Is Democracy Over?

[brainshrub]

Poll question: Is Democracy Over?

Is Randi right? Is it over?

We torture people, we suppress votes, the opposition party doesn't have any courage and corporations are firmly in charge.

I say the Republic is dead. What say you DU?

By the way, just because Democracy is dead doesn't mean we can't make a new Democracy. We can take this country back... it simply means that most of us here will spend at least a few days behind bars.

Y'all think I'm kidding? Wait till they pass the flag-burning amendment.

ON EDIT: Coma = Dead.

[bunny planet]

1. no just on hiatus.

[cry baby]

22. agree n/t

[Pacifist Patriot]

2. It's in a coma waiting for us to breathe life into it again.

[Stand and Fight]

3. kick

:kick:

[PROGRESSIVE1]

4. In our current state, the only way that Democrats will take...

back the reigns of power is if we can get a 1932 style landslide.

[brainshrub]

11. I don't think there is a Democratic party anymore.

The infastructure is gone.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

63. There is one but it morphed into Republican Light. n/t

[Not a Sheep]

5. Neither... but it's fallen and it can't get up. /eom

[seito]

6. Step 1 in Killing a Democracy

Convince everyone that hope is lost. Stay tuned for Step 2.

[brainshrub]

16. Wrong. Step 1 is: admit there is a problem!

We have to admit the problem. There is no vote and no opposition party.

[seito]

27. Funny

That is NOT what I saw today.

[Amigust]

44. What you saw today was a brave and earnest attempt by two

Democratic patriots who stood up to challenge a travesty of monumental proportion and not a single additional Democratic senator supported Sen. Boxer's challenge. In the House you saw 30 additional patriots vote to support Rep. Tubbs Jones challenge. This comes to a grand total of 32 American patriots in who spoke up for Democracy in Congress today. How many Democrats are there in Congress all together?

This staggering rejection by Congressional Democrats is the monumental travesty of January 6, 2005 and is a fitting epitaph for the Democratic Party.

[seito]

45. I guess my glass is half full.

:)

[Amigust]

53. Self deleted

[AntiFascist]

34. Step 1....

Discourage or discredit those who are concerned that democracy is dead.

[seito]

40. Step 2- Misdirect

Look- the enemy is the Democratic Party

[RagingInMiami]

7. When your vote doesn't count

Democracy is dead

[earth mom]

61. Yeah

and when your suppossed "elected officials" don't stand up and fight for that right-it's over.

[scottxyz]

8. I was hopeful...

...tuned into CSpan via Internet hookup.

I expected them to come out with evidence - not just to talk about "reform".

I think democracy in DC is dead - it will have to come to life somewhere else now (via the web maybe?).

[Boswells_Johnson]

9. Democracy is there when people want it bad enough

[GregD]

10. I hate to tell ya, it was over 4 years ago.

This was just a dry run ot see if we could get it back.

Stick a fork in it - it will be a long time before you see fair elections again.

[kitkat65]

24. No kidding. I just couldn't stop thinking about what didn't happen

4 years ago. That one single inaction has cost this country so much in such a little time.

[DELUSIONAL]

46. Yes it was dead in 2000

that's why this time I didn't grieve -- because I've already been there and done that.

What we saw today was great -- and we know who the good guys are. ALL the democrats should have supported Barbara Boxer -- but many couldn't be bothered.

But there are a whole lot of MFSOBs who call themselves democrats who should be force -- FORCED to admit that they are in fact GOPigs.

Talking about the 2006 or 2008 elections is a fucking waste of time -- because THEY count the vote.

Democracy is dead and the majority of American doesn't give a flying fuck.

I was hoping that democracy was just in a coma -- but I know for sure that it is dead. The experiment that was America is dead -- I hope another country does better than we did.

Thus my user name --

[NoPasaran]

12. It's pining for the fjords n/t

[crispini]

51. It's an ex-parrot! n/t

[AngryAmish]

13. I voted wrong

Yes, if anyone has the balls to call this thing we did last November an election they are brazen indeed.

[Up2Late]

14. Welcome to the Corporate Police State

U.S.A.-R.I.P. :hangover:

[candice]

15. We need to get to work and do what we can--all politics is local

email Boxer and thank her for her rare courage!

[brainshrub]

17. What is her email anyways?

[understandinglife]

18. "Its about Ameica: currently on life-support, but because We The People...

....started DOING, late evening 2 Nov 2004, it may survive.

We now know what we can achieve -- witness Congressman Conyers 'status report' and the history that was made today. Imagine what we can do in 2 more months, and the next 2 and beyond.

Democracy is not a spectator activity; that much should now be very clear to many who slept during civics class.

Peace.

[Wiley50]

19. Stick a fork in it.

And start a Progressive Democrat Party.

[kitkat65]

25. There is a Progressive Democrat party

see www.pdamerica.org

[El Fuego]

20. Ironically, Democracy is the problem.

We have true majority rule. Unfortunately, the majority of people in this country are STUPID.

Democrats failed to capture the hearts and minds of the truly ignorant, who voted in large numbers. :dunce:

[brainshrub]

26. I don't buy that.

The failure was that Democrats aren't fighting back.

Voters aren't stupid, they just don't have a framework to see the danger. They are ignorant, not stupid.

[El Fuego]

59. I agree with that.

But honestly, some individuals I personally know who voted for Bush I would characterize as stupid and/or ignorant. People who never watched the news in their lives, much less read a newspaper. That doesn't necessarily make them stupid, but intelligent people tend to seek out information about the world around them.

I am just griping that our system makes it necessary to go after the lowest common denominator voter.

[Casablanca]

21. It's on the table, but the machine is still going "ping". nt

[Ladyhawk]

23. I agree with Randi and Mike Malloy.

I'm torn between being happy that the Dems weren't totally spineless--just 94% of them this time--and feeling pissed off that most of them just gave transparent elections lip service.

I often get a little ticked off that prominent people on this board try to tell us how we should feel about days like today. We've sunk so low we're supposed to be ecstatic that one senator stood to contest the suspicious Ohio election? I don't know. I'm happy some progress was made, but is it too little too late? Will the Dems just roll over and allow this Gonzales turd to become Attorney General?

I wasn't "disappointed" because I've learned not to expect much from the Democrats. I thank those who tried so hard and I'm proud of Barbara Boxer. Beyond that, no promises.

Since November 3, I've seriously pondered switching parties. I've considered staying in the Dem Party to harass the spineless. The other night Mike Malloy said, "Why should we harass them into doing the right thing...shouldn't they know what to do anyway?"

Malloy has a point.

[brainshrub]

29. I don't know if that would be effective.

But I admit it has appeal.

Right now Dean is keeping me in the party. I keep thinking I'm going to go Green, but each time I think of another reason to stay.

[earth mom]

64. I'm new

and I agree...I feel like the prominent people on this board are trying to shove how we're "suppossed" to feel down our throats. And frankly that feels too much like the * ideology of "you're either with us or against us".

My expectations weren't that high-I didn't expect * to be booted from office. However, I know what lip service is when I see it. And that's what we witnessed today. And it's not acceptable.

Funny too, how folks around here keep saying that the game has now begun-yeah like how? Where in the hell do we go from here? There ain't alot of options, I'd say. Didn't I just read that they are trying to get rid of term limits-there was a thread about it here just the other day. As a result we could be looking at old * in office forever.

The thing that really amazes me the most is how everyone thinks people will suddenly get fed up and take to the streets and that that will change everything. And pray tell, when will that happen?! Sorry, but too many people are just too comfy or too afraid to do that. It will have to get really really ugly and really really miserable in this country for that to happen. We're talking major depression or WW III or worse.

So much for this great democracy-for the people, of the people, by the people. Because when it comes right down to it, all those senators did (except Boxer) was save their own skins.

[mattclearing]

28. As long as there are people, Democracy will not die.

Or did you think that voting was democracy?

Democracy was on Pennsylvania Avenue today. The vote is the old stand-by, but when that fails, democracy means take to the streets, shout it from the rooftops.

As long as people care enough to speak and be heard, there will be democracy.

If they repeal the 1st Amendment and institute the death penalty for criticizing the government, then come back to me about the death of Democracy.

[brainshrub]

32. Have you heard of "Free Speech Zones"?

Trust me, the 1st Ammendment is dead. As far as the death penalty for criticizing the govt... that doens't need to happen for Democracy to be dead. We are all prisoners in our own country.

[mattclearing]

36. I know about free speech zones.

People have to defy them. I stand by my comment.

[FreepFryer]

30. If Democracy is dead, then so are we. Because we're not to be tolerated in

a totalitarian regime for long.

I agree it's on the ropes, but dead? No.

We'll take it back and work for decades to undo the damage done in the GOP administrations of the last fifty years.

[katinmn]

31. No, I think it was revived today

[GreenArrow]

33. It hasn't been born yet

The facade of Democracy we currently enjoy is necrotic and terminal.

[rock]

35. Right. It's dead

But maybe it'll get better.

[paparush]

37. When the Repubs can run a succesful campaign

based on non-issues like gay marriage, partial birth abortions, and capping jury awards,then Democracy is dead. Dead as a doornail. When millions of people are willing to ignore an illegal war, are willing to let this Administration gut environmental protections, etc, etc, etc...when millions of high school and college graduates are willing to be spoonfed this pablum of lies, then Democracy has died by consent. My fire has gone out. I am absolutely apathetic tonight. I am trying to imagine circumstances that would get me exited about national politics again. That issue may be the Draft, as I am the father of a 9 yr old son. Jeb '08 will NOT send my son overseas to die while killing poor people.

[info being]

38. And democracy cannot be re-gained through democratic principles.

Unfortunately.

[justiceischeap]

39. The only way we will get real reform

Is when there is no longer a middle class. Unfortunately, that isn't far off. When the folks in suburbia are turned out in the streets from their cushy homes because their Repug party has made them poor, then the revolution begins.

In this day and age the only thing that seems to matter most to people in this country is their SUV's and their pocketbooks. When those are greatly affected, change will take place. The question is, will it be too late?

[JohnLocke]

41. Not by a long shot!

We've suffered more terrible times.

We've survived a war of independence against a vastly more powerful enemy.
We've survived an invasion of Washington.
We've survived a long, brutal Civil War.
We've survived a bitter Reconstruction and trumped over large-scale institutionalized racism in the civil rights movement
We've survived two world ones, one of which was on two small fronts.
We've survived the Cold War.
We've survived Reagan and Nixon.

Of we did all that, I have confidence that we will survive this dark time. Keep the faith!

[Peace Patriot]

42. That was a hard choice. I finally voted "No." I think we have one...

...thing left we can do: Not be fooled by Dems' illusion that BushCon Congress is going to do anything but more bad things to our right to vote, oppose ANY diminution of states' power over elections, and work locally, state by state, county by county, in highly focused grass roots groups to achieve:

a) paper ballot
b) hand counts

or at least

a) paper receipt for every vote
b) open source code

and 3) undoctored Exit Polls as a check on election fraud (as they do everywhere else in the world).

...A.S.A.P., while we still have the power.

[flpoljunkie]

43. It's on life support, and it is up to us to do something about it.

[rman]

47. has been long dead

-

[slay]

48. Stick a fork in it. It's dead Jim.

Only drastic action can save democracy now.

[Emillereid]

49. The Republic is dead -- long live the REVOLUTION!

[eowyn_of_rohan]

50. It's hopefully just hibernating.......nt

[darkworkz]

52. thank god you people weren't fighting the British.

This would be Canada II.

I love Canadians but thank god I'm a citizen of the USA.

[brainshrub]

58. If these Democratic Senators were fighting the British,

all the founding fathers would have been hung.

[LibDemAlways]

54. Our democracy died 12/12/00

Today the final nail was hammered into the coffin. USA RIP.

[Blue Christmas]

55. they can take away our votes...

but they can't take away OUR FREEDOM!

Oh wait, I think they're doing that too...

Of course, I say that with a healthy dose of gallows humor (which is the ultimate survival mechanism in times like these, I believe).

To answer your question more fully: it's not over 'til we say it's over.

[k8conant]

56. No, stroke not = Dead

I'm reminded of a friend who frequently wondered if God had had a stroke. I think there is a sore lack of blood flow to the brain of democracy but I hope there can be healing. First, of course, the Republicans and anti-Democratic Democrats need to wake up from their own strokes and learn to speak and understand again.

[k8conant]

57. We need IRV = Instant Runoff Voting...

That was discussed in the CBC press conference at the conclusion of the House vote. IRV might be too complicated for the *ies to figure out.

[Old Mouse]

60. Get ready for a quiet purge n/t

[The Revolution]

62. That is not dead which can eternal lie

And with strange aeons even death may die

[brainshrub]

65. How long was the Greek Democracy dead?

What? 3000 years? I don't have that kind of time.

[helderheid]

66. It's dead

but I believe in reincarnation.

[ClarkinMich]

67. I predict

we have crossed the bottom... we are now on the way back... to a "more democratic society" Analogies are powerful, and if democracy is daylight, then today is December 22 - and every day from here forward has more light.

[Niche]

68. Uh, people are being murdered for it all over the world. Haven't you

heard?

[cyberpj]

69. Read these definitions and then you decide :

Fascism
a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control and extreme pride in country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed


Definition of Fascism
The word fascism has come to mean any system of government resembling Mussolini's, that exalts nation and sometimes race above the individual, uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition, engages in severe economic and social regimentation, engages in corporatism, i.e. merges state with corporate power.


Fascism,
modern political ideology that seeks to regenerate the social, economic, and cultural life of a country by basing it on a heightened sense of national belonging or ethnic identity.

Fascism rejects liberal ideas such as freedom and individual rights, and often presses for the destruction of elections, legislatures, and other elements of democracy. Despite the idealistic goals of fascism, attempts to build fascist societies have led to wars and persecutions that caused millions of deaths. As a result, fascism is strongly associated with right-wing fanaticism, racism, totalitarianism, and violence.