LA Times says Washington state might have a re-vote in 2005...

[msongs]

In today's paper, an article about the Washington results states that the Washington legislature can and might order a state wide re-vote for governor if necessary! Now that might be in order for Ohio as well.
Doncha think?

Msongs
Riverside CA
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[GetTheRightVote]

1. This state is truly settin the stage for much more in the election

hmmmmmmmm

:bounce:

[read the law first]

7. A state-wide revote is a virtual certainty

The only thing that can stop it is if one candidate decides to pack up and go home.

[Diane R]

9. There will NOT be a revote.

I live in Washington state. The election is over.

She won. She won with the misplaced ballots and won she without them.

The Republicans are now saying they want every vote to count. Which is something they fought for 6 weeks. Today they brought in 91 'military' ballots that were postmarked after the election, and wanted them to be counted...the same kind of ballots they argued against including last week (they won the argument and they weren't counted).

Democrats control both houses of the Washington legislature. The republican Secretary of State says the election is finished. During the hand recount, every ballot counted was witnessed by a democrat and a republican. Disputed ballots have been accepted or rejected.

I cannot imagine why they think they will get another election. There certainly is nothing being said on our news stations about a recount. The public will be very opposed to the idea; 130 votes is a lot more than the 42 that Rossi thought gave him a clear victory.

[read the law first]

11. a good election lawyer can find 130 illegal votes in her sleep.

Everybody keeps forgetting that the big deal in an election contest is the margin. Big margin = hard to set aside. Small margin = easy to set aside. All you have to show to win a contest is more illegal votes or unlawful ballots than a margin.

Once you meet that burden, a new election is REQUIRED.

This is gonna be a long one. If I were you, I'd give some money to the party in Washington 'cause the pukes are going to come after this election and contest it (unless Rossi decides to pack up and go home).

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. Well remember what the repugs said in 2000?

Get over it.

[Carolab]

21. Whose side are you on?

Gregoire won. No one found 130 illegal votes. Those votes were completely LEGAL and it was not the fault of the voters nor of Christine Gregoire that they were "misplaced".

The Repigs trying to count ballots that were postmarked AFTER the election would be counting illegal votes.

[read the law first]

27. ok. if you insist.

How many felons? How many with wrong signatures? How many assisted with absentee ballots who didn't sign? How many assisted too many people in executing absentee ballots? How many people voted in precincts from whence they had moved? How many college kids have out of state tags on their cars (to get in state tuition where they go to school) but voted in their home precincts? How many people are registered in two states? How many people voted both absentee and at a precinct? How many people voted in precincts that don't match the address on their driver's licenses? How many people got divorced since they registered and didn't register at their new address? How many people got married since the registered and didn't register at their new address? How many people cast absentee ballots and then died before election day? How many people were convicted of felonies between the time that they registered and the time that they voted? How many people requested absentee ballots from prison? How many people have been granted guardians since they registered but still voted? How many people were assisted in casting absentee ballots from nursing homes while they were asleep? How many absentee ballots were delivered by "bundlers"? How many absentee ballots were delivered by non-family members?

Answer: More than 130.

You need to give money to the Democratic Party in Washington 'cause this thing ain't over.

[read the law first]

12. One time I had a candidate who didn't want to contest, so I just drafted..

One time I had a candidate who didn't want to contest, so I just drafted an elector to be the one to contest. The party didn't want it, the candidate didn't want it, but we did it anyway because we could.

[pa28]

13. How do you figure that?

Gregoire has won. Period.

[read the law first]

15. Cause I've farted election contests with margins bigger than 130.

That's how.

[pa28]

16. Classy.

[read the law first]

28. I even cleaned it up from the way that the phrase is normally stated.

Think whatever gets you through the night, but it ain't over and it's going to be a long fight.

[googly]

33. ARe the repugs gonna ask to count machine rejected votes in

other counties or has this been done already? Anybody know??

[read the law first]

37. Good question but I don't know.

I think it's time to stop counting.

[read the law first]

42. They would have to know that they would lose the revote.

So they might spend their time on the count and not the contest. A contest is cheaper and easier but it only gets you a new election, one that they have to know that they would lose. So maybe they will concentrate on the counting.

[Carolab]

23. Get lost. n/t

[read the law first]

34. The difference between ignorant people and stupid people is....

what they do with information when it is provided to them.

Ignorant people can be made not ignorant by providing them with information which they process to better inform themselves and which they use to lift themselves out of their ignorance. Stupid people can not be made not stupid by providing them with informaton because they lack the capacity to inform themselves.

Accordingly, "ignorant" is not necessarily a slur if it is used in the context of "uninformed" or "lacking in direct experience." However, stupid people will never improve. They will remain stupid regardless of the amount of information provided to them.

Ignorant people usually have a thirst for knowledge. Stupid people just stand on the side of the road and throw rocks at passing cars.

[bemis12]

2. It ain't happening

That election is now over, and Gregoire won. The Republican Sec of State has said "It's over".

[PROGRESSIVE1]

3. She has a mandate too!

[msongs]

5. after all that happened, she has an

OVERWHELMING mandate of bibilical proportions, epic, historically significant...

probably only because the repubs looked at what they wanted to say, decided it would be used against them in Ohio if they said it, and fell on the sword to protect the bush regime from future unpleasantness.

Now is that Rovian enuff for you :-0

Msongs
riverside CA

http://www.msongs.com/images/bush-xmas.htm

[Oversea Visitor]

4. Ahhhhh....

What a nice precedent.... A face saving move all round for everyone.... Haha 2004 revote that will be nice.

[Pirate Smile]

6. In a revote (if it would ever happen) wouldn't many of the 60,000 that

voted for the Libertarian now vote for Gregoire?

[baba]

8. I don't know...

I had a (very liberal) friend who voted Libertarian because she didn't like either Gregiore or Rossi. So many of hem might sit this one out.

[Jax]

10. We have the Legislature here

Democrats control the House and Senate.

And now we have the Governor.

Jax

[Diane R]

14. Washington is deep, deep blue..

Two women Democratic Senators, Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell. A woman Democratic Governor, Christine Gregoire. Both chambers of the legislature are controlled by Democrats. And, the majority leader of the Senate is a woman, Lisa Brown!!!!

[caligirl]

17. Got this email action alert from Progressive Majority in Wa

Everyone at Progressive Majority has gone home for the holidays, and I just couldn't leave without making sure that all of our members learned about what's happening in the Washington State Governor's race because we can make a difference.

For months, the Right has been calling on Chris Gregoire to concede before all the votes are counted. They've gone to court to prevent the counting of more than 700 valid ballots from King County. But just recently we've found out that none of that matters, because even without those votes, Gregoire has won the hand recount.

Now it's time for Dino Rossi to concede. The right wing in Washington up to the same dirty tricks that the right wing in Florida used in 2000 and we must stop them. They have had their moment in the sun, declaring an early victory and crying foul at every turn. But now we know that the true results, even on their terms, will make Chris Gregoire the next governor of Washington. She promised that if she lost the hand recount, she would concede gracefully. Let's send a message to Dino Rossi demanding that he do the same thing:

http://involve.progressivemajority.org/ctt.asp?u=194589...

Progressive Majority fought hard to elect progressive champions to the Washington state legislature. Together, we took back the state senate. We cannot -- and will not -- stand by and let those gains be canceled by the right wing's well-oiled machine attempting to steal this election.

Dean M. Nielsen
Washington State Director
Progressive Majority

P.S. - This is going to be decided in hours so I urge you to act quickly... we must increase public pressure so that local officials know that progressives support every vote being counted. Tell a friend to take action too!

Click here and tell your friends to take action: http://involve.progressivemajority.org/ctt.asp?u=194589...




Paid for by Progressive Majority, www.progressivemajority.org, and not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

caligirl

[zimba]

18. Ah, the irony of it all. First

they (repubs) said that the margin was to great for Gregoire to win so why waste taxpayer money for first recount. Then they said that theres been a recount and you still lost so dont waste taxpayer money on a second recount. Now they lose and they think its time to fork out TONS of taxpayer money for a total revote. What a bunch of clowns.

[googly]

32. Nobody said Repugs were consistent!

They just stick their finger in the anus and hold it up
in the air to see which way the wind is blowing.

[understandinglife]

20. For reasons obvious to many here, I truly hope the Republicans...

....demand a re-vote. I hope they scream for a re-vote. I hope they spend tons of money on advertising claiming the need for a re-vote.

Encourage them to do just that.

Peace.

[IndyPriest]

22. Yes, I truly understand the desire to take the win and run...

but the precendent for a state-wide recount, in the current contest in OH, would be VERY helpful. There's no way Gregoire will lose the revote.

[publius_jr]

25. "There's no way Gregoire will lose the revote." Yeah...

What, is this doublespeak I hear in your voice, my friend? A few notes to clarify what may not be so clarion to some:

1. Yes, I agree, that more people will intend to vote for Gregoire than $REP.
2. But we have learned that "intention" is of dreamy shape, in truth irrelevant, yet nevertheless believed in by us people (well not US, but you know...) & strategically congealed by the power-holders (cf. HAVA).
3. So Stalin's dictum holds; the counter's will >> the people's.
4. Thus, considering the Republican's counting monopoly, we conclude, "There's no way Gregoire will win the revote."
5. And phrased in doublespeak, we achieve your brief assertion, appeasing to the credulous public as well as those deciphering doublespeakers, that "There's no way Gregoire will lose the revote."


And as to your first sentence, which asserts that a WA recount would establish an important precedent for OH, I hope you were also in the Orwellian mindset when you wrote it. First, there is no legal basis for a recount. What, this vote is flawed because the intention of the voters actually reared its ugly face? How can you build a precedent upon such an idea? No. What we want is actually the inverse of this. We want a legally based recount in OH, one based upon the simple idea that the intention of the voters is what matters & one that establishes the precedent that fraud will be rooted from the grip of those Republican vote-counters. Or mapped onto the doublespeakean domain, "Yes, I truly understand the desire to take the win and run but the precedent for a state-wide recount, in the current contest in OH, would be VERY helpful."

N.B. This post was intended just for neophytes to doublespeak. I carefully weighed the benefit of introducing doublespeak to newbies vs. the detriment of wasting the experienced's time & found in favor of the former, as evidenced by the presence of this post, only the second of mine to pass this stringent cost/benefit analysis.

[understandinglife]

26. Like I said: "I hope the Republicans scream RE_VOTE" (n/t)

[IndyPriest]

30. Um, no. I'm not accustomed to doublespeaking.

I do not doubt the long learning curve among Republicans, so I don't doubt they would try the rig a revote. I am also not doubting what the Democrats have just learned from their experience in WA -- they can beat it. If you're suggesting that the Repubs will be even craftier in their second try, that's possible. But after what WA has gone through with them, I can't imagine the citizens, the courts, or the legislature not being prepared for it. What I'm saying is that the Dem-controlled state will make sure of a fair election. That may seem polyanna-ish to you, but it is not doublespeak -- if I understand your "argument" at all.

In THAT context -- a fair revote -- do you doubt Gregoire would win? And in the context of the contest in OH, do you think the expreience of the country seeing one of its states accomplish a revote would NOT be useful?

In the OH context, the REASON why the experience of a revote MAY be useful is BECAUSE an honest RECOUNT there now seems impossible, given the intervention of Triad. The only possibility NOW of a fair RECOUNT in OH is a complete handcount. And given the political leadership in OH, as opposed to WA, a complete handcount doesn't seem possible.

But the new lawsuits in OH may make a lot of this moot. It looks like Kerry is going right after proof of criminal fraud in OH. If that suit gets legs, and I think it will, it will probably be the Congress facing the tough spot of dealing with a slate of OH electors fraudulently chosen.

[read the law first]

31. Gregoire will win a revote.

Absolutely.

In the blue, blue State of Washington. Absolutely.

[publius_jr]

39. Everything you feel, I feel with you,...

optimism (in the basic goodness of humanity)? check.
hope (that Kerry's intervention actually intervenes)? check.

But there are some matters in which, I must say, we disagree.

1. You imply in your second sentence a sort of duality between Rupublicans on one side & Democrats on the other, each checking each other, & with such checks deleting any malevolence towards us people. You say the Democrats "can beat it," i.e. the fraud. But I say we must eliminate this so-called battle between Republicans & Democrats, for there is no battle. There are as many good Republicans as there are Democrats, & and as many ill-hearted Democrats as Republicans. Our problem is that we are just off the heels of a good Democrat and running into the toe-nails of a bad Republican. But we should not extrapolate the virtues or vices of our leaders onto our people, although I will admit than anyone who voted for Bush on Nov. 2 was either ignorant of malevolent. The problem is so complex that, in fact, I cannot support it here for time's sake. Let me merely hypothesize that there is collusion between the bad Republicans & the bad Democrats, while at the same time the good Democrats have been set against the good Republicans.

2. Regarding a fair vote, I have no faith that one can be held under present circumstances. I had no idea what Polyanna meant, but when I looked it up on m-w.com (the capital needed), I was excited to confirm my sense of your optimism in a word that you used. But I think there is a difference between the will of good people & the will of our counters.

3. And I still doubt the utility of a WA revote for OH. This is because, as I said, a WA revote would be based against the will of us people & an OH revote would, in my mind, be based upon that great will of us people.

But despite our disagreements so far, I am glad to find in you a friend & another addendum to my great list of good people against my scant list of the bad.

===========
edit: homonym sp. err.

[IndyPriest]

43. Ah, I think I'm getting the gist

Thanks for coming back.

About 1. Yes, sad to say, I think there probably is collusion between bad Dems and bad Repubs. And Yes, good Dems have been set against good Repubs. And that DOES make the context difficult of a truly bipartisan support for the people. Absolutely.

About 2. Yes, there certainly IS a difference between the will of good people and the will of the counters! But -- you're right, I'm an optimist -- I think there is a pretty good chance of a fair election in the WA circumstances BECAUSE of what they've just been through. I think the SIGN of that is that the Repub candidate will step aside, knowing there's no chance in THESE circumstances for him to win.

About 3. And Yes, IF the revote were constructed as a slap against the people's vote, I'd be absolutely against it. MY hunch is, though, that the people MAY want to revote just to say even more loudly what they have been wanting to say: Gregoire is our governor!

Glad to correspond with you!

[read the law first]

29. Bingo! We have a winner! Good job. You are absolutely correct.

:toast:

[IndyPriest]

36. Why, thank you, rtlf...

Can I choose my own prize? I'd like a fine cigar!

[read the law first]

38. Davidov (sp?) or better.

You earned it! Prost!

:toast:

[IndyPriest]

40. Davidoff?! I haven't had one of those beauts in years! n/t

[read the law first]

41. I LOVE 'em. The budweiser king of cigars.

Probably should learn how to spell the name, though.

[Patsy Stone]

35. A(freakin')men. Let's go... n/t

[Dolphyn]

24. Don't forget what happened in California 2002-2003

Democrat Gray Davis won re-election in 2002. I guess the Republicans weren't satisfied with the result, so they engineered a screwy recall election in 2003 to bring us Gov Schwarzenegger. Those people will stop at nothing.
:grr: