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AAR's MIXED MESSAGES is Why We Lose

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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:13 PM
Original message
AAR's MIXED MESSAGES is Why We Lose
Dumbass that he is, Dubya delivers a clear message. "I'm driving into the ditch. I drove into the ditch. Elect me to drive us out of the ditch (Thanks Mr. Stewart).

Here's AAR's message:

Franken: We lost. Oh well...let's all move on.

Rhodes: Wake the fuck up people! We got screwed.

Schultz: Gee, How do we Regroup?

Malloy: Wake the fuck up people! We got screwed.



Do you really think the vileness of Hannity, Condi, Rush, Tucker, etc. would be anything less than one coherent message? We need a centralized message and a centralized deliverer of said message. We don't have one. Therefore, we'll continue to get our ass kicked - even in elections we've won.

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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. I kind of disagree.
I enjoy my radio hosts having different takes on things. They aren't a political party. They are there to make me think.
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. If we lived in a smart country, I would agree with you
But we don't. Ask Joe off the street...what do you think of John Kerry?

Uhhh...he's a flip-flopper?

:argh:
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. there was a time when the Dems fought for Joe on the street
and not by calling him dumb
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Goldom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. AAR didn't even exist until this election
how can you blame it as the reason we lose, period.
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MnFats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. ok, it ain't perfect, but ain't you glad they're on the air?
we need them badly for the next four years, even if they're not on the same page...
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Of course I'm glad...
But the message is muddled. We have an election that Kerry clearly won, and as a group we're showing weakness and confusion. It doesn't help us.
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oscar111 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Urge all AAR to agree, but expect some outlier opinions
like the original post, but realistically, we can urge hosts to agree... then must expect only a few to agree.

when we get a larger no. of hosts nationally, with many local wannabees.... like hate radio wannabees... we will have enough of them spontaneously doing the rational opinion...., that outlier opinions wont hurt us so much.

So build AAR! leaflets from your own mind and computer printer. Donate!
INclude AAR in ur will.

If AAR had been here since 1920, no Hoover, thus no Depression, no Vietnam, no Nixon, No Reagan, no Iraq war, no Bush. Instead, President Kucinich and average income of $100 000.
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TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. Actually, getting a centralized, singular message.........
would make us more like the political group we're trying to dispose of.

Democrats are independent thinkers - that's what makes us Democrats. Otherwise, WE ARE BORG.
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shrub chipper Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. I, for one, appreciate AAR.
We don't have to be in lock step. We can all think for ourselves.
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Ducks In A Row Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. each host is his/her own show. AAR isn't like freeperland where
everyone marches lock step

now Al's giving up pisses he off, but I just don't listen
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Chimpanzee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. You should have listened to Franken today
He was all over the voter fraud thing. I think he's going to come over to 'the light side'.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. Schultz isn't AAR anyway-- I know, I know my local station carries him
too, but he is carried in syndication, not as part of AAR, so to the extent we might expect similarity in approach with Al, Mike, Randi and others, we can't necessarily with Schultz.

BTW, am I the only one who gets a little unnerved at how much Ed Schultz sounds like Limbaugh? I mean his voice and delivery, definitely not his message. At any rate the similarity makes it a little hard for me to listen to him but I'm doing so more.
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I loved Schultz's delivery before the election...
but now that he's rolled over like Franken, I'm pissed off all over again.
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. I dunno...
Edited on Mon Nov-08-04 11:24 PM by high density
Eighteen or so hours of programming a day with the same five talking points would not be that entertaining, in my opinion.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. I like having AAR available...
...I think it's great. And I'm not some blithering willfully ignorant twit that needs to have one "message" pounded into my head 24-7. There's some I like, some I don't.
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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
14. A left wing echo machine is just as bad as a right wing echo machine.
Edited on Mon Nov-08-04 11:29 PM by rooboy
This isn't some sort of football game where you can just pick and choose tactics and methods as you wish. Ever heard of PRINCIPLES? Telling people what to say on air betrays the principle of free speech, which is one thing that I would NEVER EVER surrender - especially not for a political party.
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:31 PM
Original message
We got screwed out of an ELECTION!!!
I'm not saying all hosts need to agree with each other on social or economic issues, but HELLO? We just got worked. The evidence is there. The "let's just Move Ons" are KILLING us.
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sr_pacifica Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
15. I disagree with this notion of a centralized message
Edited on Mon Nov-08-04 11:32 PM by sr_pacifica
In all the discussions on what do we need to do differently, this is one idea that has been cropping up, "we need a clear message." I think it is equivalent of recommending the Democratic party become just as stupid as the Republican party.

Let's see...what are some of the other "let's be more like republicans and then maybe we'll win the next presidential election" ideas? Let's come out against gay marriage rights, let's show we're just as much christian as "they" are, let's appeal to simpletons...

any others I'm forgetting?
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
18. If the right had only one network, they might also appear as fragmented.
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jmatthan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
19. All their messages appear to be consistent
Edited on Mon Nov-08-04 11:45 PM by jmatthan
Al Franken is not saying that the Democrats lost, but is trying to analyse why they lost despite all the major efforts. This is important in any analysis as this may not be the last election in the US, although it does look like it!! Al Franken continues to look at the issues of today and continues to expound views unlike the Democratic politicians!!

Randi and Mike have a solid activist base and they have energized all those who know there was a conspiracy. Have you heard Mike rant about Fallujah as what is happening today.

Never heard this guy Schultz, but if his message is to regroup, then that is an important message as the choice of Kerry as a candidate itself may have been one of the greatest mistakes of the Democratic party. That was pushed on the party by the withdrawal of Dean (for his voicing his sentiments loudly) and Wes Clarke. Only Dennis Kucinch had the courage to try and influence the issues from his standpoint. Yes regrouping is necessary as Kerry now stands idly by and allows the crushing of the people of Fallujah!! Is that the stand of the Democratic Party or has Kerry just withdrawn from the scenario as he no longer is a Presidential candidate?

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Did you say Finland?
Impressive.
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GregD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Ed's great - takes no prisoners
He's a former conservative from the midwest
http://www.wegoted.com /

Also http://www.thomhartmann.com - great intellectual, scholar, writer and does a very good interview.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
22. Hey-we WON the last 4 presidential elections!!! But a simple clear message
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 12:25 AM by JohnOneillsMemory
is definitely needed. That's how TV Nation will figure out just what 'product' we are selling in the market place of ideas (and propaganda).

I love all of AAR but have always wondered about Sam Seder. The other day he was bellowing "Gaaawd!" over and over and over.

I was horrified to hear Sam going ballistic over the bogus 'moral values' angle of the evangelical Christian's vote for the Boy King.

Yes, it is a story that can get you pissed since so many of these people applaud atrocity and call it virtue with no sense of reality.

But instead of rationally discussing:
1)the Dominionists like Scalia who don't believe in democracy
2)the hypocrisy of Christians starving the poor
3)the hypocrisy of killing 100,000 innocents 'for democracy'
4)the medieval attitude towards gays AND women
5)the 'Chosen Few' mindset morphed into 'Master Race'
6)the damage done by restarting the Crusades in a nuclear age
7)the danger of Armageddonists running the country,

Sam raged and roared "Gaaaaawd!" in puerile sneering contempt over and over and over. I thought he would never stop.

He acted just like the ugly propaganda-generated stereotype of the 'Hollywood liberal who mocks religion' that so many Repubs react against. Hell, he grossed me out and I'm not even a 'believer.'

Even though I am a hardcore Rationalist/Pagan, I was disgusted by Sam's performance. It was self-indulgent,boorish, and alienating.

He is inarticulate and lacks insight or sensitivity to others.
He should be replaced because he doesn't reflect liberal progressive values nor does he deliver info without restarting sentences over and over as he rants, babbles, and fishes around for what the hell he means.

So many others would make a better co-host for the witty, cogent, and articulate Garafalo. I wish she would atleast reign him in or train him.
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