Holy SHIT... Bush wins **WITHOUT** Ohio!

[leftyandproud]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Presidential_04/RCP_Electoral_Count_Final.html

If it is possible, I am even more depressed now.

[batchdem04]

1. why is WI red?

i thought Kerry won it...from CNN:

Kerry
1,488,935 50%

Bush
1,477,122 49%

[leftyandproud]

2. military absentees

Apparently they are going 70% Bush, and none of them are back yet.

[Dhalgren]

8. If the military has gone 70% for Bush, then

my "support the troops" days are over! It's one thing to be sent where you don't want to go, for reasons you don't understand, but it is altogether different when you actively support a murdering, war criminal - while pulling the trigger for him!!

[still_one]

11. I agree

[op6203]

18. What about the other 30%?

I'm sure they still want your support.
OP

[Dhalgren]

19. They are still acting as trigger men

and they need to stop.

[George_S]

39. real clear politics? They are freepers.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Ah how cute

hope you don't have draft age kids, becuase the draft is now coming

They have taken the first steps

Oh and by the way, I don't buy it and I will tell you why... for the first time in history many in our military did not have a private and SECRET vote... you DO know what that means if you are in a combat zone, don't you?

[sadiesworld]

25. You had "support the troops" days?!

Must of missed those.

[nickinSTL]

44. Wasn't there a story

about troops' votes going through the Pentagon? Electronically?

Maybe I have this wrong, but if so, don't believe 70% for *

[NewYorkerfromMass]

26. Then there need to be 17,000 outstanding military ballots

we'll see.

[robbedvoter]

3. Why depressed? Look at the pretty colors:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=11874&mesg_id=17986&page=

[WheresWaldo]

6. the pretty colors are fucking me up...

thanks for the post, I'm feeling less depressed, more angry. Cant we do anything?

[robbedvoter]

12. Unfortunately, Dems ignored it when they still had any clouts

It sank us like quick sand. No one can bring change now - not legislatively.
Kerry's famous last words:

"I have no time for those crying for lost elections"
Campaign trail - 2003

[demjomr313]

35. can't we? - especially

when WE seem to be the ones who actually KNOW WHY we voted the way we did or didn't. ask a bushified citizen and they have NO clue - they say "i don't want to talk about it" - :wtf:

[WheresWaldo]

4. same here...

Wisconsin went red, alas

[Dhalgren]

5. I hate to bring this up, but

if every Nader vote had gone to Kerry, he would have won. I am not a Nader basher, because I think that if any citizen is in a position where he or she cannot vote their convictions, then it's no democracy. However, the numbers will fuel anti-Ralph feelings everywhere... *sigh*

[WheresWaldo]

7. Nader made little to no difference...

the folks voting for nader would've lilely voted for any third party candidate

[Dhalgren]

13. I am just saying that the percentages

that Kerry lost by in several states were smaller than the percentage Ralph got in those states. That's all...

[robbedvoter]

14. Not true, really. In Florida Diebold pumped him some votes

24,000 - last I checked on election night - may be much more by now.

[robbedvoter]

27. Not that he didn't try (NH looked like 2000 for a while)

My point is - BFEE propped his run for a more devious reason - in Dem strongholds, Diebold shifted some votes his way. A useful diversion.

[jman0]

9. wisconsin

I think that website is pro Bush.
At www.madison.com the Wisconsin State Journal says the state went for Kerry.

[still_one]

15. I hope you are right, or I will lose a lot more faith in people

[Kukesa]

22. Good point, but Nader was NOT on the ballot here in Ohio. n/t

[FlaGranny]

23. Not this time, but if Nader hadn't

run in 2000 we wouldn't be having this dimwit as president NOW. I realize Nader wasn't the only factor and perhaps the voter fraud in 2000 would have still made doofus president even if Nader hadn't gotten the votes he did in Florida. Nevertheless, I hope to never see his name on a ballot again.

[carpediem]

10. I'm confused - that link goes to an election morning projection

has Wisconsin really gone red post-election? last I heard they had gone to Kerry.

[L84TEA]

16. thats not a correct map....

something is wrong

[YankInLondon]

17. That was the RCP PROJECTED count.

Not the results of the election. Wisconsin, to the best of my knowledge, is still blue.

Why did Kerry lose, btw? The Republicans mounted the most successful GOTV operation in history. If the Democrats had mounted the same kind of operation--where they got ALL of their voters to the polls--they would have won Ohio, Florida, or both.

It sucks to lose but Dems will help themselves if they realize they can learn a lot from what the Republicans did this year. Dems are stuck in this mode of thinking that elections are about a candidate standing on a box, looking into a camera, and saying, "Please vote for me".

It's not like that anymore. The Republicans have invented a new kind of retail politics where the wall between candidate and voter is stripped away (Republicans in Florida and Ohio targeted EACH voter as an individual, their operation was that intense).

To those who think the election was stolen. I don't think that occurred. Even if it did, though, the above still stands--the Dems simply have to create a better machine to manage campaigns on all levels.

Groups like DU are the future of politics. The Dems will do better if we all demand that they create a better organization and are willing to participate.

Kerry ran a good campaign. Voters did their jobs. We lost the race at this intermediate level (and can fix the problem if we're honest and own up to it).

[Dhalgren]

20. I heard a republican operative on NPR this morning

say that the way the GOP galvanized their base was by putting hot-button issues on the ballot. Like gay marriage and things like that. This got the knuckle draggers to the polls and while they were there they voted for Caligula. The Democrats need to come up with ballot issues that will motivate people who are Dem-leaning to get to the polls. That was a clever idea - those pesky Imperial Republican Guards...

[LisaL]

21. Yep. Gay marriage ban in OH passed by a huge margin.

That means all the God fearing religious fanatics claimed out from under their rocks or whatever other place they were hiding under. The amendment passed overwhelmingly. Apparently, my state is full of people who couldn't care less if they have jobs or medical care, as long as two gays aren't allowed to marry, whole world can go to hell.

[Oak2004]

24. Take a look at the states where fraud was predicted BEFORE the election

and where anomalous results were found AFTER the election.

Our fellow citizens did not elect Bush. They came out for Kerry.

This is not tinfoil hat stuff here. Put down the anti-tinfoil shielding and pick up your statistics book. Then get off your duff and start working to save democracy, NOW.

[robbedvoter]

28. But how? Legistation is made by people in power - and it ain't us.

Dems chose to igore the problem when they still had some power - too late now.

[teh636]

29. I'm afraid that...

Bush won the popular vote by over 3.5 million. Thats hardly fraud or a fluke. Thats the people voiceing their opinion. Kerry lost and not by a small margin.

[Lucypher]

31. read this to see how they padded the popular vote.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=19390&mesg_id=19390

[leftynyc]

41. They are also the same states where the

exit polls didn't match the results. I'm convinced of fraud.

[Generator]

30. Whose side are you on?????

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/WI/

Wisconsin is blue.

[cubsfan forever]

36. Yup, leftyandproud, read the CNN results:

it has WI as Kerry Blue (50-49). Sorry.

Professor 2

[cubsfan forever]

32. realclearpolitics is a RW haven

for Nazi push pollers. Check out their "endorsers."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Presidential_04/RCP_Electoral_Count_Final.html

Professor 2

[demjomr313]

33. that was a depressing map

:grr:

[MallRat]

34. WI is projected blue in most maps. Why is this one red? n/t

[cubsfan forever]

37. Read post #32

Professor 2

[carolinalady]

38. that is a projected map from 11/02 in the am!!!! Look again.

[5by5]

42. Yep!

Pretty accurate too. They must have had advance knowledge of the Repug black operations.

[Zen Democrat]

43. Bogus! This is the election morning final projection. Not real results.

We took Wisconsin.

[progressivebydesign]

45. RealClearPolitics IS A RIGHT WING SITE!

why do you post this shit?

[movie_girl99]

46. send it to Randi...she'll be all over it ..n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. She just covered exactly what votes were not counted

You guessed it.. MILITARY BALLOTS.