Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Miami County, Ohio. Fraud or incredible coincidences?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
 
nodictators Donating Member (977 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 10:37 AM
Original message
Miami County, Ohio. Fraud or incredible coincidences?

Miami County, Ohio, pre-official results as of 9am EST Wednesday:


Miami
Bush, George W. Republican 20,807 65.80%
Kerry, John F. Democratic 10,724 33.92%
Badnarik, Michael 55 0.17%
Peroutka, Michael Anthony 34 0.11%
Cobb, David Keith-WI 0 0.00%
Duncan, Richard A.-WI 0 0.00%
Schriner, Joe -WI 0 0.00%
Parker, John T.-WI 0 0.00%
Harris, James -WI 0 0.00%
Zych, Thomas F.-WI 0 0.00%
Precincts Reporting: 100.00% 31,620


After that, they found nearly 19,000 more ballots and changed their results to:

Miami
Bush, George W. Republican 33,039 65.77%
Kerry, John F. Democratic 17,039 33.92%
Badnarik, Michael 101 0.20%
Peroutka, Michael Anthony 56 0.11%
Cobb, David Keith-WI 0 0.00%
Duncan, Richard A.-WI 0 0.00%
Schriner, Joe -WI 0 0.00%
Parker, John T.-WI 0 0.00%
Harris, James -WI 0 0.00%
Zych, Thomas F.-WI 0 0.00%
Precincts Reporting: 100.00% 50,235


Note that they had 100% of their precincts reporting on Wednesday, and still 100% now.

More importantly, note that the Kerry percentage of the votes stayed exactly the same to the one-hundredth of a percentage-point (or, one in 10,000) even after the nearly 19,000 ballots were added to the 31,620 reported earlier. And the Bush percentage was only three one-hundreths of a percentage-point different after the revision. Also, the new vote counts for both Bush and Kerry end in the digits 039.

Is all of this a long-shot coincidence? Or, were the revised vote counts scaled up by using the ratios from the first set of results? Was a database or the voting machines programmed to cough up results in preset ratios?

If the latter two questions above are true, we have election fraud.

Coupled with the Gahanna fiasco discovered yesterday, Friday, by another DUer, it is evident that Ohio elections are open to fraud and incompetence. Apparently, no one is guarding the chicken house there.

http://election.sos.state.oh.us/results/RaceDetail.aspx...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. That's an even 16000 votes difference.
Odds of that happening?????
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robpopulace Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Hmm...
16000 vote difference...

Maybe we should go to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. and ask...


Wha wha wha.....?????
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. .629 % for BOTH
Now, what's the odds of that happening? They found votes, and oddly enough, both candidates got an increase of .629%. That doesn't make any sense. That happened in Warren County too, where they closed the counting observation due to Homeland Security. There, both Bush and Kerry got a 1.3% increase in votes from 2000. Exact same percentage, but more overall votes for Bush. Just seems weird to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. We wuz robbed... we just need to get the right people to recognize it! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bufffbison Donating Member (384 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
4. Theres evidence of fraud in Darke County as well
this is some investigation i've done on my own

Comparing the 2000 election results to the 2004 election results.
When checking out the two, you will notice Kerry had recieved 78 LESS votes than al gore in 2000 while Bush recieved over 3,000 MORE votes than what he got in 2000........ this sounds fishy to me. What are the chances of the 3,000 new voters casted their ballots, all voted for Bush and not one single ballot was casted for Kerry. Not only that, what would be the chances of Kerry losing votes, turn around vote for bush compared to those casted in 2000? Not very likely, and I sense some hanky panky in the voting cookie jar!

In all of the surrounding counties, both kerry and bush had recieved more votes in this election than in 2000. Darke is the only county in the Miami valley (that i have discovered so far) for kerry to recieve less votes than al gore, and for bush to recieve an astronomical amount of votes compared to 2000.

I think this is VERY fishy.... please someone review this for me, and see if you come up with the same conclusions as me.

I discussed this with the Board of Elections in Darke County, but they didn't seem to be concerned (But I am!), and they said their voter punch card machines were working properly "to their knowledge," and the results stand as they are. Something must truely be up now! Because several voters had contacted the Kerry Headquarters in Darke County, reporting possible faulty punch card machines. I have emailed a Kerry lawyer and the media regards to this, but nothing is happening about it! I have spead sheets and voting information for each precinct and if you would like for me to mail them to you, please let me know!

Election Results from 2004
http://66.241.236.181/elect/ohdarke/results.txt


Election Results from 2000
http://www.electionsonthe.net/oh/darke/elecres/20001107...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
arewenotdemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. just want to point out that Darke is one of rural counties bordering
Indiana (probably 95% white) where the Repukes say they really increased turnout.

I was born there and have a relative that sent a LTTE of my hometown newspaper the week before the election, thoroughly trashing Kerry with one lie after another. He ended his letter by asking the question:

"If Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, or the North Korean dictator could vote November 2, who do you think they would vote for?"

All four LTTEs were pro-Puke. The gay marriage amendment to the Ohio constitution was a HUGE issue, IMO.

I know these people. They are as reactionary, politically, as the reddest of the red in Alabama or Mississippi or Georgia. A 70/30 break does not surprise me, considering the Pukes hold almost all the cards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. Yes, It's Fishy,
but it's not enough yet to go to the media.

Is there a way to check ballots counted versus voters showing up at the polls? I've seen some numbers from Florida.

There are legitimate reasons for the general pattern you're referring to -- a big Republican GOTV drive among evangelicals and other social conservatives. But that might mask ballot box stuffing on top of that trend. That's what makes it difficult.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
5. please add this post to this link if not already there...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

and then email it to bev@blackboxvoting.org

Bev Harris' website it www.blackboxvoting.org

Please do this right away. Thanks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nodictators Donating Member (977 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
6. Just found: Miami used Optical Scan with a Central Count
Who knows what happens to the ballots before they are put through the counting machine. Optical scan machines are relatively cheap, about $5,000, and one machine is enough for most precincts, except for extremely large urban precincts. Nothing like that in Miami County Ohio. (Miami County is 20 miles north of Dayton). Why not buy a machine that prescans for errors and then counts the votes as they are cast?

Miami County Detail: Election Official Contact

Voting Technology: Optical Scan: Central Count (!!!!!)
Vendor: Election Systems and Software, Inc. (ES&S)
Data Source: CASE-ohio.org; electionline.org
Last Verified: 4-Sep
Bush, George W. Republican 33,039 65.77%
Kerry, John F. Democratic 17,039 33.92%

Source:
http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php...

County Results vs. (e-Voting-) Equipment

http://verifiedvoting.org/verifier/map
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
confrontationclaws Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. Gimme a break!

Think of the first count as a "poll." Instead of using a small, statistically valid sample, it used a HUGE one: 62.9% of the actual voters. It established the 65% to 33% Bush lead.

What are the chances that after adding another 19,000 votes (from the same population!) the percentages would NOT be close to those ascertained in the "poll"????

Let's not lose our heads--there's enough real crap to deal with...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
VoteJohn04_com Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. FRAUD
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oldmanpeacenik Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. Well...
Divide it out and you'll see that the percentage didn't quite stay the same. They rounded to the nearest hundredth of a percent.

And the point about sampling is a good one.

Now about the last three digits being identical. By my reckoning there's 1 in 1000 odds of that happening by chance. Thing is, there are thousands and thousands of precincts in the country. Improbable things can happen if you allow enough chances.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
republicansareevil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. Isn't it nice that we have so many new posters...
...who are kind enough to tell us that everything is all right and we just shouldn't worry our pretty little heads about it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. It gives me warm, fuzzy feelings of confidence that they're right
:eyes: You, too? ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. it gives me a feeling, alright. Not sure if I'd call it "warm and fuzzy".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
confrontationclaws Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Just trying to be logical....
My low post count shouldn't prevent me from using my brain. If we protest an election based on easily-countered arguments, our position becomes weakened--for example, some media and blogs are referring to us as the tin-foil hat crowd. We need argue from strength, using facts, circumstances, disparities, and aberrations in the process that are not so easily explained by benign phenomena.

One problem I am seriously disturbed by is where more votes were cast in a county or precinct than the number of voters registered. I just think that some problems are more easily explained than others, and we should stress those that are more highly suspicious.

Insted of being attacked, maybe someone could show me the fallacy of my argument in my earlier post. This is one area in which I'd LOVE to be proved wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chelsea Patriot Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. I was just thinking the same thing!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kittenpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. did the total # of Ohio votes change when that county changed?
Since Kerry was only down 130,000-ish on Wednesday morning, would those votes be included there or added on?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BQueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. ES&S ex-employee had access to Auglaize Co BOE computer Oct
http://www.theeveningleader.com/articles/2004/11/06/new...
Saturday, November 6, 2004
Board awaits state followup
By ERIN MILLER

WAPAKONETA -- Auglaize County Board of Election members say they have not heard any more from the state regarding a possible investigation after receiving notice of being placed on administrative oversight last week.

(snip)

In a letter dated Oct. 21, Ken Nuss, former deputy director of the Auglaize County Board of Elections, claimed that Joe McGinnis, a former employee of Election Systems and Software (ES&S), the company that provides the voting system in Auglaize County, was on the main computer that is used to create the ballot and compile election results, which would go against election protocol. Nuss claimed in the letter that McGinnis was allowed to use the computer the weekend of Oct. 16.

Nuss, who resigned from his job Oct. 21 after being suspended for a day, was responsible for overseeing the computerized programming of election software, according to his job description. His resignation is effective Nov. 11.
(snip)
*******************
and I wonder how quickly Blackwell is moving on that "oversight"
there were many oddities in Auglaize county this year. More in this thread.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redsoxliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. absentee?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
15. I would be less inclined to consider statistical odds indicating fraud
if it weren't for the media echo chamber and Rove himself going out there and repeatedly shoving down our throats their bullshit that "exit polls are not reliable."

Remember, it was the mouth of Sauron himself, Drudge, who first alerted everyone not to pay attention to exit polls. Not too soon after, georgie calls a press conference to the White House.

Isn't that special.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ElementaryPenguin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. Piling up the evidence here! And then we need to left them have it!
We've led the mass media before - and we're gonna do it now!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
20. Are you snapshotting all this info? Cause the websites will be
erasing stuff fast as they can to adjust things so they work out in **'s favor with no questionable areas.

------------------------------------------------------------
Help expose the election 2004 voter fraud today!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
23. of course it's not a coincidence
nothing in politics is a coincidence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leyton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
25. Huh? I don't get it.
Maybe I'm missing something, but is it that unlikely that absentee/provisional ballots would mirror those cast on election day?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shelley806 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
26. People, if you read nothing else today, please link to An Examination
of Florida Election Results:

BTW: I've only included the first paragraph and none of the tables and graphs.

http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~adamsb6/elections /


Examination of the Florida Elections


New: Florida is reporting more votes in the presidential election than it is reporting citizens that turned out to vote. Adding all the presidential race votes reported by the Florida Department of State here yields a total of 7,588,422 votes. The Florida Department of State reports here that voter turnout totalled only 7,350,900. That's a difference of 237,522. 3.1% of Florida's presidential votes were in excess of the number of voters in the election. 380,952 votes separate the President and John Kerry in Florida.
If we disregard the votes cast on the Model 100s and the Optech 3P Eagles, the difference between Bush and Kerry drops to 124,514. The votes cast on the Model 100s and the Optech 3P Eagles in conjunction with votes that cannot be tied to voters may have elected George W. Bush.
The 13 counties that report more votes than voters delivered 39.4% of the votes cast in Florida. These are the 13 counties:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Sep 01st 2014, 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC