Nader Challenges M. Moore to Walk the Walk........

[grumpy old fart]

and back up his talk:

<snip>
Here you were -- against the Iraq War occupation, pro-justice for the Palestinian people, against the Patriot Act, against the swollen military budget and you were telling the university students to vote for Kerry who is on the complete opposite side of these issues.

Now that you no longer have to pose as a “least-worster”, with no more tactical excuses, what is your post-election confession? So far your website has dodged this question, unless that is you have no reflections on the merit of abandoning both your principles and your authentically progressive friends for candidates – - Kerry and Edwards—who so often performed as crypto-Republicans during the campaign.
<snip>

Michael, you have to rehabilitate yourself and remove the stains of your political apostasy. Get off your self-demeaning “Bill Maher Show knees” and once again confront the forces of corporate power and domination. Jettison your image as the Court Jester for the Democratic Party and its serial, crude violations of other candidates’ civil liberties to be on the ballot, to express their freedom of speech regarding a just society and world inside the electoral arena without being subjected to dirty tricks, hired corporate law firms, phony lawsuits, harassment and intimidation of signature gatherers.

Redeem yourself or forever be consigned to history’s judgment of political turncoats, renegades and saboteurs.


http://votenader.org/why_ralph/index.php?cid=175

[Kolesar]

1. this from the man who said there was no diff between Gore and Bush

I see Ralph is still living in his fantasy world.

[pocoloco]

2. Where are Ralph's observations not right on?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

[LoZoccolo]

14. The Iraq war.

Nader said Gore would have done the same thing.

[electropop]

27. Nader's got guts

he's never been afraid to speak the truth. I hope he runs next time, maybe for the Greens again. Kerry has lost my vote by ducking out on the single most important campaign promise he made: to count the votes. Like Nader, I thought of Kerry as barely a dem, but anything's better than Bush. Now I feel free to vote my conscience, since it'll never be counted anyway.

[grumpy old fart]

3. Dems and Repugs both in corporate pockets....

Did ya notice how fast Kerry conceded? Did ya notice the tepid campaign? Don't ya wish we'd run someone with balls and a backbone?

[grumpy old fart]

4. By the way, God bless Conyers....a man with balls and a backbone. n/t

[seaveggie]

6. Right on.

Amen, Grump.

[Skip Intro]

10. Amen. Ralph gave bush a leg up into the WH four years ago

after he was all but begged to put the interests of the nation above his ego. And then ridiculed Gore for "losing." He's a big reason we are where we are today. He's not someone to be lecturing others who actually put the country first.

[regularjoe]

18. With instant runoff voting it wouldn't be possible to be a "spoiler."

Which is much more fair because you shouldn't have to worry about whether running for office is going to hurt your nation.

A cool flash demo of IRV
<http://www.chrisgates.net/irv/>

regularjoe

[seaveggie]

5. This is really important stuff for all progressives

Ralph is not a nutcase. Ralph is really on target here.

Look, we're staring down at a very, very dangerous period for our country. The real deal is here. History has turned with this election (which, stolen or not, is starting to look like a fait de compli), and it has turned for the worse. The supreme court. Patriot Act 2. The global assault on the environment - these things have passed the planning stage and have entered the implementation stage. The war in Iraq will continue to be a horror-filled experience for many Americans and Iraqis. Who knows what the next years will bring in terrorist activity. And what other countries do the neocons have in their sites now?

And here we sit, in the early days of a forming, increasingly active, strengthening movement, with tremendous potential, and which is starting to realize its power. Look how we shut Sinclair down. Look how we almost (and without the election thievery, would have) thrown the neocons out of the gov't. Imagine what we will do in the coming year, all via peaceful, organized protest. We can change the country. Mass movements have always led the way for progressive change. Political leaders have always followed.

Ralph is RIGHT. Kerry/Edwards were saying nothing about American foreign policy, about the increasing dominance of corporate power, about the dangerous repercussions we face because of our foreign policy misdeeds. In fact, they both voted for those misdeeds...We all know the laundry list! The Democratic party is not up to the task. They are a corporate party. We need leaders, honest, progressive leaders, and we need a mass movement of energized, anti-corporate, grass-roots pressure, and it ain't gonna come from the DNC...

[gingergreen]

7. Here here!!

I think we should all turn our focus to the Progressive Democrats of America.

Check out http://www.pdamerica.org/

[seaveggie]

8. Interersting site

Never saw this site, thanks!

[Tesla]

12. Thanks for the link

I have sent it off to some friends.

[bear425]

28. Ginger, I just joined and signed the petition. Thanks! n/t

[Griffy]

19. Ralph is right.. BUT, he attacks the front gate! being right isnt enough

[Kralizec]

9. Nader has been trying to light a fire up progressives' asses for

his whole life. For those of you still young, imagine fighting like you have for this election, but for most of your life. Now Imagine, by the time that you are Nader's age, you'd have to be a bit bitter at the fact that Americans are lazy and never get off their couches or even pay attention to what their gov't is doing. Heck, I've been doing this for two years and I'm already bitter...

[grumpy old fart]

11. Amen brother....n/t

[zulchzulu]

13. Just when I was starting to like Nader again...

...he puts his foot in his mouth again.

Nader is mad that Moore saw him as a self-absorbed opportunist who got even less votes this time around than in 2000.

Poor fucking baby...

[robbedvoter]

15. So, Ralphie, about those New Hampshire recounts....

people here cheered him when he chose to challenge a Kerry win (and not say, Florida). OK, where's the beef? Where did YOU walk, Ralphie?

[regularjoe]

20. He was asked and advised to start with New Hampshire by activists.

It was relatively inexpensive, small, and looked suspicious so it was a good place to start. Don't blame Nader. He responded to pleading activists. I respect that.

regularjoe

[robbedvoter]

22. So, it was the mistake of several people - just as I said at the time.

nader delivered squat. Why is blaming MM OK? At least MM worked with us and against W?

[regularjoe]

26. Nader did deliver, but no fraud was found....

And it sounds like he respects what MM was doing before the election and would like to see a little more of it now, after the election.

regularjoe

[noiretextatique]

29. i must have missed all the recounts kerry demanded

:shrug:

[noiretextatique]

16. a timely message for all the conceders and enablers

as usual, ralph gets the heart of the matter. i will save this article for the next "we should abandon x group to attract y group" thread.

[robbedvoter]

21. From a W enabler? And his point is?

[noiretextatique]

25. there are a quite few W enablers

with "D's" behind their names. i do believe that is one of his points, for those able to hear it.

[iconoclastNYC]

17. Who takes Nader seriously?

He gets funding from Republicans, he has almost no support.

Even if Michael Moore is the court joker of the Democratic party, he gets our side of the story in front of more eyeballs than crotchety old Nader ever will.

If we have to resort to theatrics and agitprop to get people to see our point of view, then that's what we need to do. We don't have the massive propaganda machine the republicans have.

[info being]

23. Well-said Ralph!

We compromised our values for this election. Time to go back to our roots.

[Quakerfriend]

24. Exactly!

For years, we've all known that what he has been saying for years is true..........re: corp owned media etc.

We all need to get off of our "bums" and walk the walk. Demand multiple presidential candidates, support ethical corps. (if there are any!), give up our SUV's etc.

[Alizaryn]

30. ouch