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OK, if we agree on some of this, we could say that we are a "movement"

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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:10 PM
Original message
OK, if we agree on some of this, we could say that we are a "movement"
- We don't think that the last 2 elections were "won" by "*"

- We will support the notion of investigating the fraud with full force. The 2004 election is not over because fraud has transformed the American "democracy" in an artificial concept.

- We are willing to contact each other privately, with serious objectives in mind. The goal would be to coordinate the next stages of the movement.

- We will need leaders, people willing to give us advice, guidance and call us to task.

- We will be responsible on the delivery of our message. Lots of internal debate but ALL BEHIND OUR PEOPLE when the time comes.

- We understand that the keyboards of our PCs are just tools. Other ways of activism HAVE A BIGGER IMPACT. The internet can connect us but will not replace direct presence on the public arena.

- We are willing to make sacrifices in order to save this land from total chaos.

- We have to seek the truth. If "Democrats" ask for our money they better talk to us directly not using bulk mail or telemarketing agencies.

- Our trust and respect HAS TO BE EARNED. SOME DEMOCRATS WILL NEVER GET IT. They have failed repeatedly and, God, they had thousand of opportunities to show backbone and honesty.

If we don't agree in anything of what I posted above, we are just a minor "blip" in the political universe, IMO.
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Bill MI Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Only if we are active.
We need to flood the Judiciary Repuglicans with e-mails, letters, and phone calls in order to get them to understand how important this is. They MUST hold FULL investigations with subpeona powers.

<http://judiciary.house.gov/contact.aspx >

The idiots have megaphones, but we have numbers!

The Senate Democrats were cowed, this time by their constituents, into doing what they should have done in 2000. We can't stop now. The Fight has only begun!

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renaissanceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. Yeah, we can't stop.
We have the momentum going... now we NEED to follow through.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.16200506
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Bill MI Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. You ask a little too much.
No bulk mail?

We need to give them time to do their jobs.
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. That was just a "draft"
It can be modified, of course.

BTW, when I read Kerry's letters of McAuliffe's bulk money orders...err, invitations, all starting with "dear friend...", I just wanted to laugh!

You know, my "friends" answer the phone and respond to my messages, sometimes. They don't just want my money.

Plus, they're not doing such a "good job" as we all know!
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Bill MI Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Bulk mail is easy
but not necessarily effective.

It's a tool.

Kerry could have done much better.


But flooding the Juiciary committee with corespondence is the only way to get the Repugs to do what is right.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. I think bulk mail is a waste of time and money.
Internet contacts work much better IMHO.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. Check the following URL on Monday, 10 Jan 2005...
...you may find a rather large and energetic and focused group who will never roll over.....to quote from a private email received earlier this evening:

"In the next few days, a new organization will launch called www.VelvetRevolution.us that will not be afraid to lead and act for our beloved democracy. This org has the support of all those who stood up in Congress this week and deserves all the support we can give. This will be our citizens movement, and we, The New American Patriots, will be the ground soldiers in America's Velvet Revolution."

Peace.

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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Thanks for the link (n/t)
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. Very ingriguing. How'd you find out about this and that it has the support
of those who stood up?
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. They had thousand of opportunities to show backbone and honesty?
How many of those opportunities did you actually sit down and call them, or write them a note, or visit their offices and TELL THEM WHAT YOU EXPECTED OF THEM??? Hardly thousands, I'm guessing.

And they're sure not psychic! seito's the only psychic Dem I know.

NGU.


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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I've sent 400 emails and wrote 200 letters...
That just during the last 6 weeks. I'm not counting my media contacts, the 150 not answered phone calls I've made to the Kerry campaing, etc., etc., etc.

If I can do that and even few hundreds of people did the same, I can say with certainty that they had THOUSAND OF OPPORTUNITIES TO ACT.

I also don't want to mention all the checks I wrote...

The only people who responded me:

Mark Crispin Miller
Bob Fertik (Democrats.com)
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Then the Dems aren't the problem - the few hundreds of people are!
My State Party Chair said the other night that legislators can get literally and pitifully FIVE LETTERS on some of the most important issues they consider. That's sad.

NGU.


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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yes, I believe that is true.
It's become very clear that the Democratic party base hasn't been organizing and communicating with its leadership on a significant level. We've started to do that now. We need to not only continue but to escalate that contact. They need our input and they need our activism. We must work locally, that much is very, very clear to me.
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. No, what I'm saying is that, perhaps that's the problem
I see your point, however, the thing is that I'm sure thousands of people have done what I did.

I tried to contact Kerry's campaign right 1 week after the "Swift Boat Crooks" were tearing him up. That was the beginning.

I mean c'mon, I know a little about framing the debate. If you don't have "street wisdom" I can give you some FOR FREE.

I gave him MY MONEY. THEY DIDN'T WANT MY OPINION...
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. BULLSHIT.
One week after the Swiftboat Liars, they probably had to build a new post office in Boston to handle all JK's mail. Your letter was just a drop in the bucket.

We can't just contact them about the "sexy" issues - and THAT's the point.

As the poster said above, we have to RE-ESTABLISH CONTACT with them. On all issues. Open a dialogue. Write, call, or email regularly. Make sure they know us by name. Someone on another thread suggested forming Progressive caucuses. It can be done. WE just have to do it.

NGU.


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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Well, that "sexy" (for you) issue KILLED HIM
Edited on Fri Jan-07-05 11:50 PM by RaulVB
And I don't care how many letters you receive. You hire staff to OPEN THOSE IF YOU ARE DOING SHIT TO GET YOUR POINT ACROSS.

His staff was SCRATCHING THEIR COLLECTIVE ASSES, simple.

I don't take that as an excuse for acting like an amateur.

In this country politicians DON'T GIVE A SHIT FOR THE PEOPLE'S OPINIONS.

So, I guess I will be considered "RELEVANT" when I open my "Big, fat, check-book", which I doubt I'll ever get...
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. The RepubliCONs have VOLUNTEERS to open their mail...
But you go ahead and sit on your big, fat check-book. You get the government you deserve.

NGU.


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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I guess you're missing quite a few points here, but for the sake of it...
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 12:06 AM by RaulVB
1. So, you think only the "rethugs" have volunteers?

2. Kerry was so "disliked" that he couldn't get any?

3. You think that your candidate just need to ask you for money and you need TO OBBEY AND FOLLOW?

4. Or you think that you "make your name known" to a presidential candidate by GUESSING WHO'S IS GOING TO BE THAT PERSON 30 YEARS BEFORE HE/SHE RUNS FOR THE OFFICE?

5. Or you are just arguing because you feel like arguing tonight?

You propose DIRECT CONTACT with people that gives a shit about direct contact, eh, or should I talk with my NON-EXISTENT COUNTY DEMOCRATIC PARTY ORGANISATION?

The folks that just blew wide open Portland's Mayor office for a guy WHO BEATS THEM WITHOUT CAMPAIGNING???


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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. Then FUCKING START A COUNTY DEMOCRATIC PARTY ORGANIZATION!!
1. RepubliCONs are consistent and persistent.

2. Kerry was much loved - but this isn't about personalities, it's about COMMITTMENT TO VALUES.

3. You talk a lot about money. Hmmmm... so do the corporatist Radical RWers...

4. I'm saying make your name known to YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS and YOUR COUNTY PARTY PEOPLE. See point 2.

5. (That bit of disruption won't be dignified with an answer.)

I repeat - you got a problem with your county Dem Party organization (with a "z")?? Then FUCKING START A COUNTY DEMOCRATIC PARTY ORGANIZATION!! Start here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

NGU.


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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. McAuliffe and Kerry must be "Radical RWers" then...
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 12:16 PM by RaulVB
And Carville and Begala and Dean...

Fuck yeah, those "idealists"...

"We need money because THEY have more money than us...!!!"

Check some books and you'll find organi(Z)ation and organi(S)ation, both ways.

Thanks for a most interesting conversation.
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euler Donating Member (515 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
18. "in order to save this land from total chaos"
Your land or ours ?
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Hi moron!
This land belongs to the human race...you're not included, I guess...
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Uhh..why are you being hostile? I think he was just asking because
you have 'skeptic foreigner' in your sig line.
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Long, nasty story (n/t)
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. Because the Radical RW needs to divide to win.
Can't do it any other way.

NGU.


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housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
20. You got some good ideas here, RaulVB
Looks like the start of something good. Congratulations!

Do you know what to do next?
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. Working on it
I'm talking with some people and also trying to make some contacts with people that has worked organizing elsewhere.

After that is done, I'll give updates.

Regards
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 03:12 AM
Response to Original message
22. Raul, I've been thinking about this thread all day and have a
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 03:14 AM by sfexpat2000
suggestion. What if we post when and how we got involved with the issue of vote fraud? Because in thinking about what we just did, we may learn what we can do again that works.

I can go first. I work from home with my husband. We write and sometimes produce so I'm on the machine all the time. The machine and the phone.

When I realized the vote was stolen (11/2) and realized that MSM would probably have nothing for days (optomistic), I went on line. Accidently I found a group that was mainly people in Fl and OH and they were a mess but a truly wonderful mess. We organized all kinds of actions and also, dug for facts -- DU threads made their way there.

At the same time, I was in touch with my Greens and my anti-war people -- all on the net. So, eventually, I could get emails out to about 5k people? I think that's about right. And not just people, people I knew who were already interested and who were in other networks.

We have some MSM contacts and looking back, the work we did on the net easily reached more people than all of them combined. !

What worked for me was no to over organize but mainly to flashmob. To post actions for the group that were managable. And that's my deal.



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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Send me a PM, please, thanks (n/t)
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darkworkz Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. What works??
Is very simple. You must first seek out the information that clearly explains how we got to this place and in this position.

(the text above the link isn't mine)

The Neo Conservative movement in the Republican party was founded
ideologically by Leo Strauss, a "man" who believed that saving his
cowboy image for America was more important than truth or honesty. Since
their inception they have invented imaginary threats to America such as
Rumsfeld's overblown image of the USSR up to Saddam's non existent WMDs.
The story is deeper, far deeper than I have written here in this sig
file. Check out this three part documentary by the BBC to learn more
about it.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm

After that you must realize how this "new" information defines and explains the "opposition" (or repugs).

These are the the first easy steps that should be taken. After you done watching grab a cup of coffee and put your feet up and think awhile.

Work with others to reconnect with and reclaim the system you own, like what's taking place on DU right now. You just got proof of ownership on 1/6/05.

The task at hand isn't that daunting. Information is the MAIN key.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Agree, darkworz and I know about Strauss's little bastards.
And will check out the BBC doc. Thanks.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. sfexpat2000, if you haven't seen it yet
come on over to our thread and let me know what you think.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Done. n/t
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Thanks. You are a rock star. nt
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myschkin Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
23. Agree!


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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. Thanks (n/t)
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
33. CALL FOR VOLUNTEERS!!!! Election reform group!!
We are organizing, coming up with specific categories of action and then listing tasks under those categories.

Come on over and join up with us. We are going to try to blow the doors off of this mess and make a difference!

If you want to be more than a "blip"...



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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