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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 02:57 PM
Original message
On the day after the 2006 election....
...how will you decide whether the election was fair and fraud-free?


Good question, posed to me recently from someone organizing a panel discussion.

OK I have given this a LOT of thought and have my own ideas formed up pretty well, but I would like to hear what "y'all" think before I post my own.

MB


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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. If the Democrats win
It will be a fair election. if the repukes win with big margins it will be a crooked election.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. it will be rigged regardless
if the democrats win, it will be because the rigging wasn't enough to overcome the voting.
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. as long as the machines are involved
there will NOT be a fair election.

dp
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. If we insist that there must be a paper trail!
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. have a backpack with food and water, we will be in the streets for a long
Edited on Fri May-13-05 03:16 PM by sam sarrha
time.. bring your own toilet paper. and the stuff that neutralizes tear gas from your eyes, have extra for friends in eyedropper bottles. hope and pray the police take our side.. we already know the National Guard will..!!

have some little cameras... we will have to work out a list, and go with a buddy so one person doesn't have to carry all the stuff.

we might have to invest in some arm sport guards to block police batons, bike helmets.. the neosporin , bandages and shaving sticks to stop cuts from bleeding, so we can stay in the field till we win. if we lose we will all become slaves.
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. I'd like to reccommend a video to you called
"A Force More Powerful" It is outstanding and will lift your heart. We will not fail.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. we need to start a campaign with toilet paper ballots, that is what your
vote will be worth if we dont get a paper trail by then...

sell rolls of toilet paper with the first few sheets printed like a ballot to fund the mission... and give them to our friends and family, have them for sale EVERYWHERE, to advertize the problem..

we need to start now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the sheet would have several box's with an x voting for paper trail and democracy verifiable elections

the voting laws require a method that can be recounted..
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!
May I pass this on?? I LOVE IT!
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. paper trail no better than toilet paper
please hear me out. even if they give us a paper trail, it does nothing. it's not worth the paper it's printed on. paper trail only means you can do a recount. paper trail doesn't change the way DRE machines function in any way. there is still secret vote counting. there is still secret software. still, no one knows what happened to your vote. virtually NOTHING changes with a paper trail.

we need paper ballots, not paper trail.

and more than anything, we need transparent elections, from beginning to end. no secret software code anywere. every step must be observable.

And Diebold has to go. They have convicted felons writing the secret software code that counts our votes.

Anyone writing election software should have to go through rigid scrutiny and background checks.

If convicted felons can't vote, they shouldn't be able to write the vote counting software either.

paper trails are worthless. check this out:

http://www.solarbus.org/election/articles/0313-ballots....
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Yep,couldn't agree more
Paper ballots hand counted and recorded by the people.Then scanned and tabulated for accuracy.In that order!
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Blue Shark Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. I sincerely hope...
...That the Dems get with the program, play hard-ball, and out hack the competition. This game can be played by both sides and now that we have ceded three elections to fraud it is time go get real!
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kansasblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-13-05 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. it will be tougher

We had it easy this time. Next time the clues will be buried even deeper.
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SoCalDemGrrl Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
10. With Bush at 40% approval, I would expect a Dem sweep so
if anything other than that happens, we know the fix is in. Wait, what am I saying, I've been on this board and have seen the research. THE fix IS in!! Unless we have hand counted paper ballots in 2006, we can all kiss democracy as we know it goodbye.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
11. It depends on who is counting the votes. Period.
If there are transparent elections with observers who can actually observe the vote counting.

If Diebold is counting the votes, forget it. I don't care who wins. I don't care if they have the stupid paper printers on their DREs.

It all depends on who is counting the votes and if it is observable.

Secret vote counting?

Not in my democracy, thank you.
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Your on a roll
let them have their machines, so that they can op-tiscan and or direct record electronically to their tabulators from one prison cell to the other.Because thats where their all headed. Their gig is up!
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
14. I can tell you now and in advance in case I am not here.
Edited on Sat May-14-05 06:13 AM by Andy_Stephenson
There will be fraud and another election WILL be stolen. If yall aren't oout in the streets at that point...there is no hope for our country.
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Dammit Andy, cut that out... you will be here!
Edited on Sat May-14-05 06:38 AM by demodonkey

But what you say is part of what I'm thinking too...

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adolfo Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
16. Simple
As long as this map remains the same, the election here will not be fair.

Regardless of who wins.

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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Yup
you're right.
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