Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Say Kerry had won Ohio-GOP could have blocked his victory...Right

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
 
European Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:13 AM
Original message
Say Kerry had won Ohio-GOP could have blocked his victory...Right
The vote would have been close in Ohio and the Repukes could have blown some minor voting incident out of proportion-and not allow Ohio's electoral votes to be counted. This could happen in the future and it is a good reason to get rid of the Electoral College.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hello Kerry did win Ohio, the Repubs stole the election and we have
the proof for it, the Neo-Cons wanted to move on with their plans of world domination but they knew that Kerry would not go along with it so they dumped him and took over the election period. Please just watch up to what the Neo-Cons are doing.

:mad:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yes. They could have.
In fact, I would bet they had planned to do just that.

There is no being on the planet more dishonest than a Republican.

But they do make great fertilizer when chopped up fine.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
read the law first Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. Now that we've taught them how, you'd better believe it.
I am afraid that we've created a Frankenstein's monster. Face it, pukes are reactionary, they believe that nothing should ever be done for the first time. Now that we've shown them how, you'd better believe that they're going to use it to steal an election.

In fact, I overheard two pukes in the gallery say this exact thing. One turned to the other and said "If we lose in 2008, we'll do this and there's nothing that they can do to stop it as long as we have majorities in both houses." and the other puke agreed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Now the pukes will contest every presidential election a Democrat wins
Unless the electoral college majority is so huge that they have to contest too many states, they will pick a few that would have made the difference and contest them when the electoral college votes are counted.

Were you in the House chamber?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
read the law first Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes. I was in the House chamber.
If we win a presidential election by one state and the pukes control both houses of Congress, we'd better be ready, we'd better be very ready.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. The last Democratic President.
As long as they hold congress. I always figured this is why Gore did not want Democrats to contest the election in 2000. He did not want a war in congress or in the streets.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. They are ALREADY DOING THAT
Gore Won in 2000 -- and the GOP contested to the US Supreme Court.

Kerry Won in 2004 -- and the GOP hacked the vote and owned the Sec. of State in Ohio.

They are already doing this in Washington -- where in Snohomish Co. the GOP fixed the voting machines (default to bush) -- and tried dirty tricks in the hand count.

They are already contesting and or fixing the vote -- the Dems didn't teach them anything except the Constitutional way to show some backbone.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. so what should we have done instead? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. We the people voted
as our American Mythology class (Government) taught us --

But we have learned that our vote does not count.

The "what" that counts is the "who" is doing the vote counting.

The Dem leadership was warned about vote rigging -- about vote fraud -- but all ignored our warnings.

I wrote to my Senator and got a letter back from her telling me that she and the Dem leadership was aware of BBV and computer fraud -- but I no longer believe her response.

As Mike Malloy said last night the GOP used every dirty trick in the book in order to "win" this election -- the list is long -- the old fashion way -- blocking people from access to voting machines, removing names from voter rolls, stuffing ballot boxes. And then they used every modern/electronic method -- owning the voting machine companies, and hacking the vote.

There is no way that bushie was going to lose this election -- and I was one of the people predicting that he would not leave the white house -- no matter who the people voted for. In this he was completely predictable -- he didn't know how to hack the vote but he knows someone who knows how to order the vote to be hacked in his favor.

The Dems were playing by the rules -- but the rules don't apply to bush.

The only way that the Dems can win is to start using the same play book as the bush gang -- and perhaps the Dems have decided that the game isn't worth winning???

But "we" did everything we could have -- we gave money, we registered people to vote, we got out the vote -- and we tried to tell the Dem leadership that the GOPigs would hack the vote.

I'm not in shock because I was certain that the bush gang was going to hack the vote -- bush is very predictable.

The problem is all of our peaceful means of taking what we won are gone. The next logical step is really too awful to think about -- because their side will do whatever it takes to keep their ill gotten power.

The question becomes -- how bad does it have to get before the masses wake up and get angry? How many angry people does it take before the mob takes over? I think I need to review Mass Sociology theory.

At some point people will wake up -- we are awake -- but we are the peaceful ones who don't want war and avoid violence. What happens when the angry, violet masses wake up and realize that their future has been stolen to feed the Enron type monster?



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. "Mass Sociology" Theory
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 02:36 PM by DELUSIONAL

Mass Sociology

Le Bon (1896): social contagion -- People in a group are intellectually inferior (no antibody), so they are easily attacked by bad thoughts

Riesman (1950): American culture has changed from traditional to self-directed and about to become more other-directed. rather than formulated. So it is less stable and less functional, and thus
disappears also rather quickly

Smelser (1963): Value-added theorywhen there are more people involved, the opinion expressed becomes more valuable


So the larger the DU membership is . . . .

So Freeper sign on -- help grow the DU membership.

http://www.psy.zsu.edu.cn/jy9.htm

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zookeeper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Yes, the Rethugs don't need any lessons in getting their way...
they are ruthless and will do whatever it takes to win. I certainly wouldn't have given up this rare opportunity to force attention to the election fraud on the off chance that the Rethugs would be "nicer" the next time a Dem wins.

BushCo and the RW will not be nice, ever, unless they have reason to fear us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
renaissanceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Well don't forget
There is a movement to abolish the electoral college. Even Hillary Clinton thinks that the EC has outlived its use.

But if it's still in place in 2008 (and it probably will be) and the Repugs contest the election (which they probably will), I don't think they will get away with having Congress choose the president. Randi Rhodes was trying to articulate that point on her show the other day. She was saying that we should've had Congress choose the president on 1/6, so that Americans would be outraged that their voting right was taken away. If that were to happen, I'm sure people would take to the streets.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.16200506
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. Well, we have definitely
set a precedent, which they will now be able to use. It's one reason I was against the attempt to contest when there was obviously not a chance in hell that it would succeed in overturning the election.

May I be frank? well, I'm going to assume that I can. Ever since Bush 'won' the White House in 2000, I think many Democrats, including many of our leaders, have been thinking with their hearts rather than their heads. We give Repukes ammunition to use against us. How much more fratricidal could our primaries have been? Everything said against the candidates in the primaries would be used against him, whoever it had been, in the general campaign.

Then, we decided to anoint John Kerry, because it was assumed that he was the most 'electable'. And maybe he was. Doesn't that disturb anyone besides me. It's not like we didn't know that no Northeastern liberal has been elected since JFK. IN fact, name one Democratic president who since then who wasn't a Southerner. There's LBJ, JC, and WJC. Southerners all.

Vice-President doesn't count. I don't think anybody votes on VP. Besides, JE was a trial lawyer, possibly the least-trusted group in America today.

Our hatred for Bush leads us to irrational behavior that alienates the American people. Example? Well, what about the "Bush lies" meme? OK, he lied us into Iraq. that's OK, but then every statement by any administration official, however low, is scrutinized. Any contradictions between what one said and what another said is called a "Bush" lie. No supposition that in a complex organization like the US government that there may be breakdowns in communication. No thought that Murphy's Law might be at work.

No, everything was Bush's own personal lie. I think many of the American people, at least those that paid attention, got tired of it and turned on us.

Now, I could be wrong. Maybe the election actually was stolen. But The increase in Senators? Congressmen? Over multiple election cycles? And no one has come forth to confess and show where the bodies are buried? C'mon. You know what they say, "Three people can keep a secret in two of them are dead."

No, I don't think Bush HAD to steal this election. I think, in our emotional reactions over the last few years that we have given it to him. I hope this changes for 2006.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sunnystarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I'm truly amazed ....
According to your post the Dems should roll over and never do anything for the American people unless it agrees with Repugs since this may give them an idea to use against us. You assume that everyone acted out of emotional not logical rationale. Quite an assumption for sure.

The fact is that very few voters are even aware that their vote can be stolen, thrown away, or suppressed by the manipulation of partisan SOS's. When this actually happens, according to you we should keep our mouths shut since we may be puncturing the myth bubble and exposing the vulnerability of our democracy. They should continue believing out of faith not fact.

While it's true that many drank from the Bush koolaid and voted for him in greater numbers than would have existed with an informed electorate, the sheer increase in numbers of Dem voters forced Bushco into manipulating the totals to deliver him the win. This is evident from logic not emotion. That's why the unusual shift that occurred at about 1am on the 3rd on CNN that took even those in the studio by surprise.

I suggest you look at all the facts from a logical perspective and realize that to keep silent is paramount to treason.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. Not at all.
I just think we should choose our battles wisely. but wisely,or not, the precedent ahs now been set and can be legitimately used by Republicans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidgmills Donating Member (651 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Who set the precedent for going to the Supreme Court?
Or did you forget?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Not al all.
Who would have won if Al Gore had not gone to court? Or have you forgotten? And did it do Gore any good? I don't really think so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
femme.democratique Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
10. Why I like the idea of getting rid of the electoral college...
If you look at the strategy of Rove and his minions, he focused on the states where he would get the most bang for the buck by executing fraud (ie populous politically divided "swing" states). Once the electoral college is removed, that incentive will dissapate. It would be much harder to execute fraud in such a way to guarantee a desired result over 120+ million votes because you'd then need to control more of the chessboard. I also like it because the candidates will need to campaign in areas where if the electoral college exists they wouldn't go to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidgmills Donating Member (651 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Small states will never allow it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
VAMom Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Going away from the electoral college would require . .
a change to the Constitution, or 2/3'rds of the states to ratify. I agree, I don't ever see that happening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
corbett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
18. You Forget The Other Two Angles
Yes, in theory, Congress could have had a straight party line vote to accept the first set of electors from Ohio but that would have been politically risky. What should have happened and remains a distant possibility was for the hand recount of Ohio to take place and delay the inauguration. That would have provided enough lead time to bring in the fraud evidence from Florida, Ohio, Nevada and South Dakota and blown the whole thing wide open.

This is exactly why I refuse to give up hope until the coronation, which I still believe will be blocked.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Democrat Dragon Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. coronation?
what are you talking about?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. you know
what they do to sacred, holy dogmatic leaders such as Bush :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Dec 19th 2014, 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC