Ohio Numbers - 90,000 more VOTES than VOTERS?

[batchdem04]

(I found this on another thread on DU, but I can't find it anymore.)

http://pages.ivillage.com/americans4america/id20.html

Could these be the provisional ballots?

[alevensalor]

1. Holy crap!

This can't stand. We can't allow this!

~A!

[ET Awful]

2. SheeeeeIt!

Here's to hoping that we can get someone to actually take some friggin' notice.

[Carolab]

3. No BECAUSE

Bev Harris JUST said on Democracy Now that "they don't know the number of the provisional ballots".

This is ALSO true in Florida. THEY DIDN'T KEEP TRACK.

And, in Florida, they are THROWING THEM OUT, which is ILLEGAL.

[LisaL]

6. Throwing them out by a ton!

:nuke:
According to election oficials, they threw out a ton of ballots!!!!!!!

[L84TEA]

4. nothing is there ???

is the link right???

[L84TEA]

8. never mind,.

I found it thanks!

[shraby]

12. Kick this thread

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[YellowDoginthehouse]

46. That's ONLY in Cuyahoga County!!!!

Just one county!

[Anarcho-Socialist]

5. I thought provisionals haven't been counted yet n/t

[LisaL]

9. In OH they haven't been counted yet.

Count starts on Nov 11 according to some strange OH Law.
In Florida, the election oficials said they threw out a ton of provisional ballots.

[progressivebydesign]

28. Then this makes no sense.. right?

I had assumed that it was provisional ballots that made the votes go over the 100% of registered voters level. Now.. I don't know WHAT to think!

[shelley806]

59. Machine generated votes...padding ballots electronically without a

paper trace!

[wildflowergardener]

31. Unique Id on provisional ballots in Missouri.

Hi. Something occurred to me. I was an election worker in Missouri, and at least here, there is a unique number on each provisional ballot, and a number the people could call to find out whether there's was counted. If other states did this, it should be possible to track which people's ballots were discarded.

Meg

[newyawker99]

61. Hi mbergen!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[wiggs]

7. Doesn't make sense. Pallast says the opposite.

Greg Pallast was on AAR this morning, saying that all the provisional ballots (100's of thousands) and many spoiled ballots (100,000) have not yet been counted. And that since these ballots are mainly from democratic areas, they could change the election if counted. They are not being counted, so it seems to me that it would be unlikely that the number of votes is, so far, more than the number of voters.

If this is true, then if the provisionals are counted the number of votes would VASTLY EXCEED the number of voters. This would be obviously fraudulent.

[merh]

10. Text from link...

Cuyahoga County Precincts

Each precinct in Cuyahoga County, Ohio
Highlighted areas represent 90% (very VERY unlikely) and higher (up to 1160.78%) voter TURN-OUT! 29 are above 100%
Calculated from data on county page - http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/currentresults1.htm

(Ballots Cast/Registered Voters) * 100 = % turn out.
Ballots Cast SHOULD NEVER be more than Registered, thus % should NEVER be higher than 100%

This amounts to 93,136 EXTRA votes beyond 100% in those precincts! This is just for ONE county!

No further evidence needed - a recount MUST be done - and possibly another national election using ONLY paper ballots, hand counts, and observers making sure all counts are valid. I don't trust these computers AT ALL! We should have the UN observe!


http://pages.ivillage.com/americans4america/id20.html

[LisaL]

15. Is that for real?

It's just so hard to beleive it's for real.
More votes than actual registered voters?
:wtf:

[NOWMDNOGWB]

11. it also seems % below what they should be in city of cleveland

Cleveland was overwhelming for KERRY, just glancing over no.s saturday posted here it could of been close to 85-90% Kerry there. The other counties are bush counties where it's more voters than reg. voters. If this is true that could very well more than make up the difference.

[Chimpanzee]

18. Does anyone know how to email this to Olbermann?

He seems to give a small rat's ass about this at least.

[LisaL]

21. YES. Cuahoga is the most democratic county in OH.

Without Cuahoga, Kerry wouldn't even come close.
So, what is going on?
Are those numbers for real?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[NOWMDNOGWB]

25. spreadsheet cuyahoga

http://rncmoblog.com/kerry/cuyahoga.xls

[Sparkly]

34. I do not understand these numbers

My head's spinning from these numbers...

I see you drew your spreadsheet from this:

http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/history/2004/110204_GE_Canvass.TXT

But I don't know what these numbers mean. I'm scrolling around but can't find the presidential vote results.

Do the numbers match this:

http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/currentresults1.htm#0531

This one does seem to show more votes than voters.

[Sparkly]

37. Nevermind, found the pres. results

The voter turnout percentages are in a different set of columns and do show the overages cited by the original poster's link.

[batchdem04]

43. based on the this spreadsheet

are the numbers legit?

because if you sum all the Pres votes, you get 652,381...I have no idea what is going on anymore :(

[Sparkly]

49. That's correct from the page the spreadsheet's supposed to be based on

http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/history/2004/110204_GE_Canvass.TXT

But 665,334 is what's on the page the original link is based on:
http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/currentresults1.htm

Go figure! :crazy:

[L84TEA]

13. DAMN ... I wonder if I should be diggin in Iowa...

All this crap makes me wonder if there was cheating in Iowa, not that it would decide the election... but, it is all tooo creepie!

[merh]

17. Yes, please check Iowa

They stole Iowa, Ohio, Florida and New Mexico

[glitch]

20. I think there was skimming and padding in every state with electronic

count (IOW all of them). In heavily dem precincts some votes were skimmed from Kerry to pad * numbers, even though Kerry won.
Why bother? to make the popular vote win look legitimate and imply a mandate.

[shelley806]

58. This is so disgusting I can't stand it!!!! n/t

[batchdem04]

14. The last update was 11/03 at 2AM!

So they can't be counting provisional ballots.

ALSO LOOK AT THIS :

From the Cuyahoga website:
PRESIDENT AND VICE-PRESIDENT
Vote for 1 (With 1458 of 1458 precincts counted)

MICHAEL BADNARIK/RICHARD V. CAMPAGNA
1828 0.28%
GEORGE W. BUSH/DICK CHENEY
215624 33.05%
JOHN F. KERRY/JOHN EDWARDS
433262 66.41%
CANDIDATE DISQUALIFIED
0 0.00%
MICHAEL A. PEROUTKA/CHUCK BALDWIN
1667 0.26%

The total votes : 652,381

From the Ohio website(http://election.sos.state.oh.us/results/RaceDetail.aspx?race=PP):

Cuyahoga
Precincts Reporting: 100.00% 652,381

The numbers match!

[LisaL]

16. Exactly, OH can't start counting provisional ballots until Nov 11

It's the law in OH.

[dogtag]

24. I've yet to see a rationalization for the eleven day rule.

Does anyone know what it is?

[txindy]

56. Doesn't make any sense, does it?

I would think counting all of the ballots during this period would make the job easier. Count them as they come in and stop counting newly-arrived ballots at the deadline. Continue to count until finished. What am I missing? Why put if off until the 11th? Why waste all these days?

[TorchTheWitch]

67. The eleven day rule

I believe that the purpose of having the rule that the provisional ballots can't be counted toward the election count is so there is sufficient time to check each one and determine if it is a valid ballot. Most of the time, apparently, the ballot is ok after checking. They need to make sure that each person who cast a provisional ballot is registered to vote in that state/county (and not registered in another as well) - if registration is required - and that person voted only once. These ballots need to be checked against registration rolls to make sure that a person is only casting one vote. After the eleven days passes, then they are allowed to add the valid provisional ballots to the election count.

I think the eleven day rule is a good thing as then there can be no pressure to be incomplete or lazy in the checking in order to rush the provisional ballots (some of which aren't going to be valid ballots) into the election count.

On another note: there seems to be confusion of the definition of the word "count" when discussing the provisional ballots. There is a "count" of the provitionals (how many provisionals there are, valid or otherwise) and the "count" of the provitionals (adding the valid ones to the election count).

[shraby]

19. No wonder they didn't want provisionals counted

it will make the tallies even higher, plus there are absentees to count.

[shraby]

23. Get this out to

John Conyers, Jr. / Jerrold Nadler / Robert Wexler and anyone else you can think of.

This reflects only ONE county.

[nolabels]

32. I couldn't believe they would be that stupid to think nobody would notice

Could this be? :shrug:

[Sparkly]

22. Is there a place where the results are listed by precinct?

I'd like to see how the individual places in Cuyahoga supposedly voted where the turnout was over 100%.

[karlrschneider]

26. Good grief

:eyes:
:kick:

[progressivebydesign]

27. Can you register AT the polls in Ohio??

This would make sense if they required that many people to file provisionals, then those numbers would be slightly conceivable. Is Ohio one of those places where you can register AT the polls? It is very possible to have more votes than people registered in that county ONLY if.. you could register there, at the poll, and were not included in the registered voter numbers. But.. THAT MANY? And that would assume a 100% turnout of registered voters in those precincts... plus the additional votes. That looks very, very wrong.

But.. the democratic, corporate, leadership wants us to stop whining and get with the program. Right.

[Bush was AWOL]

29. NOPE!

You have to be registered a month before the election. October 4th is the last day to get registered to vote in the state of Ohio.

[Kukesa]

30. No, in Ohio you must have registered by completing a

voter registration form and mailing it to the BOE.

Remember all that mess with Kenneth Blackwell and his request that all registrations be on a certain weight paper???

[shraby]

33. I think that because Bush was losing,

they had to do a hurry up in making up the votes needed to put him ahead and got sloppy about it.

One more thought added. Rove may not have considered all the voting information going on line this time and would be accessible to anyone with a computer. He screwed up.

[txindy]

55. My thoughts, as well

They over-reached. They added a little here and a little there so many times that they lost sight of how it would look overall. They got sloppy. Too bad. :evilgrin:

[shelley806]

60. And this in part explains why the numbers shot up all of a sudden

dramatically for B*. The reporters were stunned! This is when they started changing the exit polls!!

[NOWMDNOGWB]

35. spreadsheet nos. above don't match

no.s posted here saturday...listed above on this post,don't seem to have an overage in bay village...can't really look into now at work

[Sparkly]

36. I see overages here

I think there are overages here:
http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/currentresults1.htm#0531

The source for that spreadsheet is a VERY dense page, but I did find overages there, as well.

TOTAL PERCENT
10 = VOTER TURNOUT BAY VILLAGE 136.13
15 = VOTER TURNOUT BEACHWOOD 140.19
16 = VOTER TURNOUT BEDFORD 145.49

These are percentages. (I scrolled maybe 1/5 down the page and found this.)

[NOWMDNOGWB]

45. hope your right

just quickly dug those up from a saturday post to look at kerry's rate in cleveland,and glanced at the bay nos. and it didn't look right.

[Chili]

38. at least 3 of those municipalities are heavy Kerry areas...

...the yellow/highlighted ones. Bedford Hts without a doubt went heavy for Kerry, as did Warrensville Hts - they are both predominantly black middle-class suburbs, I used to live in both of them. Beachwood & University Hts probably also heavy Kerry areas, culturally mixed with black, white, and Jewish population. All fraud should be exposed, but this worries me a little, LOL. However... WHERE BETTER to pad Bush votes than in heavy Kerry neighborhoods?

The others, though - Bay Village, Strongsville, Middleburg Hts... probably Bush blowout areas.

But... Moreland Hills went for Kerry?? Wow! Very affluent suburb!

(just rambling here, sorry)

[Sparkly]

42. I don't know the difference between "Bedford" and "Bedford Hts" but

Both did go big for Kerry (as did Cuyahoga Cty overall) but...

Bedford, where there was an overage, included a few results that look different from all the others. Kerry won sometimes 2-1 or even 3-1 or more; but in "Bedford 6-B" it was close, 259-208. Don't know if that means anything or if it's a very different neighborhood from the rest of Bedford.

Similar with Beachwood: huge leads for Kerry except "Beachwood B" and "Beachwood G" where it was alot closer.

What it tells me is that we need to be looking in counties that went for Bush* as well as those for Kerry and check for other anomalies in both turnout and vote results.

[Chili]

62. no, there is a difference between Bedford and Bedford Hts

Bedford Hts has apartment complexes in the city limits, a number of them, predominently black, in fact, giving it a higher minority population. Bedford is just about exclusively single-family homes, now more than 50% white, though that number has probably been decreasing over the years; 25+ years ago, when I attended Bedford HS (LOL), Bedford was something like 95% white or more. So things are changing, but, traditionally, Bedford did have a sorta "redneck" aspect to some parts of the population. I know, I went to school with them, and now they're all grown up, LOL. Having said that, I haven't looked at population breakdown for that part of Cuy. County, but I think that's about right.

Beachwood is an affluent neighborhood in some parts, and very affluent in others. So not surprising that different wards would vote differently. It's like Shaker Hts, in many ways; middle class in some areas, extremely wealthy in others.

EDIT, just to be careful, I checked the stats: Bedford Hts has a black population of 67%; Bedford is 79% white. Race isn't necessarily the end-all in thinking who should vote where, but it is a factor.

http://www.thehousingcenter.org/Analysis%20of%20the%20Lending%20Patterns%20in%20Southeast%20Suburbs.pdf

[batchdem04]

39. These numbers are so wacky

Look at this, Bay Village for example:

REGISTERED VOTERS - BAY VILLAGE
13710
REGISTERED VOTERS - BYVL WD1
3602
REGISTERED VOTERS - BYVL WD2
3381
REGISTERED VOTERS - BYVL WD3
3122
REGISTERED VOTERS - BYVL WD4
3605

Ok, so if you add up 3602+3381+3122+3605 = 13,710. So it matches.

Now, look at ballots cast:

BALLOTS CAST BAY VILLAGE
18663
BALLOTS CAST BYVL WD1
2233
BALLOTS CAST BYVL WD2
2164
BALLOTS CAST BYVL WD3
2030
BALLOTS CAST BYVL WD4
2288

2233+2164+2030+2288 = 8715, which obviously doesn't equal 18,663.

Where are they getting the extra 9948???

[Sparkly]

44. Here's the breakdown

01 02 03 04 05
------------------------------
0111 BAY VILLAGE 1-A 0 237 191 0 0
0112 BAY VILLAGE 1-B 0 221 224 0 0
0113 BAY VILLAGE 1-C 0 203 210 0 1
0114 BAY VILLAGE 1-D 1 244 201 0 1
0115 BAY VILLAGE 1-E 1 235 238 0 0
0121 BAY VILLAGE 2-A 1 253 208 0 1
0122 BAY VILLAGE 2-B 1 203 229 0 0
0123 BAY VILLAGE 2-C 4 214 182 0 0
0124 BAY VILLAGE 2-D 0 197 211 0 2
0125 BAY VILLAGE 2-E 2 205 230 0 1
0131 BAY VILLAGE 3-A 0 237 170 0 1
0132 BAY VILLAGE 3-B 2 201 170 0 0
0133 BAY VILLAGE 3-C 0 265 154 0 0
0134 BAY VILLAGE 3-D 1 240 155 0 0
0135 BAY VILLAGE 3-E 0 253 168 0 0
0141 BAY VILLAGE 4-A 0 234 143 0 0
0142 BAY VILLAGE 4-B 0 215 156 0 1
0143 BAY VILLAGE 4-C 0 250 156 0 0
0144 BAY VILLAGE 4-D 1 219 189 0 0
0145 BAY VILLAGE 4-E 0 192 112 0 0
0146 BAY VILLAGE 4-F 2 245 155 0 0

Number columns following the identifying number-letter:
01 = Badnarik
02 = B/C
03 = K/E
04 = Candidate disqualified
05 = Peroutka

[RememberTheCoup]

40. Maybe this should be posted in GD as well, batchdem. (nt)

[idiosyncratic]

41. Unbelievable . . .

:kick:

[johnnie]

47. Being from this area

I can tell you that almost all the ones with over 100% are upper class neighborhoods.

[robbedvoter]

48. It was the hermaphrodites! Kerry was leading with men, women

Who knew there were 90.000 hermaphrodites in Ohio?

here's an explanation:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3987237.stm

Early exit polls quoted by media seemed to give Mr Kerry the edge, but colleagues said Mr Rove indicated right away that they did not tally with his information.

He used his own data to put Ohio and Florida in the Bush column - bringing cheers from the president and his family when he went into the Roosevelt Room and told them

[Mister K]

50. I hate to rain on this parade

But it looks like only the sub-totals by Precinct are off. If you take a look at the individual results and sum them up, it equals the amount reported to the media origanizations. This also matches the amounts in the spreadsheet.

Now, this may prove something else like the data has been modified in some way.

[Iceburg]

51. Could Ohio Voters vote in any precinct within their county?

If so that might explain why the county total is correct but not the precinct level.

[shraby]

52. They had to vote on a provisional ballot

if they were in the wrong precinct. There was a big stink about it.

[shelley806]

53. Look at what was reported for Florida, in the following link; same thing

happened. I don't think it's a mistake. Call it intentional computerized vote stacking, cheating, fraud....you pick it!

IF YOU READ NOTHING ELSE TODAY, PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING:

BTW: I've only included the first paragraph and none of the tables and graphs.

http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~adamsb6/elections/


Examination of the Florida Elections


New: Florida is reporting more votes in the presidential election than it is reporting citizens that turned out to vote. Adding all the presidential race votes reported by the Florida Department of State here yields a total of 7,588,422 votes. The Florida Department of State reports here that voter turnout totalled only 7,350,900. That's a difference of 237,522. 3.1% of Florida's presidential votes were in excess of the number of voters in the election. 380,952 votes separate the President and John Kerry in Florida.
If we disregard the votes cast on the Model 100s and the Optech 3P Eagles, the difference between Bush and Kerry drops to 124,514. The votes cast on the Model 100s and the Optech 3P Eagles in conjunction with votes that cannot be tied to voters may have elected George W. Bush.
The 13 counties that report more votes than voters delivered 39.4% of the votes cast in Florida. These are the 13 counties:

[RememberTheCoup]

54. Has anyone e-mailed Cuyahoga BOE? Here is the e-mail address...

[email protected]

If anyone gets a response, please post it here.

[Helga Scow Stern]

57. Response from Cincinnatti Enquirer

re: "Where Is The Media???" articles I sent.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x30344#30452

Dan Sewell was decent enough to e-mail back right away to say: Thanks for writing. We are continuing to pursue local developments.
--Dan Sewell

That is better than silence!

I will e-mail him this thread now.

[undercover_brother]

63. Absentee ballets. Rove pushed them hard. Easy to get multiple votes.

People can get multiple absentee ballets from different voting areas. Cast one in that county. Now cast one in the other county. Rove was pushing these very hard knowing full well what many people in his party would do with them.

[robbedvoter]

64. kick!

[Rex_Goodheart]

65. I weep for this country. This is beyond insane.

[genius]

66. I thought that was Florida. There are other numbers for Ohio.

[stealyourface]

68. kick