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Do the Dems need to move further to the right or the left?

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George_Bonanza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:28 PM
Original message
Do the Dems need to move further to the right or the left?
These are idiotic times where a borderline draft dodger is seen as a more honest and brave man than a Vietnam vet. These are idiotic times when making sure Adam and Steve, who live 1000 miles away, cannot get married is more important than securing a sound financial future for their children.

So during these dark times, what can the Dems do? If they move to the left and come out full tilt for gay marriage, higher taxes, etc., is there an electorate out there to push them over all the braindead social conservatives? Or do they have to basically nominate a pro-choice Republican?
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. I dont know
I am just pissed that we wont have Kerry because truthfully he was never ABB just for me, he was a man who I would have loved to see become president. Sigh its a shame.
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jfk2004 Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. Democrat party needs to move away from 90s CLINTONISM, revert to
Democrat party needs to move out of 90s hedonism and Clintonism and revert to its John F. Kennedy glorydays, where men, and yes WHITE MEN were proud to be democrats and liberals had the higher moral and physical ground. Conservatives have branded democrats bunch of pu$$ies and effeminates and it's gonna take a major image change.

For starters, democrats need to understand and *address* the concerns addressed by the conservatives, ie terrorism, war, what future of the world should be etc. I'm afraid many democrats don't understand that healthcare doesn't matter to people if they think they could be killed by terrorists soon.

Also you have to take on the southern right wing, not cater to its agenda. You have to take them on from a position of STRENGTH and POWER the way lincoln did and the way Kennedy did. I mean you have to PROVE why liberal system of thought & organization is ultimately more powerful. You have to beat them at their own game.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. move left and do the hard work of creating...
...a liberal constituency from the grass roots-- just like the repigs did from the right. Plan on taking 20 years to make it a juggernaut. A progressive, liberal force for change.

Or go for cheap, quick election gratification and become repukes. I'm for moving left.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. Left ...
Edited on Wed Nov-03-04 10:34 PM by RoyGBiv
FAR left. Radicalized and angry.

OnEdit: I am more of a centrist overall, very liberal socially, moderate economically. But, not anymore. When I pull my ass out of this depression I am in, I will awake with a new sense of purpose, a new set of values, and a mandate of my own.

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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
21. Yep.
Just how much further right do we go.

Kerry supporting this goddamn war from the getgo. Actually PRAISING the idiot when all dems should have kept their friggin mouths SHUT.

But first, the Democratic Party must learn the definition of the word "opposition".

I'm afraid this is the first time since way before 1972 when I first voted that I'm considering leaving these wimps and voting my CONSCIENCE instead of SETTLING FOR WHAT I DON'T COMPLETELY SUPPORT.

NO MORE COMPROMISES - we lost with that for the last 3 elections in a row - it can't be any worse.
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JFW Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. yep
..
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. Frankly I think north to Canada sounds real good
And with that, this nightmare,nightmare after a nightmare of a day I'm concluding my DU obsession. Good God, it's never ending.
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Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
52. LOL. nt
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pelonetillo Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. We need to remain as we are and motivate others...
Edited on Wed Nov-03-04 10:38 PM by pelonetillo
To get off their asses and make a difference. We are the majority, people - we ARE "the people." We've always been and always will be, once we realize the power we take for granted, we'll prevent these backwards scumbags to ever take control of our country.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. Lie, Cheat and Steal? That would work.
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sweetladybug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. It don't matter if Democrats move left or right. The Republican control
and own the news media and radio so our voice WILL NOT be heard. WE ARE SCREWED!
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JJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Bingo
eom
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Royal Observer Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
38. We got Michael Moore.
People listen to him.
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. The strategy should be how to sell the current agenda to the sheeple
Let's face it - many of the things the Democratic party advocates should please many conservatives.

First off, the modern day Democratic party is actually pretty conservative fiscally, or at least moreso than Bush is. Balanced budget? Eliminating the deficit? Less waste? What fiscal conservative would have a problem with that?

How about the mantra of less government? Want the government out of people's bedrooms? Value your privacy? Sick of the government meddling in your business? Sounds like the Democrats to me. And it also describes Goldwater conservatives.

You value morals? Go to church. Nobody's stopping you. At least the government wouldn't stop you from worshipping however you want. Do we need the government telling us how to worship? The Democrats don't think so, and I don't see how hard it would be to sell this to evangelicals. Abortion? Bet most of the morality Republicans don't realize that the abortion rate rose dramatically under Bush, and declined under Clinton. Know why? It's all about the economy. When the economy sucks, women sometimes have to make choices they would rather not make. If you're anti-abortion, how about giving women one less reason to get one.

How about strong defense? Clinton won in Kosovo. How's Bush doing in Iraq? How secure is Afghanistan?

Terrorism? Remember when the Clinton administration acted on intelligence warning of a potential millenium New Years Day attack? It was stopped at the Canadian border. Did Bush act on his intelligence briefings?

Honesty? Sure, Clinton lied about a blow job, but his dishonesty didn't kill 1100 US soldiers.

See? Could it really be that tough to sell to the wingnuts? Unless the only thing they respond to is fear, then the DNC needs to alter its message a bit. Otherwise, I think a so-called liberal message could be sold to the conservative crowd. If people really knew about, say, the PNAC, I think they could be swayed to our side.

Above all, the Democratic party has to make it cool to vote Democratic. Most Republicans seem set in their ways, and think it would be a sin to vote for anyone with a (D) by their name. We need to change this mindset.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. Great post. One problem. LOGIC and REASON don't work with the koolaid
crowd.

We are in a similar shape to the German People during the rise of Hitler.

It becomes more aparent every day.

The fucking idiots said they didn't even know when the ovens were in their fucking backyards!

Why does anyone think that today's amerikkkan sheeple are any different? They've PROVEN their exactly the same.
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sarahlee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. You want to be a Republican?
Move to the right and you are a Republican. Just join their party.

I want to be part of a real opposition party.
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Ravenseye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. fuck moving further right
The democratic party isn't even a liberal party anymore.

move it back to the left and take time to build it.
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Royal Observer Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
40. Yeah but;
there are those that want to win the next election. Being leftwing and losing doesn't appeal to some people. Hillary can run to the right of the next Repub candidate and beat him.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. would we have carried ohio and florida by moving left?
those were the two most conservative of the "persudable" states...
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
13. Winning and Losing
Edited on Wed Nov-03-04 11:18 PM by RGBolen
It may or may not be moving to the right or left. I personally am on the right, more center right in the Democratic Party but moderate none the less. I didn't vote for Kerry in the primary but had no problem voting for and supporting him for president. However I voted more against Bush than for Kerry and there lies the problem. I am sure that I am not alone in this. Kerry was not an inspiring figure. Presidental elections are won in the middle, every candidate moderates after winning their nomination. The middle is defined differently every election, Reagan Democrats, Soccar Moms, Security Moms, whatever you want to call them. It's the middle and upper middle class in the suburbs.

They are both Democrats and Republicans, tend to be educated and usually pretty moderate, they are fiscally to the right of center and socially to the left of center. These are the people that Clinton and Reagan won their two terms on. Clinton kept the "we vs. them" campaign theme but he was able to connect with and convince the middle that the we line is above them, which it is.

I believe that we will do much better with a more moderate nomine in 2008. However, an inspiring liberal can win. But they do have to be someone that is just that. The likablity factor comes into play, this was an early signal, Bush came across as a likable guy to the middle in the American public and Kerry not as likable. I heard so many Democratic leaders playing this off saying we are not electing a friend. Well that is not all that true in the mind of many voters. Liking and not liking someone goes along way in the mind of thousands and thousands of non-political voters. We have to remember most are not politically active, that to many people the D or R on their voter card doesn't carry much passion with it.

Bottom line is, I personally think we are better off with a "Clinton" Democrat running, and probably best with that candidate being a southerner. But a liberal that can inspire the public can still win.
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Viking12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
14. Move any further right you can forget me. Left can win.
Edited on Wed Nov-03-04 11:44 PM by Viking12
We are losing because we are playing Repug-lite. Why vote for a cheap substitute when you can have the real thing. No offense meant to JK. He was liberal enough for this leftist, but he sure didn't play one on TV.

I would not have supported a "jomentum" candidacy.
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athena Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
33. Left
Why vote for a cheap substitute when you can have the real thing

Exactly. The Democratic party will never be conservative enough for the people who just voted for the shrub.
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ciaobox Donating Member (796 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
16. Listen to Mike Malloy tonight
It's the machines. Not the Dems. The Dems are right in the center where they should be. We don't need to change OURSELVES. We need to change the process. We need state houses. Plain and simple.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
17. left and don't waffle about it, don't be ashamed about it
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cyr330 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
18. They better not move any further to the right
If they do, they'll lose me forever-- more to the right and they may as well be Republicans.
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lpricanprynces Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
19. Appeal to priorities over pocketbooks
Think of how many people that voted republican strictly because of their pocketbook. I'm guessing 1/3 to 1/2 of their vote. We need to focus people that "priorities" are more important than pocketbook. Hell, I know a VERY wealthy gay man who voted republican simply for financial reasons. I questioned him on it, and he had the attitude that Bush couldn't really hurt him on any social issues, but he could help him on financial issues. Those are the people we need to reach out to.
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silvershadow Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
23. we dont need to move any direction
we need to hold steady to our principles, which I dare say are the very principles this country was founded on. I am tired to Dems trying to be like repubs.
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
24. There is no left or right
It's what's right and wrong. I think what we need to do is to start pushing the agenda that is the right thing to do for the future, for equal rights, for every American to be able to live the way that is stated in the United States Constitution.
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
25. dems should never sacrifice our principles to win...after all, that
is what Repuke bastards do!
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
26. left
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cheezus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
27. NEITHER -- a return to populism
we can fight the culture war outside of politics. We need to win back our working class base by fighting the class war.
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Royal Observer Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
41. Win back those who
work hard and play by the rules. Clinton did it.
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
28. LEFT...Either re-embrace FDR or revolt. I won't go right.
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The Chronicler Donating Member (678 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
29. right
center really.
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Senior citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
30. They can't move any further to the right.

The Democratic Party already supports the war in Iraq.

Supporting an unjustified war based on lies is as far right as you can go. That's the puke position and the Dems support it.

But as one of the two major corporate parties, the Dems also cannot move any further to the left. Their corporate bosses won't permit it.

We've been suckered again.

The 2-party system sucks because it doesn't exist--there is only one major party, the corporate/fascist party, and it has two major camps, the pukes and the Dems. If you haven't read "Indispensable Enemies," by Walter Karp, I suggest you do so.

As for all the Nader-haters here, Nader is against the war, against corporate control of government, and in favor of environmental conservation and sane economic policies. If that's a reason to hate him, go right ahead.

This election, like the one in 2000, was stolen. But neither election was stolen by Nader. Both were stolen by the corporate parties working together, the pukes stealing electoral votes through BBV, voter disenfranchisement, and other types of fraud, and the Dems by validating and submitting to the theft. It is called bi-partisanship. It means that both parties care about power, and neither of them gives a damn about you.


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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
31. Neither right nor left, but deeper
I think Kerry was "positioned" appropriately enough, but we as Dems need to go deeper in two ways.

DEEPER ORGANIZATIONALLY
If it was the community found in evangelical churches that found Bush an extra few million votes, we need an equivalent community. Our organizational equivalents are MoveOn, MeetUps, and DU. But they are less centralized than churches. They require more effort from the individuals involved. We fell a little short.

I think what we need is a more "boots on the ground" mentality. We need to proselytize and mobilize. We cannot sit on DU in the months and days before an election and fool ourselves into thinking we are activists. Next time, each and every one of us -- not some of us, or most of us, but all of us -- needs to plan on having an unpaid part time job in the three months before the election.

DEEPER MORALLY
Say what you will about Jimmy Carter, but he tied his faith to liberal policies and the country understood. The right has no monopoly on moral values. As we know, plenty of their policies and actions are downright immoral. We need to re-take the high ground on morality.

We need a candidate who can inspire people on a deeper level -- a sort of spiritual inspiration if you will, that offers liberal ideals not just as intelligent policy but as the proper course for a morally correct country.
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sallydallas124 Donating Member (234 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
32. stop trying to appeal to other people
Apply the pricipal - you have to change yourself before you can change the world - to an organization. First of all
we have to come together and ask ourselves - what do WE stand for?
It may even have to be written down in one place. When we know what we all collectively believe in then we can act based on these beliefs. It may not even involve government action but more grassroots activities designed to help ourselves and others.
I believe that if we can come up with an organization that's based in truth and does good, others will just naturally gravitate towards it. As it is with the individual, you really don't get far when you try to please others over yourself, and act based on what's going to get you the most friends rather than convictions.
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Mist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
34. Maybe it's time to get out of the Dem/Repub paradigm
The Democratic party started making itself Repub. Lite in the 80's. The reason I'm an unaffiliated voter (who votes Democratic) is that I don't want to be a member of a party whose rallying cry is "Not nearly as bad for you as the Republicans." Yeah, I vote Democratic because I want to have some say as a citizen, but hasn't the Democratic Party become something other than genuinely democratic the last couple of decades? Old wood out, new wood in.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
35. The left needs to divorce itself from the Democatic Party....
and let the "conservatives" fight it out for the White House and we throw our support behind the one that we then find most favorable.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
36. No, they just need to stand their ground and FIGHT nt
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qwlauren35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
37. Move right.
The Republicans have changed, so we can change as well. They USED to be the fiscal conservatives... but they aren't any more. They are just the tax cutters... and as you've seen, then they overspend. We will always be able to point to Clinton's historic surplus.

The Republicans will always support big business, and the Democrats will always champion the underdog. I think this is good, also.

HOWEVER, there is nothing wrong with the Democrats representing a nation that is majority Christian. 78%, last time I checked. The longer we ignore this, the worse for us. We don't need to keep thumbing our noses at Christian requests to worship as they see fit. We've taken this separation of church and state too far, and virtually BANNED Christianity, when in fact, it is our nation's predominant religion.

No wonder we didn't get elected!

We need to find ways to embrace Christianity while still affirming our beliefs in tolerance for American diversity in race, gender, creed, AND sexual orientation.

I wouldn't call this a Republican agenda AT ALL.
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Gyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. With 'all due respect', you're nuts!
Instead of "embracing Christianity", why don't we (all of us REAL AMERICANS) go together to da ribber, and "embrace" The Constitution; which directs that the American government isn't to further, or hinder, the free practice of the religion of your choice.

"Virtually BANNED Christianity"??? Wonder if you ever listen to yourself? Can you articulate how "We've...virtually banned Christianity" in this country?

Gyre
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Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #42
53. No kidding. We'll said. nt
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Royal Observer Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
39. The Vietnam War is over.
For better or worse, very few voters care what anybody did back then.
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Burn The Bushes Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
43. Everyone Has A Hot Button,
and we seem to push them all. I want to scratch out my own eyes when I stop to consider that there are folks who can't comprehend that there is no downside to allowing gay marriage. I want to scream when people can't step out of their own comfortable shoes to imagine a situation where abortion might be the only answer. I want to cry when I think that people in this country don't understand the importance of the separation of church and state when we're in a world where governments do horrid, disgraceful things in the name of gods.

Of course, this is where the "but" comes into play.

Imagine for a moment that you have a room filled with 10 white men, the very group that gave Bush his victory. Now, two of them are dead set against gay marriage, so they walk out of the room when you mention that issue. Three more want abortion banned, and they leave when you talk about the health of the mother. Two are from the bible belt and want prayer in schools and the Ten Commandments outside the courthouse, so they walk out when you say that God has no place in government.

Now you're in a room with three guys. Hell, if they are on your side on all three of these key wedge issues, you probably don't even need to say another word. They're liberal-minded folks like you and me. They're our base, and they don't need any convincing.

The problem is that you're still going to lose 7-3. You've already lost the election. Kerry's aim was to tell the other seven guys that they should ignore the wedge issues and vote for him because of what he would do in other areas.

There's some logic to that. Health care for all Americans should trump a person's pro-life stance. The desire for having a good-paying job should be more important than any belief that gay marriage is immoral. The logic says that people should look at the issues and pick the democrats because they offer hope and promise.

Logic would tell you that might work, but at least four of the seven guys are going to refuse to change their perspectives. Most likely, two of them won't even listen. The best you can do is a split.

Therein lies the problem for the democratic party. I believe strongly in many of the liberal causes, but the other side has built a huge lead by tapping into those voters who are willing to vote based upon a single wedge issue. Therefore, the more issues that the democratic party adopts, the more people who will be turned off. When you take a hard chance on an issue, you're going to lose the complete opportunity to attrach some votes. If you keep the focus on health care, you're going to have all 10 guys listening. When you start delving into wedge issues, however, people will start turning around and walking away.

It's almost a no-win situation. That Gore and Kerry were able to nearly pull off victories is astounding. It speaks well to the great ideas and the wide-reaching sense of hope they were able to bring to their respective campaigns. But they're never going to change that Republican fundamentalist's mind. It's why we hate them so much. They're so thick-headed they don't see the forest for the trees. Our anger only widens the divide, and our offer of a handshake bridges none of the gaps they perceive. We might have the best ideas for health care that the world has ever known, but we're still baby killers. We're still atheists. We're still the devil.

They're never going to vote for us as long as we allow the Republican party and the media to define our party based upon wedge issues. The media hammers home that gay marriage is the greatest issue facing this country. But, if a gay couple has health insurance and a good income, that's not the case. Somewhere, there is a child starving, and that MUST take precedence.

We need to simplify our perspective to strengthen our base. Let gay marriage be an issue that we argue as a nation and not as a politicized and partisanized matter. We need to be more inclusive by being less inclusive. Gay marriage and abortion should not be the basis of a campaign. It didnt' work for Alan Keyes in Illinois, and it isn't working, generally, as the perceived focus of the democratic party. We do not need to champion everything in our efforts to gain votes. Sure, we can discuss these issues in Congress and we can fight a ban on abortion and we can fight a constitutional amendment on banning gay marriage, but we can't fight at all if we don't get into office.

John Kerry tried like hell to appeal to people by saying, 'I know you don't believe abortion should be legal, but you should still vote for me, and I'll tell you why." That didn't work. We have to drop to our knees and tell the voters that we're willing to bend a bit, that we're willing to reconsider issues based upon what our electorate believes is right. Kerry didn't do that, and that's why he seemed arrogant to a lot of people. It's why I seem arrogant to a lot of people who think I'm dead wrong about my liberal views on social and economic issues. Hell, I'm an atheist with strong dislike of religion. I'm pacifist who would never vote for a war. I recognize that I turn people off when I begin to talk politics. I know that I need to be more inclusive. I understand why someone might not be able to finish a meal after thinking about an aborted fetus. I realize why people put their faith in religion. It's a damned difficult world out there.

I also know that it's in my soul to make this a better world, and so I am willing to take a step to the right or at least separate my party a bit from the far, far left. Democrats are pissed off today, and I know why. The middle class American hoping for a little help with their health insurance premiums just got shafted because the Republican Party painted the democrats as a bunch of sexual deviants. We know that gay men wanting to live in happy unions aren't deviants any more than the real Republican Senate candidate in Illinois, but we shouldn't even be debating that. We should stay loyal to the moderates of our party. That is the majority of our party, and it has always been that way.

I don't want to break the far left off from our party, but it's worth considering that the Republican Party isn't inviting Alan Keyes to speak at its RNC Convention. He needs the Republican Party, and the far left needs the centrists—the base—of the democratic party. That's fine. I'm far left, and I'm willing to allow that it's better for me to have some of my needs met by being inclusive and welcoming people with differing views than it is to have George W. Bush in office, a man whose views are in opposition to mine nearly across the board.

We don't necessarily need to move to the right, but we need to redefine our image. It was the same thing that we said four years ago, but I see very little difference. The democratic party is still defined by wedge issues where it sides with the far left rather than with key issues that directly affect all Americans.

The Republican Party catered to the fundamentalists, but it also identified itself by saying it is the party that will ensure safety and freedom. They pledged to fight terrorists and keep people safe and put more money into people's pockets. The wedge issues feed them many voters, but it's not the face that they're trying to give their party. We know they're conniving buttheads ready to throw out Roe v Wade, but that's not why the independents and the undecideds and the moderats vote for them. They vote for them because they see the democrats as the party that caters to the far, far left.

It's why people were telling me they didn't think Kerry would have gone to Afghanistan. The image they see of all democrats is of the most radical leftists. People think everyone is picketing the WTO, and they don't even know what the initials stand for. But they know that the media reported that the police were needed to break up the crowds. They don't know the issues. They only know what is perceived to be the far left nature of the party.

I'm about as far to the left as you can go, but I realize that others aren't, and it's time that we let the younger generation know who we are. We need to educate people about what this party has meant to our country. We need to give this party a new face. If it means telling a reporter that gay marriage is not a political issue to be decided by laws but an issue to be decided by the courts, then that's what we do. And we leave it alone until we can come together as a nation and a party and make those decisions based upon an open discussion of what the majority wants.

The reality is that we know that the courts will side with us iand make gay marriage a human rights issue. But we can't do it if we can't get into office. And we can't hope to continue gaining votes if we cater to the interests of the far, far left against the wishes of the moderates whose vote we need most.

Democrats need to focus and keep it simple. Sure, we have our beliefs, but those beliefs should not be the rock upon which our house is built. We must passionately and openly talk about the realities of our larger goals. At the end of the day, we're the party of the people. We represent the woman struggling to go to college and raise two children. We represent the old fella who lost his factory job and had to go to work for a multi-national corporation as a cashier. We represent the kid in the ghetto who can't get help from his parents on filling out college applications and financial aid applications because they're not even literate.

I was in this forum a few months ago, and I was booted because of a comment I made against gay marriage. I think it's a fundamental human right issue, but I noted that it should not be the single issue defining our party. I vocally explained my anger for that issue taking center stage. Moments later, I was banned and silenced. I sent an e-mail to the forum administrators and heard nothing. I was so ticked that I nearly voted for Bush just in protest of the narrow-minded perspective of the person who banned me from this room. I mean, this is the party that supports free speech, isn't it? And it almost cost Kerry a vote.

I'm sure I was viewed as being insensitive to gays and lesbians, and it might have seemed that way. The reality, though, was that I was trying to focus on issues that appeal to a broader part of the country. You see, I know that people are just as biased against homosexuality as they were against minorities. We're living in the 1920s in terms of our tolerance for gays and lesbians. Most people just think they are sick and perverted. They need to be educated, and we can do that. But we can't do that until we're in a position to lead this country, and that requires us to say, 'Hey, we know what you stand for, but we need to get into office first. So sit tight and let us focus on the larger issues that this country faces. Then we can have that discourse about gay rights. We can't let the other side use you to define our party. Our party must be about something much larger.'

We can't be dividers any longer. We must be uniters. We must be the light that shines the way for all Americans. Let's follow the path our forefathers blazed and march into a better tomorrow. Only when we rise again to prominence can democrats even begin to fix the ills of this country.

Are you with me?

Of course you are.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

Now let's march.
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TheKingfish Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
44. Move to the left
Lose on purpose for a while. Let the republican party split. It needs to get alot worse before it gets better.
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never_get_over_it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
45. NO
We need to challenge their definition of morality

Which is more immoral - being gay or lesbian
or
KILLING 100,000 Iraqis

and the next time you encounter a "pro-life" person who supported this good Christian man who wants to protect the unborn babies - look them right in the eye and ask them

and how do you feel about KILLING IRAQI BABIES!!!

FREAKS!
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Burn The Bushes Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Right On!
I think someone said just what you said earlier in this thread. We need a leader like Jimmy Carter to open the window and show us just what the so-called moral right is doing.

How can they let innocent people be murdered in Iraq? The idiots play the 9/11 card, and then they close their ears when we explain for the umpteenth time that Iraq wasn't the terrorist organization that attacked us.

I should not something. In my original post to this thread, I noted that the democratic party wold be well-served to become more to the right simply by pushing itself a bit more away from the far left. At the same time, I have strong feelings on Iraq. I believe we could have won this election with anti-war stance on Iraq. Kerry did waffle on this issue whether he wants to admit it or not. If I had voted with my heart, he would have never received my approval for giving his support to Bush's war mongering. My heart still lies with the Greens.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
46. I think we did as good as humanly possible.
Seriously. Unless we actually BECAME republicans... but then, what would be the point? Half of us won't go more left, half won't go more right... we're exactly where we ought to be, I think. This IS the sweet spot for Democratism, for right now. We have just about exactly half the population... face it, Limbaugh listeners will not vote for a Dem.

Continue motivating the base, GOTV, stick to our guns, remove the vote-altering machines. The country will slowly shift our way. Maybe it just wasn't ready. But breaking the party apart will not help.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
48. Forward
This right-left crap is stupid. How are we going to move FORWARD!
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Royal Observer Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
49. Kerry could have won big
Kerry should have run to the right of Bush on Iraq and the war on terror and to the left of him on all domestic issues. Never ever mention raising taxes. Besides it's a foolish thing to do when the other party controls both chambers. Distance himself from controversial people. It worked for Clinton in the Sister Solja incident.
He would have had a landslide victory.
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GOPNotForMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
50. LEFT LEFT LEFT!
YES! FULL-TILT LEFT! UNWAVERINGLY LEFT!

Opposition party! Social conservatives are NOT, I repeat NOT, going to go for some cloned Right Winger when they have the REAL DEAL in front of them winning elections. We need an optimistic, bold, uncompromisingly liberal left vision for the country. We need people to know that it doesn't have to be this way at all, and pandering to Republican positions does the exact opposite! All it will do is alienate supporters. Don't distance yourselves from the so-called "fring left." EMBRACE THEM! *THEY* will be your army, they will fight for you, they just need to be energized and a centrist world view isn't going to do that.
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Burn The Bushes Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. I totally Disagree.
This isn't about who's right and who's wrong, nor is it about who has the strongest bunch of radicals. It's about math. Most Americans aren't wildly slanted toward any particular party. They're near the middle. They're Average Joe.

The goal is to get their vote. Moving further to the left isn't going to do that, and moving to the right isn't pandering to anyone as long as it's what the majority of Americans want.

Here's the problem: Somewhere along the line, folks on the far left have claimed the party for themselves. I believe in many of their causes, but it's not THEIR party. You can't just jump into a group and claim ownership of it. Most democratics are quite moderate, and we should embrace that because that's where the votes swing.
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Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
51. TO THE LEFT!!
We need to embrace our values and proudly proclaim them.
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