohio could meet the federal requirement that punch-card voting machines be replaced by the first federal election of 2006.

"We have an obligation to comply with state and federal guidelines,'' LoParo said.

"We do not have an obligation to vendors who are lackadaisical in obtaining necessary federal and state certifications.''

[email protected]
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LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Good news, Blackwell's getting hit hard.
That's great news he isn't going to get away with it! It's high time he be forced into court to explain his obstruction of the Ohio recounts and voting on election day. :toast:
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Here's a flash for you lightening....
something pretty cool will happen this week..


look for it, cause it's coming according to my anonymous sources...

blackwell will be hit from all sides... just you wait and see...
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Roj -- singing to steppenwolf on the radio
"fire all of your guns at once, and, explode into space.
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
8. Great Rebuttal to Thomas Swidarski

Errors in the letter from Thomas W. Swidarski, President of Diebold Election Systems:

Error A. "Additionally, optical-scan machines are not 'far cheaper than touch-screens.' Per unit, the cost of optical scanners is about $1,000 more than a typical touch-screen machine."


In truth, New York State will save over $50 million dollars in up-front costs by purchasing paper-ballot-optical-scan systems (PBOS) rather than touch-screens (DREs). Mr. Swidarski failed to mention that we would need to purchase fewer PBOS systems than DREs.


One or more DREs would be needed to replace each lever machine. Meanwhile, one optical scanner can replace several lever machines. Small polling places can use one PBOS for several election districts. Only polling places with a very large number of election districts may require two or more PBOS systems.


Mr. Swidarski claims that a DRE is less expensive than an optical scanner, but this is true only for ATM-style DREs that are made by Diebold. Due to New York's full-face ballot requirement, we cannot use ATM-style DREs. The full-face DREs we will purchase are MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE per unit: a scanner is around $5500; a full-face DRE is around $8000!




Error B. "Regarding the cost advantages of optical-scan machines, you do not mention the long-term costs related to printing ballots that are inevitably passed on to taxpayers".


In truth, the long term costs of DREs are far higher, even considering the cost of ballots for the PBOS systems. Not only do DREs require substantially higher storage and transportation costs, but they have a lifespan of about 5 years. Optical scan systems have a lifespan of 12-15 years. Counties will need to buy completely new equipment in 5 years with DRES! Also, paper ballots must still be printed with DRE systems for absentee, affidavit, and emergency ballots. A cost comparison of two Florida Counties using DRES and PBOS respectively showed that the county using DREs spent over a million dollars more per year (http://www.votersunite.org/info/costcomparison.asp).



Error C. "A recent Caltech-M.I.T. study clearly shows that touch-screens are the most accurate and efficient method of voting. The study recognizes Georgia, which uses touch-screens across the state, as making the greatest improvement in voting accuracy throughout the country."


In truth, no study has ever shown the accuracy of touch-screen systems, since there has NEVER been an independent audit of these systems. The CalTech-M.I.T. study used unverified and unverifiable numbers provided by the states, which simply made various assumptions about their equipment.


Moreover, when studies such as the one from Cal-Tech-MIT compare "undervotes" we need to know specifically what was counted for each system. It has been alleged that when Diebold reports "undervotes" they are reporting only races in which multiple candidates are elected to fill multiple offices, and the voter has selected fewer than the maximum number of candidates allowed. Diebold’s count of undervotes would not include a race for President, where only one choice is allowed, but no choice is recorded; Diebold would call this a "blank vote," not an "undervote."





Misleading statements in the letter from Michael Shamos


Misleading statement A. "an optical-scan ballot can be marked by a voter in an infinite number of ways."


In truth, almost all wrongly-marked paper ballots will be detected as invalid ballots by the optical scanner, and the voter would be allowed to correct the ballot BEFORE it is cast. Scanners detect over-votes, under-votes, and stray marks.


Misleading statement B. "no machine has ever been built that can read a ballot the way a human eye does, and there is no assurance that the machine will count the ballot the way it was marked by the voter."


In truth, machines work differently than the human eye, but machines can read much faster and more accurately. Optical scanners used by our post office read scribbled addresses on envelops, and optical scanners used by our banking system read billions of checks daily (with an error rate that is close to zero).


A machine might count the votes on a ballot incorrectly because the machine might be programmed wrong. This problem is not related to how the machine reads. This problem is related to human errors in programming, and has to be detected by routine logic and accuracy testing before the election, and manual recounts of ballots after the election.



Misleading statement C. "the mark made by a voter may not be counted because the states have developed different and obscure criteria for what constitutes a valid optical vote." "There is no consistent method of determining voter intent from an optical ballot"


In truth, there is much corruption in the laws, regulations, and practices of various states, and the solution is to reform the laws, regulations, and practices so that the obvious intent of the voter is counted. Problems can be hidden but not corrected by using electronic voting equipment that cannot or will not be audited so that errors cannot be detected.


Misleading statement D. "Electronic machines ... offer a finite number of yes-no choices, so there is no possibility of mistaking voter intent."


In truth, electronic machines are dependent on their programming, which can make any mistake imaginable. Electronic machines offer infinite possibilities for undetected loss and change of the voter's intent via hacking, corrupt insiders, and innocent errors in programming.

http://www.wheresthepaper.org/NYT03_14LettersToEditorWithComment.htm

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riqster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. New around here but have been working on this issue for quite some time.
Edited on Fri May-20-05 07:32 AM by riqster
Other boards and through acquaintances. It looks like Kenny Boy has been blocked again, but we need to find a way to shut him down.
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. welcome rigster
welcome to DU
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pgh_dem Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. re: replacing lever machines
What's wrong with lever machines anyway?
Been voting on them since I was old enough, they don't produce a verifiable ballot, but I always figured they were 'safer' than DRE's.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. yes rigel---and when you consider
DRE's cost $3000.00 to $3500.00 ---w/o printer
ONE DRE can process up to 10 ballots/hr
ONE opscan can process up to 360 ballots/hr

So you would have to spend about 100 grand on DRE's to process 360 ballots/hr

If you dont keep the batteries charged between elections the batteries die--and need to be replaced. Have you ever bought a new battery for a laptop? They start about $100 & go to $200.

When you use DRE's you still have to print paper absentee ballots and spare ballots because DRE's freeze up (MSwindows)or stop working, so election officials still to print a significant number of paper ballots.
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riqster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. Yes, Diebold has a VVPB available
What you see there is the old style 'paper trail', which is about as useful as tits on a bullfrog. However, Diebold has had the capacity to provide an actual paper ballot backup for over a year now. Kenny couldn't make up his mind on standards, so it wasn't required.

At least, that's the story. IMNSHO, Kenny didn't want any transparency for 2004 and delayed in order to not have that layer of accountability.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-05 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. it's not a VVPB, it's a VVPAT
big difference :)

this article by John Gideon describes the new VVPAT:

http://www.votetrustusa.org/blogs/newdieboldprinters.htm
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
15. Federal Standards are Voluntary, right?
Edited on Fri May-20-05 02:38 PM by Bill Bored
But many states have signed on.

The question is whether once they've signed on, they forfeited their right not to comply.

Then you have to consider how this will affect the HAVA money used to buy these toys. There is NO requirement for a voter-verified-PAPER-ANYTHING in HAVA!

My advice, talk to a HAVA lawyer.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. HAVA yeah --wretch wretch choke cough
A touchscreen voting system that issues the voter a paper receipt would be a way of verifying the vote count. Comparing this paper trail to the computerized vote tally is simple and is arguably an effective way of verifying the vote count. Some say the lack of a paper trail is just an oversight, or that what we are seeing are the growing pains of an emerging technology. These points are invalid when you consider that when you took twenty bucks out of the ATM at the bank, you got a receipt. And chances are that the manufacturer of the banks’ ATM, may be the manufacturer that made the touchscreen voting machine you vote with. More to the point is that in 2002 Tom Delay saw to it that the provision mandating a paper trail for all touchsreen DRE’s (Direct reporting electronic) was removed from legislation known as H.A.V.A.. There can be only one purpose in creating an unverifiable vote count. And that is to make sure that the vote count is not verifiable.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
20. Can we connect Diebold w Lucas County OH Coingate Scandal? See DU post
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x371192
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. thanks mod mom
we're all over this...

thanks for the links....
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. glad to be of help. I've been pushing the Lucas County connection
for a while here, Coingate was like a gift from progressive heaven!
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-05 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. lucas is on the chopping blockk.
do you know why they promoted jill over paula (the rep. over the dem.)

do you know anything about julia bates?

If you could ask Ms. Noe anything incriminating what would it be?
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-05 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
25. is this what you're looking for
The New Diebold Printers
by John Gideon

Diebold Election Systems has begun showing its new voter verified paper record printer to election officials around the country. The new system is still not qualified by an Independent Testing Authority approved by the EAC.



http://www.votetrustusa.org/blogs/newdieboldprinters.htm
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-21-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. thanks..
yup, this sinister little printer DOES NOT LET THE VOTER KEEP HIS BALLOT to handplace it in the ballot box..

they print it themselves and then move it reel to reel and keep it in a locked box inside the Touchscreen.... wow, what a great way to create more fraud..

just have 2 printers.. one for the voter's choice and one rigged...

these diebold criminals are really brilliant...

they are counting that we will never ever count the paper ever again...

I can't wait to catch them in the fraud with these new machines
that cost $8,000 (per NYVV.org website)
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riqster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-24-05 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Look past the black boxes....
One thing to keep in mind is that voting 'machines' are only part of the picture. Voter registration information is kept in the digital world, and thus is vulnerable to fraud.

Also, remember that Diebold, Triad, and ES&S make voting devices AND voter registration software. These can be made to interact. There is also a mandate that county VR databases be linked to the state elections office.

Since the 'case' in WA is based on voter elgibility, voter reg data must now occupy a front-row seat in our collective conciousness.
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rigel99 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-24-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. YES VOTER registration data also under attack
FYI, California chose Choicepoint for their voter registration database, the same guys that scrubbed the felon roles have also
taken this kind of scheming to a completely new level...

we need to ramp up an all out attack and support SEC investigations of Doug Curling for selling stock in Nov. when he was clear that millions of his database had suffered identity theft...

time to start taking our power back as citizens....
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riqster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-24-05 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Not just the companies
In Ohio, the Counties are required to work towards an online, 24/7 live voter registration database link with the SOS office. Some had it before the 2004 election. Does anybody here NOT think Blackwell would have used that for partisan purposes?
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