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Fake ballots unlikely: How TRIAD is attempting to get away with fraud

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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 10:37 AM
Original message
Fake ballots unlikely: How TRIAD is attempting to get away with fraud
This post has two parts --
I. How Triad may be trying to cover their tracks
2. How the recount must procede to be valid

I. HOW TRIAD MAY BE TRYING TO COVER THEIR TRACKS

According to Douglas Jones at U of Iowa installing the wrong ballot label for the precinct can swap votes in punch card voting systems. On the Votomatic, the ballot label puts names by holes in the card. If you tabulate hole one as a Bush hole, but your ballot label says hole one is a Kerry hole, of course, you'll switch votes. (Another way to say the same thing is that you can switch votes by installing a computer program to tabulate hole one as Bush and hole two as Kerry for precincts with ballot labels that say hole one is a Kerry hole.)

The simplest way for a voting machine company to make sure that recounters don't catch their vote swapping is to prevent recounters from seeing the ballot labels used to punch the cards in that precinct or to swap them before the recount begins.

What behavior on the part of Triad suggests that they may have swapped Bush and Kerry votes in some precincts on election day? They are suppressing all votes except for those in the Presidential race during the recount. <http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/14/192336/68 >

WHY suppress all other votes? To hide any discrepancy between votes for Kerry and votes for all other Democrats on the ticket!

Conclusion: If they swap the labels on the Votomatics (or just don't allow the recount observers to see them) *and* suppress the vote tallies for all other races then the punch card machine recounts should go perfectly.

2. HOW THE RECOUNT MUST PROCEDE TO BE VALID

Recount workers must demand to see the Votomatic labels for each precinct. To be certain the labels are correct, people who voted in that precinct should be contacted to collect sample ballots that they received for that precinct.

If we are highly confident that we know the correct Votomatic label for each precinct then 100% of the ballots must be counted by hand *or* new software must be installed on the machines that we know will count accurately (the software must be written by an impartial programmer, and the source code must be released for ALL to see).

Alternatively, Blackwell MUST issue a directive to reinstall the software that was on the tabulators on election day so that the results of ALL races are reported. (This is not the best solution because they could install software that *still* manages to cheat).

Finally: I wholeheatedly believe that law enforcement must immediately seize all computers, software, and documents at Triad headquarters and at the homes of key people in the company.
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buddysmellgood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks for info. I leave for a recount in an puch card county in one hour.
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trudyco Donating Member (975 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I don't know about the recoding
I think if they switched the voters guide and then figure the people doing the recounting didn't vote in that precinct then they are OK.
That type of fraud does not require recoding anything. It just requires changing the label/voterguide after the election.

Buddysmellgood, Did you vote in one of the precincts you are recounting? Please let the organizers of the revote make sure they give a list of punchcard count order by precinct to every recount participate. Its relatively easy to do and doesn't require getting past stonewall blackwell.

trudyco
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Verve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. kick
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Kralizec Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. I hope people can start focusing on real issues like this, instead of
talking about Bev so much.
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. YES!!!!!!!
People can not resist the drama. Keep your eye on the ball please.
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BlueCentrist Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. I needed some clarification on this issue.
Thank you for providing it.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. So you're saying to have legal elections OH has to ignore the law?
Because procedures different from yours are required by statute.

Of course, not following the statutes *is* one way of getting the results invalidated.
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mackdaddy Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
8. Triad "RUNS" the election for many counties in Ohio
Many of the BoE's contract with Triad to "RUN" the election for them. They have Triad Program the Tabulator for the election, and some even have a Triad technician RUNNING THE CARDS THROUGH THE TABULATOR ELECTION NIGHT AND GIVING THE RESULTS to the BOE personnel. Triad also supplies the network of computes on which all of the BOE voter registration records are processed. (and the service for these networks).

That is why Triad had the access they did to the tabulator. The BOE people most likely did not have even known something bad was going on as they had implicit trust in Triad, until the Triad person suggested they do something so obviously illegal, which is why it was brought out to Conyers et all.

Triad has equipment is 41 of Ohio's 88 counties. I do not know how many they do this level of control, but it looks like maybe quite a few in addition to Hocking.
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fshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. Yes. And what would that require?
Enough political pressure to pierce through the media black-out. Grass-roots, in my opinion, cannot achieve that. A coalition of political heavy-weights is required. A press conference or something like that. I don't see that happening.
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Goldeneye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
10. So if this is what they're doing
don't the hand recounted ballots still need to match the machine? I don't understand what is going on. They would have to have the settings correct for the mchines doing the ballots that were counted by hand. Am I missing something?
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. I was very alarmed when I learned that they won't count all races
It seems to me that it is vitally important as a 'double check'.
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Kellis Donating Member (663 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. Kick
Thanks for posting IndyOp
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BushSpeak Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. Different ballot order for different precincts in the same building
This is how votes got mixed up in Cuyahoga county.

There were several precincts voting in the same building, each with a different ballot order. Supposedly the voting booths had no signs and voters from one precinct filled out their ballots in the other precinct's booth, then placed it in their own precinct's booth. This lead to a large count for third party candidate. Eventually the Democratic poll judge discovered and corrected the error.

There were at least 5 different ballot orders, but Kerry and Bush were never opposite, so that their votes could be swapped straight away.

So you would also have to check for ballot order during the recount. This could lead to fraud, but I'm not sure how they would work it.

Anyone know the purpose of different ballot order, other than trying to give equal treatment to each candidate?
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bj2110 Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. kick
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Chasing Dreams Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-04 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. Kick. Your analysis is sound
and I agree wholeheartedly with your recommendations.

And whether the ballots are real or fake, the key to finding the fraud is the same: All races need to be recounted!
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
16. They've had six weeks to tinker with them though...
Your analysis is quite informative, and much appreciated.
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