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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:19 PM
Original message
Moore Working on Election Fraud Film, Right Wing Tried to Sabotage Chat
From the web chat last night

"Sabrina: Did you get any good election fraud footage that you intend on using for a new documentary? We love you Michael Moore!!!!

Michael Moore: I don't usually talk too much about what I'm doing when I'm doing it. I'll just leave it at that :)"

http://www.channel4.com/film/reviews/feature.jsp?id=141...


FYI -- evidently right-wingers logged in to the chat in mass numbers to try and shut it down -- people trying to get in received "full session" notices. Here is his opening comment:

"Michael Moore: I just want to say that I feel really bad that Channel 4 innocently thought "Wouldn't it be nice if we had a filmmaker do a webchat?" but unfortunately the people of Channel 4 don't live in the US and didn't anticipate that certain Americans, when they learned of this webchat, did not see it as a webchat with a filmmaker but as an interview with the devil himself. They discussed throughout the week how and what they could do to stop it. So my apologies to the British audience who logged in this evening to have this webchat (the only one I have agreed to do in the past year) only to be prohibited from having this discussion with me thanks to the lunatic Right Wing in the US."
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. thought he was working on BIG Pharmaceutical Industry??? --
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I heard that as well. But you can see the comment yourself. nt
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. What idiots! Don't they realize how much they SHOW THEIR FEAR
when they pull this crap! Well, it works for me!!! They are so afraid of the truth and Moore shoves it right back down their throat!
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. audio clip of this statement from Michael.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
32. Thanks! I liked hearing his
voice say those words!
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. Unfortunately, I don't think he has a clue about election fraud...
...unless he's being very cagey (--and I'm not falling for "cagey" any more, after what we went through with Kerry and his concession).

Read these MM quotes from the Ch4 web chat:

Sue Jolliffe wants to know: "Michael, in your opinion, why do you think the US public voted George Bush in again for a second term."

Michael Moore said: "As the film says - fear works. Bush and his people did a masterful job of scaring US people into believing that if they didn't vote for him they would die. Crazy as that sounds - that's the magic that they worked. Fear will transcend everything."

---

Phil G wants to know: "Do you think that the success of Mel Gibson's The Passion Of The Christ, a film based around Christian beliefs told us more about how the American public would vote rather than your own Farenheit 911?"

Michael Moore said: "Yes."

---

ElectrO wants to know: "What are your views on how Bush used Religion to get the vote of the people as well as using all the negative campaigns against Kerry?"

Michael Moore said: "Bush and the republicans have no shame and will resort to anything in order to win. The democrats show up to a gun fight with a butter knife and thus they lose."

---

Moore: "i think as soon as we get the white house back in the hands of the majority of this country. It's a majority who does not believe in the Bush administration, but unfortunately too many of them don't vote."

-----------------

DOESN'T ANYONE HERE HAVE AN AVENUE FOR GETTING INFO TO MICHAEL MOORE?

I'm afraid my questions suggesting that Michael do an action throwing electronic voting machines into Boston Harbor, doing a new film called "F11/2," and providing him the urls to the Freeman, Baiman and other reports, got lost in the 4,000 questions they received.

If Michael is doing a film about the election, how can we prevent him from putting out the mis-information that Bush "won"?

Let's have a DU contest: WHO CAN GET DR. STEVEN FREEMAN'S REPORTS (ETC.) TO MICHAEL MOORE???
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. If he looks at the Conyers hearings he'll get leads to nearly all of it.
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CAcyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. In a way, though, MM is right either way
Edited on Fri Jan-28-05 12:50 PM by CAcyclist
(edited to remove emoticon)

Bush is "President" right?
He did get inaugurated.
How did that happen?

One:People actually elected him. If so, they did elect him out of fear

The other option:

Two: The election was rigged.

But Bush is president, so how can he be president if the election is rigged.
Because no one will listen to people who are trying to show how it can be done.

Why aren't they listening? Fear.

It still comes back to fear.

I have confidence in MM.
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AtLiberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. My guess is that Moore...
...will mention election fraud in Sicko, the manner he did in Fahrenheit 9-11. Election fraud deserves its own documentary.
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. I have been sending him information about Ohio since the first week
of the election. He did start supporting Conyers by putting links about Ohio when they came out.

Those of you who think he might only be looking at "suppression" might be right, but I think his scope is more comprehensive.

After the election, when interviewed and asked "what happened" he says "Bush got more votes" and he is technically correct (according to the certified results). I'm not so sure that he doesn't believe, but that he's playing their game (yes, this could be an idealistic dream of mine) -- of telling people (mainly Republicans) what they want to hear.... "nothing happened" The "religious vote" overshadowed everyone else, "long lines" are just an election-day problem we need to deal with...

That said, you could keep e-mailing him (I love your e-machines into the Boaston Harbor) -- or send him stuff via snail mail. I read on the General Discussion board a couple of weeks ago that he was supposedly supporting a Billboard campaign -- and that there was a committee meeting about this these billboards -- does anyone know about it here? I'm sorry I don't remember what day it was.... my suggestion -- keep feeding him and his staff information -- it can't hurt, and.... you just never know.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
39. I hope you've sent him info on OH Attorney Gen Petro's
vicious action against 4 attorneys who contested OH election. This is such an outrage for him to go after them personally. They were not even willing to listen to the public hearings or investigate one iota of the claims presented. Maybe MM can bring this mis use of power to the attention of msm. They think this will scare away any future questioning of their roles in election fraud.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. WE MUST FLOOD MOORE with info on Diebold and ESS
If moore makes a movie on election fraud, and focuses on voter suppression, Blackwell, Ohio, and minimizes the problems with electronic voting, that would be VERY BAD.

I have seen nothing from him to indicate that he knows enough about electronic voting.

We need to do what we can to make sure the movie focuses on election fraud and not just voter suppression.
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buzzard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. But I'm sure he is willing to be educated. n/t
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Perhaps you would want to do the following:
Here at DU and at VelvetRevolution and "Solar Bus" post a notice entitled "Election Fraud Facts For Michael."

Indicate that if he or one of his assistants will simply contact you directly you will provide them with all the pertinent URLs.

And, ask that anyone who reads the notice and happens to have direct access to Michael to please send him your contact information.

Someone out there in cyberland who reads DU, VR and/or "Solar Bus" must have access to Michael Moore. And, you might also want to try to reach him at his email address (though we all know that that is not a dependable way to ensure he really 'gets it'): mike@michaelmoore.com

I agree that all efforts to provide him comprehensive information of the fraudulent uses and potential fraudulent uses of software and data networks in our election system must be exposed and eradicated.

And, we must stop any and every form of suppression of our fellow citizen's efforts to vote.

Peace.

TBO;24/7
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. That's a good idea. nt
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Yes good idea. As I said, I've sent dozens of articles to his email addy
and BEGGED him to check this out and finally gave up.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. One more thing: I still think he may know and is just laying low and
biding his time. He is so smart and so good at seeing below the surface...so although I have seen nothing to indicate he knows about e-voting issues, he may be looking at a bigger picture that we don't see as far as timing.
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. I'd like to suggest a different strategy
I think he's really flooded with communication already, and that there are more respectful ways to approach this potentially fierce ally.

If we want to send a loud message, how about putting some work into finding a direct way to contact him, and meanwhile drafting a letter explaining the importance of this issue, a few main things we want to be sure he knows, and pointing him to resources where he can find out more. Then posting the letter where people can sign on, perhaps at petitionsite.org if there's no way to do it on velvetrevolution or one of the other election-related sites.

That way by the time we find our direct contact method, we'd probably have hundreds or even thousands of signatures to offer him.

If you're interested in drafting something like this, I'd be happy to review a draft.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. emlev: I think this is a very good idea! We could get thousands of...
...signatures here at DU. I will work on some petition wording. We still have the problem of how to present it to him. But, as you say, maybe someone will come forward.

I am very concerned about his recent quotes in the webchat interview. I don't buy that he's being "cagey." I think he's clueless.

And I think the reason for his being clueless is emotional. Of all the people on this planet for whom Bush's "re-election" would be like a nuclear bomb on their soul and their spirit, Michael Moore is top of the list.

In that state--a state of being nuked, inside, psychologically--the Democratic leadership probably hit him with the crap they gave Kerry about "not enough votes in Ohio to make a difference." He bought their line--no hope--from the same Dem leaders who had permitted this INHERENTLY fraudulent election system be put into place with hardly a word said against it (either from stupidity, or negligence, or War Party collusion).

And so HE, TOO, walked away from the election--even from Ohio, abandoned the voters in his own state! Incredible. The only explanation can be that he was just devastated by the "election" and could not face an "election fraud" battle--couldn't believe it, didn't look into it, doesn't know the facts, and WON'T LOOK AT THE FACTS (which, in my opinion, are overwhelming--Bush DID NOT WIN THIS ELECTION).

Now, there are many Kerry voters in the same condition, emotionally. I know some. They were devastated, and are now in denial. Just can't face it. And, with Michael, it has to be much worse.

What we're dealing with here is an emotional block.
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. I think you're right w/ many people. And so many don't understand
technology well enough to realize that voting problems on one machine = problems on all machines running the same software. nt
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. The first step out of that depression is action
One of the best things we can do is make sure that when we talk to people about what we know, we always talk about what people can do about it, how they can become active.

(Note: Michael Moore is from Michigan, as far as I know.)

I think it's very possible that you're right about M. Moore, and it's not the only possibility.
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4democracy Donating Member (285 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #30
38. This is a great idea, is there a way to do a petition on DU?
We could get thousands in no time right here. If not, I am sure like you suggested,one of the sites would put it up and you could just link to it from here.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. Sore ROTTEN SMELL of WINNERS?
They can't stand the sound of TRUTH in their FACES. That's why they've earned the very appropriate label of "SORE WINNERS!" Think about it, as its very simple, in deed.

They should be rejoicing, laying low, living their lives like winners do - calmly, back to the norm.

Rather, they're having daily breakdowns over Mr. Michael Moore, and us Democrats "BECAUSE" we are NOT going away ANYTIME soon, and we will NOT shut-up about the INJUSTICES we've endured.

Besides, their stupid ;)

:kick:
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wildflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. I've been thinking a lot about the sore winners thing lately.
It may be a case of the more you have, the more you fear losing it.

Alternatively, perhaps they're so used to thinking of themselves in the minority that they will always be on guard, unable to get over the feeling that they're always under attack, even if it's just one person speaking up.

Or maybe it's both of the above.

I don't know. Have you read the book Sore Winners? I've been wondering how it is.

-wildflower
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. They wanted a mandate and it's not playing out. nt
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wildflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. That's true. But it seems they've been like this for years;
And it seems to keep getting worse. I believe the book Sore Winners was written during the first term. I'll have to check it out. Anyone here read it?

-wildflower
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Well, we are still breathing, and that is a problem. nt
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wildflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Interesting article on sore winners (actually an excerpt from the book)
Sore Winners

By John Powers, AlterNet. Posted August 6, 2004.

"Today's Winners don't simply win, they win badly: bragging, sneering, lording it over the Losers, and promoting themselves with a crassness that would leave Duddy Kravitz blushing."

Following is an excerpt from chapter four of John Power's "Sore Winners," published by Doubleday.

snip

In truth, no country always behaves well in victory. Sometimes our Winners have been gentlemanly; at others, vulgar and ruthless. Just ask the foreign basketball players flattened by Charles Barkley at the Barcelona Olympics. During the heyday of Social Darwinism, capitalists worked people to death without the slightest qualm and made no apology for it try to form a union and goons would come after you with clubs. Meanwhile, the rich exulted in their wealth. The delightfully named Mrs. Stuyvesant Fish held a 1904 dinner party in honor of her dog, which turned up in a $15,000 diamond collar at a time when the average annual income was $380. Standard Oil tycoon John D. Rockefeller explained his fortune to a Sunday school class by declaring, "God gave me the money."

The Bush years may be the coarsest period in our nation's history since those days. To my amazement, I sometimes find myself nostalgic for the comparatively modest ill manners of the Reagan years, when the U.S. invaded countries like Grenada and "Junk Bond King" Michael Milken was on the prowl. Today's Winners don't simply win, they win badly: bragging, sneering, lording it over the Losers, and promoting themselves with a crassness that would leave Duddy Kravitz blushing. When Hurricane Isabel knocks out the power in much of Washington, D.C., the Redskins' billionaire owner doesn't just get a huge generator to restore his own electricity but turns on all his lights, so that his house glows like the Vegas strip while his annoyed neighbors sit in the dark.

Practicing the "look out for yourself" philosophy preached in his books, Bill O'Reilly gloats about how many copies he has sold, accuses critics of "envy," and uses his media platforms to pitch his books and "The Spin Stops Here" tchotchkes. Seventeen-year-old hoops phenom LeBron James drives to high school in his $50,000 Hummer, not even bothering to pretend that he's a regular student. And careerist wiseass Dennis Miller, who now embraces George W. Bush on CNBC the better to kick the underdog, justifies a bellicose U.S. foreign policy by saying, "We are real good at what we do and the whole world is going to hell in a handbasket. As that gap gets wider, they'll hate us more and more and more. We are simultaneously the most hated, feared, loved, and admired nation on this planet. In short, we are Frank Sinatra, and you know something, the Chairman didn't get to be the Chairman lying down for punks outside the Fontainbleu." On the worst day of his life, Ol' Blue Eyes, who grew up poor in Hoboken, was more idealistic about America than that.

Such Bad Winners aren't simply found in the media. We encounter them every day, from the workplace where higher-ups treat employees like "the help" to the service industries where "the help" is treated as something even lower: I recently watched an Armani-besuited woman park her Mercedes SUV in the middle of a busy street near a restaurant, dodge through traffic, and toss the keys to the busy valet parker, snapping, "I don't have time to wait for you." Granted, this was in Beverly Hills, but once such behavior was for spoiled teens. Now you find such thuggishness everywhere. It's certainly out front in business, whose leaders pride themselves on their brutality, as Donald ("You're fired") Trump made clear while pitching the stretch-limo fantasy The Apprentice: "I think there's a whole beautiful picture to be painted about business, American business, how beautiful it is but also how vicious and tough it is. The beauty is the success, the end result. You meet some wonderful people, but you also meet some treacherous, disgusting people that are worse than any snake in the jungle."

...

much more at

http://www.alternet.org/election04/19466/
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. Not "the more you win"...
The more you steal, the more you fear losing it.

Remember Treasure of the Siera Madre?

Smell the fear. :evilgrin:
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cenflrd Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. What happened to SICKO???
I know he wasn't getting much cooperation, but what happened?
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Who is Sicko?
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. That's the name of the pharmaceutical industry film he is making. nt
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. That's awesome. I'm glad to see he's on the case.
If anyone can blow the lid off the phony election, it would be him.
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
26. Moore should do a film about the right wing media propoganda machine
IMHO. The recent "outing" of the so-called journalists who were paid Bush advertisers could find a place in that film too.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. right there's so much dirt for Michael Moore to expose...
would love to see a good look at the right wing propaganda machine through his "lens."

I guess he's got his hands full...
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mbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
27. There's a reason why pugs are against Education because
they need non-thinkers to support them and bully the opposition daily. Thinking would certainly put the brakes on their plans. It's not accidental that the south (their base) has the worst educational programs in the country.
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deacon2 Donating Member (396 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Keep 'em on the Soma
Where would the GOP overlords be without the Deltas? Let 'em breed, feed the factory line. If they break, there's always more where they came from.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
31. Yeah, our very own Gestapo
just up to their usual tactics!

You Rawk, Michael!

I bet if you do a doc on voter fraud..it will be bigger than "F9/11"!
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RockStar Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
36. kick
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