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Another OHIO VOTE FRAUD article. This Story... Will Make Your "Toes Curl"

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pbartch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:16 PM
Original message
Another OHIO VOTE FRAUD article. This Story... Will Make Your "Toes Curl"
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050...

Purging of rolls, confusion anger voters
41% of Nov. 2 provisional ballots axed in Lucas County

By FRITZ WENZEL
BLADE POLITICAL WRITER

Ralph and Barbara George are lifelong Democrats who first registered to vote for John F. Kennedy in 1960 and have lived in the same East Toledo house for 44 years. They called the Lucas County Board of Elections early last year to make sure they still were registered to vote.

Informed that they were, they went on with life, including helping their son, just home from military service, to purchase a new home. Then, last fall, they applied for absentee ballots.

It was then that they were surprised to discover - too late to do anything about it - that they were somehow no longer registered and wouldn't be allowed to vote in the general election.

At the last minute, they learned that they could cast provisional ballots, so they hustled down to their polling place and did so.
It was a waste of time. Their votes were thrown out.

"Nothing surprises me anymore," said Mrs. George when she discovered last week their votes were fruitless.

"My God. We are 66 years old. We registered when we first turned 21. We have lived in this same house for 44 years, and I can't vote. It just seems ridiculous that you have to keep re-registering if you don't vote," she said. "It just turned into plain, absolute frustration."

An examination of elections records showed that, because of inactivity in recent elections, they were purged from voter rolls in August, less than three months before the presidential election.

They weren't alone. Of the 3,122 provisional ballots from the Nov. 2 general election that were rejected in Lucas County, 64 percent were bounced because the voter was not registered. Of those, 405 had been registered until they were purged from the county election rolls in August, just months before the presidential election.

<snip>

Purges are mandated by federal voter registration law, confirmed Carlo LoParo, a spokesman for Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell. However, he said, counties have flexibility in deciding whether to purge voters before or after elections. Ms. Hicks-Hudson said she did not recall why Lucas County decided to purge before the election.

<snip>

"We were in the right building. We were in the wrong lines," said Brandi Stenson, who arrived at the polls at St. Elizabeth Seton School in Toledo's Ward 4 on Election Day with her brother and mother. All three were registered voters, records on file with the county elections board show, but they ran into trouble when they reached the front of the line at the polls.

"They looked in the book, and none of our names was there," Ms. Stenson said.

Though there were three precincts voting in the same room at the school, she said poll workers never looked up their address or offered to help them find the right line.

A fourth member of the family, Brittany, had voted earlier in the day and ended up in the correct precinct line, where poll workers found her name in the poll book of registered voters.

"She voted earlier," Ms. Stenson said of her sister. "She was the one who told us we were in the wrong line. We didn't know until we got home. She saw our names in the book."

She blames poll workers.

"I just feel like they didn't know what they were doing. They wanted us to hurry up, because I was asking questions, my mom was asking questions," she said. "They were trying to rush us out."

<snip>

The Stensons were not alone. They were among 40 of the 43 provisional voters from Precinct 4N who were in the right room, but the wrong line, on Election Day. All of their votes were rejected. In all, 67 provisional ballots were cast in Precinct 4N - but 50 of them were rejected for one reason or another.

"It's not right," said Brittany Stenson.

Contact Fritz Wenzel at: fritz@theblade.com or 419-724-6134.



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Pegleg Thd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sounds like they are living
in Nazi Germany in 1938!!!
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Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. They are...
...as are we all (well, I'm next door in Canada, but it's still pretty damn scary).
:mad:
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. Good God...
And no one is stopping these tactics in Ohio or any place else for that matter. How long will we stand for this?
:mad:
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Lurker321 Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. The "tactics" you are decrying
apparently are following the federal law in the matter. The couple in question did not vote in the previous two elections. The federal law apparently requires that their names be purged from the rolls, after sending them a notice:

"They were removed because of "their failure to vote in two prior federal elections," Ms. Hicks-Hudson said. "They received a notice that they were on the inactive list and subject to removal. We are required to do it, under a federal law. It's a process we do to make the rolls more accurate."

I can see why there would be outrage if this was done arbitrarily. It wasn't. The county officials followed a federal law. If they did not, they could be punished for disobeying the law.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Read the article again, Lurker....it was up to the counties to decide.
And guess what? They decided to purge in AUGUST! And didn't bother to notify anyone, either in newspapers or by mail.

I would like to see how many REPUBLICANS were purged. I think this needs further investigation.

:kick: :kick: :kick:
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Lurker321 Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. The article says they notified -
"They were removed because of "their failure to vote in two prior federal elections," Ms. Hicks-Hudson said. "They received a notice that they were on the inactive list and subject to removal. We are required to do it, under a federal law."

How many Republicans were purged - according to the article anyone who has not voted in the last two federal elections was purged from the rolls. I don't see any checks for party affiliation mentioned. I would presume that not voting in the last two federal elections is not a Democratic-only thing.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Problem with that is that they called and asked if they were registered...
Would it had been a good time at the initial contacting for them to be told of the inactive status so they could make arrangements to re-register?

A person calling to check on the status is an interested voter, if it was due to be purged, they should have be told so at the inital contact?

:grr:
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SaveAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. One thing wrong here...
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 03:46 PM by SaveAmerica
The only problem I see with your argument is that Ms. Hicks-Hudson is not with the couple when they check their mail so I'd like to know how she knows "they received a notice that they were on the inactive list". This doesn't jive with a couple so intent on making their vote count that they called in at the beginning of the year to make sure they're on there. If they received a notice, I'm thinking they would have done something about it.
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Lurker321 Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I just quoted the article -
the county officials according to the article insist that they sent the notices (at least).

What I was pointing out was that the outrage (and in one post here an accusation of being like "Nazi Germany") is directed at county officials who were following the federal law. If you don't like the law, work to change it, don't explode at people who are required to follow it.
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mother earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. The very same thing happened to both my husband & I.
With one exception, I found out early enough to do something about it, we did not have to use provisional ballots. We are reg. dems. & this is why I believe it was done nationwide. I asked how this possibly could have happened, we voted in every election. It was attributed to some weird computer glitch. Sound familiar? We are from Mass. THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT WIDESPREAD FRAUD OCCURRED IN ALL STATES.
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mother earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I never would have checked on our registrations if it hadn't been
for Michael Moore urging people to do so as a precaution. This is how they accomplished a lot, no one can tell me it was won fair and square.
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tex-wyo-dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. This needs to be sent to Conyers (n/t)
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pbartch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. got an email address for Rep Conyers? I will send him a copy
of the article.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yeah, me too
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 01:56 PM by ohio_liberal
I've lived in the same city most of my life, lived at the same address for 10 years, and have been registered for 19 years. My name was taken off the list of registered voters this year for no apparent reason. If I hadn't called on the last day of registration to make sure everything was OK I wouldn't have been able to vote.

On edit:

I've also never failed to vote in an election so no one at the county BOE had that reason to purge me from the list of registered voters.
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Lurker321 Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Now THAT is outrageous,
but the article's example is not. The couple in question (at least according to the article) did not vote in the last two federal elections and the BOE had to remove them from the rolls according to law.
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rdmccur Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. Perhaps Choicepoint or Datamax
helped with this purging.
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TruthBeTold22 Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. Purging Rolls
The purging of rolls and the decision of which provisional votes were or weren't to be counted is a decision made by the County BOE...using standards set out by Blackwell.

However, the decision in each case/ballot was made by the Lucas County BOE...2 Dems and 2 Repugs...in a highly Dem County.

This dog doesn't bark.
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Blue Diadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Problems within at Lucas County
Lucas County BOE has had several resignations, one was fired, largely due to issues within the BOE. They claimed the problem was about 1 particular vote, but I highly doubt a mistake about 1 vote would create the havoc that's gone on there.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. If you have been reading the research, you'd know better:
Both Dems AND repugs appointed to Boards of Elections are APPOINTED by Blackwell. I'm sure blackwell was able to find two Zell Miller Democrats to appoint to the boards of elections....in every county.

Just because they're registered as Dems, doesn't mean they ARE Dems. This is an EXCEPTIONALLY EASY thing to arrange for someone who is Republican Campaign Chairman like Blackwell is.

Get a clue!

:kick: :kick: :kick:
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Lurker321 Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. That is plainly not true -
the BOE Democrats are selected by the Democratic Party county executive committee and cannot be rejected by Blackwell except if he can show incompetency of the selectee:

See http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:Zty4lXUBqUAJ:www.s...

Relevant portion:

Boards of elections are bi-partisan boards. Two members of a four member county board are appointed in each even numbered year. One appointment is from the political party which cast the highest number of votes for the office of governor at the most recent regular state election. The other is from the political party which cast the next highest number of votes. See Ohio Rev. Code Ann 3501.06 (Baldwin Supp. 1998).


Members of boards of elections are appointed by the secretary of state. The county executive committee of the major political party entitled to the appointment makes and files a recommendation with the secretary of state for the appointment. The secretary of state is required by law to appoint the elector recommended by the county executive committee, unless the secretary of state believes that the elector would not be a competent member of the board of elections. See Ohio Rev. Code Ann. 3501.05, 3501.06 (Baldwin Supp.1998) 3501.07 (Baldwin 1995).
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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Funny, Blackwell has NEVER turned down any candidate from the Dems.
So I guess your conspiracy there must be extended to the people who pick the candidates to send to him. How rotten is the tree of Dems in Ohio and how far will you go to paint these hard working people as DINOs just to keep your tinfoil shiny?
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TruthBeTold22 Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #22
33. Amen
Right On!
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LiberalHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. A Dem on the BOE in Lucas County is true blue....
Paula Ross used to be head of the county's Democratic Party. She's very active in Dem politics and would not be doing Blackwell's bidding.
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TruthBeTold22 Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
32. Are you From Ohio and Ever worked for a County?
I have...I was a county administrator and know how these things are organized. Lurker(whose post followed yours) is absolutely correct.

In fact, the Director of the Sandusky County BOE is the Chairman of the Democratic party in that County....some Zell Miller Democrat!
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. The Chairman of the Democratic Party in N.C. is a REPUBLICAN
Yes, she's registered as a Dem. Yes, she shows up at all the meetings. But, yes, she is a REPUBLICAN.

I worked in an office next to her for 9 years. I know the woman. And she was moved up in the Democratic party by very powerful forces INTENTIONALLY. Most of the people who have watched her head the party for all these years don't have a clue who she REALLY is: they just remain constantly frustrated that they can never get signs, stickers, organization, etc., going in proper time before and during an election. Well, DUH!!!

The KEY to this whole thing is that KENNETH BLACKWELL APPOINTS the members of boards of elections in each of Ohio's 88 counties.

The county I lived in previously in North Carolina had a REPUBLICAN who was head of the County Democratic Party. Yes, he was registered as a Dem. Yes, he showed up at all the Dem meetings. But the guy was a CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN.

Until the grassroots activists in this country get busy and take interest again in our local boards, we're going to continue to have DINOs running the party at all levels.

I stand by what I said. KENNETH BLACKWELL APPOINTS THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARDS OF ELECTIONS....both the republican members and the democratic members.

:kick: :kick: :kick:
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Lurker321 Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. It's amazing. So you completely ignore the relevant
law and insist on your falsehoods.

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:Zty4lXUBqUAJ:www.s...

Relevant portion:

Boards of elections are bi-partisan boards. Two members of a four member county board are appointed in each even numbered year. One appointment is from the political party which cast the highest number of votes for the office of governor at the most recent regular state election. The other is from the political party which cast the next highest number of votes. See Ohio Rev. Code Ann 3501.06 (Baldwin Supp. 1998).


Members of boards of elections are appointed by the secretary of state. The county executive committee of the major political party entitled to the appointment makes and files a recommendation with the secretary of state for the appointment. The secretary of state is required by law to appoint the elector recommended by the county executive committee, unless the secretary of state believes that the elector would not be a competent member of the board of elections. See Ohio Rev. Code Ann. 3501.05, 3501.06 (Baldwin Supp.1998) 3501.07 (Baldwin 1995).
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Maybe YOU'RE the one ignoring the relevant portion...
The secretary of state is required by law to appoint the elector recommended by the county executive committee, unless the secretary of state believes that the elector would not be a competent member of the board of elections.

Looking at how many Democratic voting areas WITHHELD voting machines from Dem and minority precincts, I'd say the evidence speaks for itself.

:kick: :kick: :kick:
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. If this violated their County Laws...there's a big lawsuit there...but,
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 03:48 PM by KoKo01
if their county allows this, there's no case. Unless they can prove that they went down and asked if they were still registered and were told they were...it becomes "he said/she said."

Here's hoping that this was illegal and if it was done in other precincts and counties it sure sounds like it's in violation of something, perhaps even the HAVA Act which says you can't be denied a provisional.. But...what if you vote on a provisional and it's thrown out like the couple in this article. Aren't their rights being violated?

Have to hope that someone was too cocky and violated the election laws somewhere in this...
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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Purges are mandated by federal voter registration law
A simple solution is to VOTE! You don't get purged unless you don't vote for 8 years.

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Blue Diadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I'm curious
is it 8 or is it 4 if there are elections for senate? I have looked for this answer online and couldn't find it. The FEC handles Senate races too, so wouldn't it also be considered a federal election?
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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Here is the law in Ohio....
In Ohio, once a person has registered to vote, the person is not required to register again unless his or her registration has been cancelled. 3 The registration may be cancelled for the following reasons: 4

the voter requests that his or her registration be cancelled;
the voter dies;
the voter is convicted of a felony 5;
the voter is ruled incompetent to vote;
the voter changes his or her residence to a new county and fails to respond to a confirmation notice sent by the board of elections or otherwise to update his or her registration and does not vote in any election during the period of two federal elections after the mailing of the notice 6; or
the voter has not voted for four years, receives a confirmation notice, and then fails to either:
respond to the notice and vote once during the following four consecutive years, or
update the registration and vote at least once during the following four consecutive years.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. ahhhh...here's where they got those folks. If you didn't vote since 2000
where the Supremes Annointed Chimp...you are purged from the rolls. In my mind...lots of folks didn't vote since 2000 because they were so disgusted...or they only vote in the Presidential Elections which only occur every four years... So...according to what you posted what was done was legal..

..the voter has not voted for four years, receives a confirmation notice, and then fails to either:
respond to the notice and vote once during the following four consecutive years, or
update the registration and vote at least once during the following four consecutive years.

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Lurker321 Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. According to the law wording that you quoted
you can only get purged if you didn't vote since 1996 - including 1996.
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TruthBeTold22 Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
31. There are no County voting Laws
In Ohio all voting laws are state laws...Counties are just required to follow them.
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
26. Colorado's local news reported the same type of thing going on here
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 05:19 PM by bush_is_wacko
on election night. How could poll workers be so bad and why don't voters make more of a fuss? I have had bad poll workers mistate things to me. I just tell them what I know and they will usually back right down. I have to admit, I have a way about me that says don't "F" with me, but I find it appalling that poll workers try to pass off their knowledge and citizens buy it. This is one of the things that needs to be told to all voters. Demand your right to vote! If you let them (poll workers) get away with doing nothing they will. In some cases it isn't even their fault. I don't think poll workers are given enough information regarding the job they have chosen to perform.
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thanatonautos Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
28. We need a national system of voter registration for federal elections
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 05:54 PM by thanatonautos
basically a list of names, which is constantly and
actively maintained by the federal government.

This would eliminate many potential abuses of
the voter registration system from federal elections,
such as overly enthusiastic purging of the rolls
by state and local officials for whatever reasons
they may choose to give, whether the reasons are
technically legal or not.

There are certainly serious privacy and civil rights
concerns associated with creating and maintaining such
a list. The law could be crafted, however, so as to
restrict the use of the federal list to electoral
purposes.

I think that the benefits might well outweigh the costs.
For people who do not wish to allow their information to
be available even to political parties and candidates,
an exception could be crafted, so that their names could
be kept on a private sublist.

It could be something along the lines of the current
Canadian system.

National Register of Electors

The former Canadian system was to go house to house
and gather up the names of all eligible voters before
each federal election. If you wanted to remove a voter
from the list, you had to make an affirmative challenge.

Around 1990, it was decided that this approach was too
costly, and that computer technology would allow
for a national list to be premanently maintained at
less cost.

Eligibility requirements are very inclusive under
the Canadian system ... for example, prisoners serving
terms longer than 2 years are all eligible to vote.

Homeless persons can also register and vote;
all they have to do is provide proof of identity,
and give a temporary address ... a shelter is
sufficient.

In my view, something like this system could be
a very useful approach for the US to implement.

Voting and voter registration should be as inclusive
a process as possible.
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. If they can't keep their terrorist watch lists orderly...

What makes you think the feds wouldn't screw this up as well?

Not that I don't think an exchange of registration data between the states might help ease concerns about people voting multiple times in different states, but seriously, wouldn't such a system in the hands of the administration be more of an opportunity for mischeif than a way to address the problem?

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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
34. Here's the part that really disturbs me:
Overall, two out of every three of the 130 provisional ballots cast at the three precincts at St. Elizabeth Seton were rejected. The North Toledo precincts serve predominantly African-American neighborhoods which went overwhelmingly for Democrat John Kerry in the race for President.


Now, surely, that little fact didn't escape anyone's attention, did it?



:mad:
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Not mine.
I'm still waiting for the reports of the same types of things in heavily republican precincts. Tap, tap, tap....
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
39. Damn, none of my shoes fit now! Anyone have any toe relaxer?
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
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