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truthpusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:29 PM
Original message
Arnebeck: Request for sanctions over (Ohio) challenge frivolous
From the LBN Forum

http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=2873366

Lawyers: Request for sanctions over election challenge frivolous

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- The lawyers behind an aborted challenge of the presidential election told the Ohio Supreme Court they presented a convincing argument and shouldn't be sanctioned.

The four lawyers said in legal documents filed Friday that the challenge they filed on behalf of 37 voters included enough evidence of voting irregularities to back up their allegations of widespread fraud.

The filing was in response to a request on Jan. 19 by Ohio Attorney General Jim Petro to sanction lawyers Cliff Arnebeck, Robert Fitrakis, Susan Truitt and Peter Peckarsky.

Petro's motion, filed on behalf of Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, said the election challenge was meritless and filed for partisan political purposes. Petro's office argued the challenge presented little evidence and instead relied on theories and conjectures.

more:
http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=2873366
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks, truthpusher! n/t
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corbett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Kickin' For The Truth
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MsMagnificent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. WHO'S being partisan?!
If Blackwell had ANY concern for ethics and the respect for ANY constituents who feel they've been disenfranchised, he would be gladly be on a NON-PARTISAN DRIVE to try to find out if their fears were founded.

As much as I detest 51% of FuckHeads
sorry, did I mean BuckEye's? (yea a bit mean-spirited but I'm sorry I can't much help it -- I'm PISSED!)
I find myself being more and more happy that we're forced to move there... for I am anxious for my voice to be heard, also, in that state.

Is his position publicly elected or appointed? Does anyone know of a new voter primer for how the Ohio political echelon is appointed/arranged? Thanks! :)
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Blackwell was elected in 1998. Looks like two Dems were running which
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 09:50 PM by KaliTracy
split the ticket

Mark A Hanni........241,988 votes
Charleta Tavares....427,805 votes

total Democrat votes........669,793

J.Kenneth Blackwell.........601,746

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/results/11-02-04.htm

He's actively running for Governor for 2006.... and I plan to be very active in seeing this does NOT happen (that he doesn't win) if nothing comes from the election investigations.

when are you moving to Ohio? Grew up in the Toledo area, and now live in the Cincinnati area.

:hi:
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MsMagnificent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:54 PM
Original message
Thanks for the info KaliTracy!
Husband is already there, in the Warren area, while I pack up the rest of the house... hope to be out there full-time in a month.
Do you know of any polically involved groups out that way, as far as Cleveland? (the nearest large city -- but I'm sure you know : )
Oh heck, I'll even travel BEYOND that... it's time to get active and Ohio is one of the best places! I've lived my entire life in a Blue State so while proud of my fellow states-people; exercising one's right to vote was little more, at least it felt, like preaching to the choir. (Hope that makes sense).
Was just saying that, for the first time in my life, I'd love to be arrested ...but esp. for protesting 'outside the free speech zone'. I'm just waiting for that to reach the Supreme Court because god dammit every square FOOT of the United States is a Free Speech zone!

LOL Yeah I'm raring to go!
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. Warren County (Near Butler County/Miami County) -- or Warren City?
I live in West Chester, which is near Warren County.

To be honest, I've only started getting involved after the elections -- things weren't right, and I became pretty enraged. (Ironically, I became enraged because of easy it was for me to vote in my upper-middle class/affluent/mostly Caucasian/Excellent School designation neighborhood. * rallied here to over 50,000 supporters.

I estimated at least 23 punch card machines in one 1 and 1/2 mile strip in a neighborhood that had a LOT of polling places. I had no wait. Something wrong with that picture, just in terms of equity and fairness. It wasn't until later, after I got more involved on-line that I realized that this just wasn't about ineptness or mistakes. Which fired me up more.... I joined DU at the end of November.

I went to two rallies in Columbus -- One in December and the Jessie Jackson one in January. Met some cool people at the Jackson rally from this area that are starting their own PAC, but they haven't responded to the emails I've sent (though they might have changed addresses, they were in the process of launching a new website).

I agree -- our rights are being trampled on by smug politicians that better get a clue. We Will Not Be Silenced!

Good luck on your move!

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MsMagnificent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. City of Warren, NE Ohio
just N of Youngstown, kind of near the PA border.

I heard Blackwell pooh-pooh'ed the "allegation" that the voting machines were not evenly distributed depending on population! Ridiculous and untrue, is what he and ALL of Nightline's pundits said!
Said, mind you... not, by good investigative journalism, proved untrue!

That's the message I got from the smug LITTLE "investigation" that Ted Koppel "conducted" in a recent Nightline.
--sorry about all the quotes... it's the closest I can come to conveying my sarcastic vocal inflection

And, although I used to enjoy Nightline (admittedly WAY back) *smug* is all I can think of when I watch Koppel now -- that word defines him. Oh wait,Condescending is good & appropriate too... when I saw him interview Jon Stewart, I recall bitching out loud (and long!) to the TV LOL
But there are plenty of other appropriate words for Koppel, I'm sure. He has, IMO, become truly insufferable.

Sorry hon -- feels like all I've done is gripe. I never used to be so bitchy. Now, seems that angry is all I am anymore. :(
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I'm with ya -- understand totally, no need to appologize.
I just watched Faye's movie (I just responded to it, and kicked it up) -- I'm going to send a link of it to all of the Ohio people who have told us over and over "nothing happened" here -- oh, they won't watch it -- but at least I know that they have been given the information to SEE some of the things that happened on that day.

I'm angry/distracted a lot too -- I work in a place that is all Republican -- no one to talk to about this at all there. DH is getting a little sick of hearing about it. I'm sure the people I e-mail with information say "oh no, not again...." (though they've all assured me they want updates).

I've been looking a lot at Blackwell, I think he started voter suppression in 2000 (over 900 precincts were cut in 1999 -- over 700 were cut this election cycle in "preparation" for e-voting machines which we didn't end up getting... but we've gained over 800,000 new voters)

I think we had long lines in 2000, and people just walked away (63% voter turnout that year) -- since 1980 voter turnout had been in the 70% range (1996 it was 67%, all the rest it was 70% or higher). I think Florida's problems overshadowed this -- though I don't know. I'm sure it wasn't as bad as it was this year, which means it probably didn't get reported. Haven't done any research on it yet -- though I do have a post on these boards with all of the turnout numbers from 1980 to present. I'll point you to it if you are interested...

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MsMagnificent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yes please!
I'd very much like to see the Ohio voting trends!

I'm a bit concerned already with, given Blackwell's past poor performance and his power over the state's electoral system, exactly HOW Ohio would be guaranteed a fair upcoming gubernatorial election... and I take it he'll be overseeing it during his own run?
Or will he finally recognize something (ANYthing!) as a true conflict of interest?
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I've posted the Stats info in several places -- this thread was saying the
Optiscans were a good Idea. so I had a little rant with the stats, here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

the original thread starts here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


I need to say that with the statistics I am only stating what is there -- my interpretation of them may be based on the fact they seem odd (especially in light of the other years, and other precinct changes) and I'm making assumptions -- in my opinion this information needs to be further investigated, that's all.

Several people have said that it's not Blackwell that makes the precinct changes, but as the rest of the thread states, he is the one in charge -- and I find it odd that this all started after he took office.

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MsMagnificent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. *double posted* -- sorry, deleting
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 10:55 PM by MsMagnificent
Darn hiccups!
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Stevepol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. You better stay on the track of the voting machines. No Dem can win
anymore unless the voting machines are made fair and transparent or better yet thrown out entirely. This is the source of the far right take-over, NOT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. Kerry won this past election something like 52% to 47% if the machines had not counted the votes. Of course there were plenty of other dirty tricks, but that's the basic reason. That has to be understood and clearly understood or nothing will be possible. After the GA fraud of 02 in which Roy Barnes and Max Cleland were defeated by the voting machines in an obvious fraud and nothing was done about it, I knew and many others knew as well that the 04 election would be just like the 02 GA election: the pre-election polls would indicate a win for the Dems, the exit polls would indicate a wine for the Dems, yet in the late hours somehow the Repubs numbers would exceed the Dem numbers. It's just n ot possible to beat these machines.

DEMAND A VOTER-VERIFIED PAPER BALLOT AND AUDITS FOR EVERY ELECTION.
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qwghlmian Donating Member (768 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. There is a lot of talk about "machines not counting
the votes" but there is very little action to prove that allegation. Today, right now, in Ohio and other states, you can go to your local BOE and request to conduct your own personal recount in any precinct(s) that you want. If you find any significant discrepancies between your count and official election results - you will prove that machines miscounted and provide proof for all these allegations. No one (AFAIK) is doing it, correct me if I'm wrong.
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BushSpeak Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. Blackwell won the '98 General Election rather handily with 56%
You were looking at the Primary results.

I had heard that before and checked out Ohio voting patterns for several years. It seems that Ohio has been anchored in the Republican column for at least 15 years, probably a lot longer.

I was wondering if the Republican control of Secretary of State had anything to do with the rightward turn, but the results seemed pretty consistent for the past several elections, unlike Florida where the famous Dixiecrat counties have gone 30% to the right, across the board, in the two elections under brother Jeb - 15% in each election. Almost to consistent and uniform to be credible.
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. sorry about that -- should have looked more closely.
A couple of weird numbers in looking at the primary/general election -- but all numbers are weird to me -- I'm not saying there is anything to this -- the spread of districts the Dems won (if you add both Dem candidate numbers up in the primary) to the ones Blackwell won are pretty consistant -- a few went from a Democrat lean in the primary to Republican -- but the Republicans probably didn't vote in the primaries in the same numbers. Especially in Mahoning County

1998
Primary
Democrat Votes (added together)...... 48,653
Blackwell Votes........................8,667

General Election
Charleta Tavares......................49,689
Blackwell.............................31,151



I'll stop looking at spread sheets now.
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. You said:
"If Blackwell had ANY concern for ethics and the respect for ANY constituents who feel they've been disenfranchised, he would be gladly be on a NON-PARTISAN DRIVE to try to find out if their fears were founded."

Why wouldn't he do that? There seems to be only one good answer: he's a crook!
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liberalla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 04:10 AM
Response to Original message
10. The Free Press is helping raise money for their Legal Defense
"Ohio Sanctions Defense Fund
Defend the attorneys against the partisan attack by Ohio Attorney General Jim Petro and Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell. Read Open Letter to Ohio Attorney General Jim Petro from Representative John Conyers, Jr. or Ohio's GOP Attorney-General launches revenge attack on Election Protection legal team for more information and check the site for updates."



If interested, go to: http://freepress.org/store.php#defense

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. EXCELLENT! Please donate to their defense! KICK!
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 12:03 PM by Peace Patriot
Even if you can only afford a small amount! EVERY DONATION HELPS, and every donation is an endorsement of their heroic work.

You can also send donations directly to:

Alliance for Democracy, to: Ohio Election Litigation Fund, Cliff Arnebeck, Esq., 1351 King Ave., 1st Floor, Columbus, Ohio 43212

Green Party (noble souls): http://votecobb.org/, or Cobb/LaMarche. PO Box 693. Eureka, CA 95502-0693

----

Note: I'm not sure if Arnebeck's "Ohio Election Litigation Fund" can directly cover their personal costs if they are sanctioned, so best contribute at freepress.org, which is specifically for that purpose.

----

Given the Conyers letter in their defense, and the Conyers report, I don't see how they can be sanctioned, but then...

I don't see how Bush can still be president...

I don't see how we could have invaded Iraq...

I don't see how Washington DC and the Pentagon had no air defense on 9/11...

.....
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
14. Rep. Conyers certainly does not think Ohio fraud is "frivolous"
His 102 page report cites election fraud in Ohio.
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berniew1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
19. Documentation supporting Arnebeck suit is strong & clear- problems real
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 11:44 PM by berniew1
Ohio
http://www.northnet.org/minstrel/alpage.html
http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html
http://www.freepress.org departments articles

and the widespread fraud, dirty tricks, and suppression of minorities in over 20 states similar to that in Ohio also supports their suit:
http://www.flcv.com/ussumall.html

There is also more documentation on Ohio in the U.S. summary.
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