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EMunster Donating Member (477 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:09 PM
Original message
The Wall Street Journal explains motives behind those shouting "FRAUD"
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 05:55 PM by EMunster

EXPLAINING OHIO

A few readers have written to us wondering what the Democrats are up to in Ohio. As the Associated Press reported the other day, the party says it plans an "investigation" of "voting problems" there. Terry McAuliffe, the departing party chairman, "said it's too early to tell if Republicans were behind any fraud that may have influenced the outcome in Ohio." Yet "McAuliffe said the party is not seeking to overturn the result"--an implicit acknowledgment that Bush won fair and square.

Meanwhile, the Dems have joined the Libertarian and Green parties in calling for a statewide recount in Ohio, even though President Bush's victory there, by a margin of well over 100,000 votes, has been certified.

Some readers have written us asking if there is a possibility that the Democrats actually will manage to steal the election. The answer is no. Yet it's a reasonable enough question, for why else would they be pursuing this seemingly pointless exercise? Our guess is they're doing so with future elections in mind:

* There are a certain number of bitter-enders who are impervious to the reality that George W. Bush is a legitimate president, and thus will never accept the result of the election. Democrats likely fear alienating this part of their base unless they make at least some symbolic effort to "count every vote."

* By pressing for such things as permissive standards for counting provisional ballots, Democrats may be hoping to establish precedents they can use in future elections that actually are close.

* Ohio's top election official, Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, is a promising young Republican politician--and he is black. For reasons we discussed in the preceding item, Democrats are eager to discredit him; see this vicious Jesse Jackson column for a sample.

There you have it. Kerry isn't going to pull a rabbit out of his hat, and the Democrats aren't crazy (well, except the bitter-enders). They just have smaller things to worry about than the outcome of the election.



http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110006002


Funny that not one of these three reasons has entered my mind until now.




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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. BITTER ENDERS????
F- You! and the Horse you rode in on!!!!
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berniew1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
41. Coverup! Documentation Kerry won in Ohio
Documentation that Kerry won Ohio
http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/supreme.htm


Strong Evidence of fraud in Miami County, Ohio
http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/miami.htm

High undercounts in Kerry precincts and low undercounts in Bush precincts in Cincinati
http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/cincinnati.htm

Indications of Fraud in several Ohio counties
www.flcv.vom/fraudioh.html

Indications of possible ballot box stuffing in S.W. Ohio counties
http://www.flcv.com/swohio.html
http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/warren.htm

Favoritism in the Suburbs http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/suburbs.htm

Stealing Votes in Cleveland http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/cleveland.htm

(there is more documentation) http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/alpage.htm
(this is without the huge amount of voter suppression that has been previously documented) http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/columbus.htm
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ihelpu2see Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
85. I saw the lesser insult of "Die Hards" in Ohio
but I am in CT and hoping for a full and complete accounting.... I know even that is a pipe dream
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
91. They sound pretty scared to me.
Edited on Fri Dec-10-04 09:37 AM by electropop
Sounds like WSJ is somewhere between the nervous laughing phase and the fighting phase. Good.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. AAAAAaaagggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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West Coast Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. Everyone knows the WSJ Editorial Page is a fascist joke
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Liberal_Andy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. ...except, it's not funny.
well, rarely.
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stella2cat Donating Member (157 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. LEGITIMATE president my ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! n/t
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. Gag, choke
:puke:
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Here too
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. Screw the Wall Street Journal Editorial board!
Some readers have written us asking if there is a possibility that the Democrats actually
will manage to steal the election.


They need to ask their party that. Stupid Imps.
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jedicord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. "...is a promising young Republican politician--and he is black."
AH, that's right. Democrats are racists! Whew! Now I KNOW why they hate us! They have a right to be angry white men.
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pilgrimsoul Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Outrageous!!!
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 05:22 PM by pilgrimsoul
What a steaming pile of caca!!! The question that WSJ asshat *should* be asking is why Ohio repubs are so threatened by the Dems' pursuit of a recount. Where's the confidence that comes with a supposed "mandate?" If they truly won, what's the harm in recounting the ballots? Could it be the Repubs have something to hide? <smirk> FRAUD, FRAUD, FRAUD - keep shouting it from the rooftops, people!!!
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thanks for the link. It bugs me to no end that my liberal..
Democrat husband subscribed to this POS.

The author makes several errors in terms of logic. Just because one is seeking to investigate voter irregularities, voter disenfranchisement, and general voting problems (as well as potential fraud), does not mean that one is implicitly acknowledging that Boooosh won. It merely means that the investigator noted the suspicious and is exploring what went on. This is just pure propaganda, IMHO.
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rdmccur Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. Pure unadulterated crap!
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distantearlywarning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. Permissive standards for counting ballots? Um...no...
Actually, what I'd *really* like to see is a systematic, nationwide electoral process that used clear, usable, paper and "pencil" ballots and a system to go with them that made it very difficult for anyone to use them to commit fraud for either party.

That's all I want. I guess that makes me "bitter". But whatever. Believe what you want, asshole.
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
12. JAMES TARANTO
he sounds like the typical rabid right-winger the WSJ loves to employ...
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SomthingsGotaGive Donating Member (485 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. what does this last line mean?
They just have smaller things to worry about than the outcome of the election.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. Race issue
Did you notice that in the previous article he was trying to make Harry Reid's criticisms of Justice Thomas a "racist issue" as well. Methinks they protest too much.
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FrankBooth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Projection ...
In every GOP accusation they project their own guilt.
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sunnystarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Actually I think it's one of their talking points ...
The Repukes are after the AA vote and take every opportunity to undermine the DNC to AAs. Heard it again on the way home when Hannity asked an AA why he voted for Kerry. "What did Kerry ever do for you." "What legislation has he passed for AA?" "What have Democrats done for you?" "Bush is on your side. He appointed Condaleeza Rice and Colin Powell." (He named some other minority appointments as well.) This isn't the first time I've heard it and it won't be the last. Notice how many AA Repuke pundits are making the rounds. There's a concerted effort to pull AAs from the Dem side. Oh and when the caller said that Bush pulled money from health care and after school and child care programs, Hannity said it wasn't so.
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FrankBooth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. It is both psychological and tactical
You are right, it is one of their talking points- I was just commenting on their pattern of projecting their collective and individual weaknesses (civil rights, environment, lack of compassion, dogma, etc...) onto their political opponents, in this case democrats. It reminds me of the psychological processes that create scapegoating ... projecting on others that which you have repressed about yourself.
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sunnystarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #38
63. Isn't that classic Rove? (nt)
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FrankBooth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #63
71. Yep. And Classic Psychology. (NM)
nm.
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housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #38
82. It's true
Every accusation they charge against us reveals their own attitudes and behaviors.

Hmmm... do you suppose the same could be true of us??? ....
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FrankBooth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #82
89. Of course.
but the difference is what we project.
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housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #36
81. I agree with you
It seems to be the Republican agenda to co-opt all our advantages and to demonize the Dems on every count. This is more of the same. It has become so insiduous that it must be one of their agenda items.
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
16. At least they're talking about it. n/t
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Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
17. LOL! It shows we are making a bigger impact
than they expected. They should have felt n need to say anything if they felt all the cow chips were on their side. But then again, those WSJ folks are not the brightest bulbs.
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
19. Right. Jesse Jackson just HATES black people.
Got to discredit all black Republicans, you know.

WTF?

"impervious to the reality that George W. Bush is a legitimate president" (installed in 2001 despite losing) (lied to congress, committed treason and got away with it) (certified in 2004 by a partisan crook)

Maybe someone else is impervious to the reality that their party is corrupt.
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FloridaCrat Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
20. Gee, I don't recall any WSJ Reporters at the hearing yesterday...
It'd be a whole different story if they bothered to report the story in the first person, rather than opinion pieces.

I guess this means they've started to fight us. Yeah!!! Because soon, we will win.
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West Coast Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. they're not "reporters," they're editorial writers
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jljamison Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. A couple of things conveniently left out

The WSJ conveniently neglects to also mention that Blackwell was the BC04 state chairman for Ohio and makes no mention of the actual problems documented widely and supported by facts.



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november3rd Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
22. gee, what a sincere concern for the propriety of elections
This is what we have to look forward to with MSM "involvement"

"Involvement" or "Coverage" are euphemisms for "spin" and "doublethink"
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tex-wyo-dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
24. Perfect expample of how the reich-wing will spin this.
It's all about the "liberals being sore losers."

Go blow it out your A**!!!
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rdmccur Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
25. That article ensures that
I will never subscribe to the Wall Street Journal.
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madison2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
26. Democrats stealing the election
thats pretty funny :silly: :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly:
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SueZhope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. LOL thats funny & sick
It is totally amazing to me that people are asking them if the dems investigating the election might be trying to steal it.

If it turned out there invesgation & recount efforts ended up winning it then how
the hell is that theft?.. :wtf: the logic is illogical, did I miss something?

But then again those that support Bush are not based in logic nor reality .
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #33
42. It's A Rovian MO .......
turn it around. Say that the Dems are trying to steal the election. Put the suggestion out there in the minds of the brainless Repug minds that it's the Dems that are stealing the election. Classic Rove (i.e.,like he turned the tables on the war hero Kerry and make him a cheating coward) when its exactly the other way. Put it out long and loud enough and all the Repugs will be saying the Dems are trying to steal the election. MSM will pick up that story - case in point this WSJ - which is just getting the ball rolling. Wait and see once our efforts in turning this around become successful.
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madison2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. They think they are ENTITLED to win and that
the DEMS shouldn't even be allowed to vote in the first place.
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #42
53. Sickening and True. n/t
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ihelpu2see Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
84. but if you tell a lie over and over again....WMD wmd WMD
it does not matter how you slice it. again, we are going to be to late to shape the debate. We are afraid to look like Gore in 2000. It is fine to let the Indi group to start the ball rolling but there is enough evidence now that there was some real voter suppression as well as statistics to back Vote padding or worse, that the DNC should be making more noise.

If you let the Rove types shape the debate, the public will end up thinking that the Dems are trying to steal something, even if the logic is ass backward. And you notice they always flip the coin on race... sad, very sad that in a modern age you have so many in this great nation who frame the world because of color, sex, or belief in a deity.
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #26
92. Their concern about Dems possibly taking office
Edited on Fri Dec-10-04 09:42 AM by electropop
betrays just how frightened they are. This is what they are starting to think about now.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
27. some symbolic effort to "count every vote."
Counting every vote is so quaint, isn't it? It's so 20th Century.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
29. This space bought and paid for by the RNC.
Really, why would I take this as anything but expected Republican opinion that is the exclusive domain of the WSJ editorial page?
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NV Whino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
30. Hey, count me as one of the Bitter Enders!
Blackwell as a promising young politician. Gimme a break.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Promising?
Maybe they mean as in "promising" the Ohio election to GWB. Hee hee.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
32. WTF!!!???!!!!
"There are a certain number of bitter-enders who are impervious to the reality that George W. Bush is a legitimate president, and thus will never accept the result of the election."


Since when? last I heard, he lost the first time too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We know they've been drinking the koolaid. :puke:
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KaryninMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
34. First they ignore you, then they fight you...
THEN YOU WIN. Get it? NOW GET IT GOOD please.

The Wall Street Journal is a GOP outpost like the Washington Times, Fox and most of the rest of the MSM. Save your rage for when we need to take to the streets please (you can use it to make fabulous signs!), or take that energy and write some more letters (take a breath first so they won't sound hysterical), or go out and give out flyers to remind everyone you meet to QUESTION THE ELECTION.

Ok?>>> We can do this and we will.
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GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. then you win !!! John Bonzefaz the lawyers makes this statement always
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Mist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #34
57. Yeah, how does that go again?
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Seems like they're in the angry/fighting stage now. We've had that effect pretty quickly, barely a month. They're feeling the heat.
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idealista Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
37. made me so mad I wrote a letter n/t
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
40. LOL! "A promising young Republican -- and he is black"
OH my God. Republicans have black friends. Who knew? LOL!
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SaveAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
43. This gives us a good idea of their plans...
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 06:25 PM by SaveAmerica
Guys, my blood was boiling when I read this (I'm fairly calmer but getting an ulcer) but I'm wondering if we can use it for our cause. We've got to get a list of the newspapers that endorsed Kerry and focus our attention on getting the message out to them, there's got to be a major paper that will help out. Narrow the list of papers down to 4; northeast, southeast, etc. and everyone write well thought out short letters to them to let them know the importance of what is going on.

These guys are most likely reading these boards and are nervous because of the wealth of evidence. They've chosen a newspaper they know will write for them and they've kept their message short and sweet. That's how they think they'll keep the truth from getting out. That's their message: That we're trying to steal the election. Remembering that 50% of america needs short sweet messages to help them understand issues, we should focus on 2 or 3. Letters should mention;

1. Voters were disenfranchised in Ohio (come up with most important)
a. more machines in repub. precincts than dem.
b. more dem. provisional ballots thrown out
c. letters sent out to vote on second

2. SoS Blackwell conflict of interest with Bush/Cheney campaign

3. Electronic voting machines conflict of interest with Bush/Cheney campaign

Think of the election, there were SO MANY reasons to keep GW out of the white house and we wanted everyone to know all of them. All were legit but they couldn't handle the info overload. It's the same thing now, there are SO MANY reasons that GW should not remain in the white house but we'd overload the people who need simple messages with all the information we have. Someone please help me crunch down the main idea here of a simple 2 or 3 point letter that can be sent to everyone, to get this message out. My hands are shaking and I'm not able to get my thoughts together very well because I'm so mad but I hope what I'm trying to say gets across. Thanks.


Edit misinformation about book seen at library.


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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
44. Bonifaz: ..." Then they fight you,
then you win. They're fighting us now, and we're going to win." (Ghandi)
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KaryninMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Bingo..
Let them fight us. We have something they don't on our side.

TRUTH.

We are the moral majority.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #47
59.  Truth
Somethings are more painful then the Truth, but I can't think of any.
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Kellis Donating Member (663 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
45. Thanks for posting!
What great news!!Readers are writing in wanting to know about Ohio.....

Apparently the "noise" is getting LOUD!We are making them spin and explain and talk about election fraud.

Way to Go everybody!Keep up the pressure-


"Its happening!"
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
46. Blackwell is promising, all right. He promised bush and cheney
that he would be their Ohio waterboy.
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Truthbeknown Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
48. I sent them an e-mail
Here it is:
This article of yours below, about the stolen election, is pure BS.The Democrats can't steal the election because it already was stolen by the Republicans in the way of voter suppression in minority areas such as long lines,too few voting machines,denying absentee and provisional ballots.Also by manipulating the counting of votes with the electronic machines with no paper trail.But it is not over yet,there is a recount and there will be an investigation before this is all over.Watergate was child's play compared to what went on in this past election.The Republican's will be the "bitter-enders" when this is all over.Some of them will also go to jail and we will have a new President,John Kerry.

In the e-mail,I posted their article below.
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
50. The first of many "Rove-ian" spins.
Unlike the Election, 'transparent' it is! Subtle it is not!
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tandem5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
51. oh those big meanie pants!
yawn.
:boring:
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sepia_steel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Apologies to EMunster
Edited on Thu Dec-09-04 06:40 PM by sepia_steel
I misread and thought that EMunster was the original author of the article, and that the article had been posted somewhere online, such as a Wall Street Journal message board, etc.

Sorry about that; my mistake. How embarrassing. Totally on your side, EMunster!
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EMunster Donating Member (477 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #52
96. none needed...

didn't see your original comment. But I assumed some might wonder what I mean. no worries.

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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
54. I emailed them
and asked what the Ukrainian word for "bitterenders" was.
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
55. ROFLMAO!!!
Are these people serious?????

It seems the natives are restless indeed, better oil up that spin machine.


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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
56. Hey, everyone, bask in the glow of the attention....
....you betcha they're gonna be calling us all kinds of names before this one's over.

Enjoy it because a rag like the WSJ is not going to spill a drop of ink on something that isn't starting to concern their backroomboys.

Give'um more and more reason to be concerned by shipping them data, analysis, field reports, ...., and do it all with the cold, cool effectiveness of folk who know what they are defending and have absolutely no intention of allowing this invalid national election to stand.

Peace.

"When Did Bush Know?"
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Kellis Donating Member (663 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. BRAVO!
Well said my friend!Thats the attitude to have :toast:

:kick:
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Razorback_Democrat Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
58. What did you expect from WSJ Opinion journal?
They are part of the r.w. echo chamber

led the charge against Clinton

fuck 'em

they're not mainstream America
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neversaynever Donating Member (188 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #58
66. I call it "Gotta Lotta Gall Street Journal" n/t
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
61. HA! George W. is a bastard
Bastard - as in illegitimate. Illegitimate president with an illegitimate war.
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
62. WSJ--Can't Challenge A Vote That's Already Certified
Here's another part of the article that gets my goat.

Meanwhile, the Dems have joined the Libertarian and Green parties in calling for a statewide recount in Ohio, even though President Bush's victory there, by a margin of well over 100,000 votes, has been certified.

Parties with questions about the vote or with challenges had to file a lawsuit to get to the data they needed for their chaallenge. They LOST the legal challenge and were FORCED by the Repubs to wait until just a few days ago. According to the Ohio SOS there could be no recount UNTIL the count was certified.

The Dem and Glib challenges have come so late in the day because the extremely partisan SOS of Ohio has been trying to run out the clock. Now the WSJ claims that it's too late to mount a challenge.

Really outrageous.
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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
64. I've Been Avoiding This Article All Day
And wish I had through the night as well.

What a bunch of garbage, but who really gives a fuck. I don't see any reason why this article was even posted or why we were subjected to it. It is just a bunch of right wing talking points coming from an OPINION based editorial rather than from a MSM newspaper.

There is no more value to posting such crap here then there would be to go to the freerepublic site everyday and post thread after thread of the bullshit that is posted there.

I knew this couldn't actually be a REAL article, it is nothing more then rightist opinion crap, as if Sean Hannity himself wrote it.
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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
65. They probably thought there were WMD's too!
And the crazy democrats who didn't think Saddam posed a treat were "bitter-enders!" Screw 'em!
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siddharta Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. WHERE'S THEIR EMAIL? I've got a letter but not their email?? n/m
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. here
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siddharta Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. GRACIAS
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #68
80. email sent thanks!
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siddharta Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
69. Email for WSJ?
I'm using Bernie's post as a letter and want to send it
to them to "enlighten" the bastids.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
72. LOVE IT! Spin control attempt - these guys must be getting nervous! nt.
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
73. kick n/t
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
74. Reads like a piece penned by Karl Rove personally
and simply posted by the WSJ to annoy those putting Ohio under the election microscope. I am going to ignore it.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
75. Slick - you are slick WSJ, as usual.
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k8conant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
76. We want to sweeten up this bitter end-----
I subscribe to this rag but obviously not for their politics.

At least the WSJ is acknowledging the bitter end that they would have us unquestioningly accept. Of course the logic of the argument is inherently suspect: "Bush won by a mile" therefore "the election was free and fair".

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
77. Democrats have "smaller things to worry about that the election?" Whaaaa?
what "smaller things is this guy talking about?" My head is exploding!
QUOTE:
There you have it. Kerry isn't going to pull a rabbit out of his hat, and the Democrats aren't crazy (well, except the bitter-enders). They just have smaller things to worry about than the outcome of the election.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
78. I am so out of touch. I now know what I am. "Bitter Ender"
It must be because I hate my freedom. I really want to steal elections. Maybe DU needs to change its name to "bitter end underground".

Thank you Thank you
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
79. Sound like Marsh Blackburn repulsive from Tennessee
Rhetoric... Did they go to the same "ghost vote" school?
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senegal1 Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #79
83. wow guess why we might want Kenneth Blackwell out of office
Maybe same reason as they are impeaching Kathy Augustine Nevada Comptroller -- misuse of public funds and public office -- see this great link and then lets do it to Kenneth Blackwell.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/N/NEVADA_CONTROLLE...

By BRENDAN RILEY
Associated Press Writer

CARSON CITY, Nev. (AP) -- A Senate impeachment trial opened Wednesday against Nevada Controller Kathy Augustine, with a prosecutor describing how state employees turned her office into "campaign central" during her 2002 re-election bid.

In opening arguments, Dan Greco said staffers on state time wrote campaign speeches, solicited donations and even asked donors to Augustine's opponent why they were not helping her campaign.

snip

Impeachment and removal are "for the worst of the worst. It's the penalty for an elected official," Arrascada said.

The impeachment trial is the first of its kind in Nevada's 140-year history. A two-thirds Senate vote would be required to remove Augustine.


Sorry if this has been posted already.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #83
86. They did the same thing in Missouri several years ago.
They sent their Republican asses to jail.

When we were a Democratic State. (Before we knew about Blue States)
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #86
90. Well if anyone's ass belongs in jail it's that Blackwell's!
THE FREAK! and put that Blackburn in there with him. Lovely couple.
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-09-04 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
87. Propaganda machine wrenches out pre-slavery movement attack on Americans!
WSJ CLAIM:

"Yet "McAuliffe said the party is not seeking to overturn the result"--an implicit acknowledgment that Bush won fair and square." WSJ


RESPONSE:

Actually, this statement in no way suggests that Bush won fairly. What it does is take away the legitimacy of Republican revolutionary counter-attacks against all efforts to verify election fraud and vote integrity by advancing them as legitimate interests of the American people.

It does not rule out that if Election fraud is discovered that the candidates that have suffered damages as a result would seek the ultimate remedy, which would be to overturn the election results.

Semantics are useful, but the WSJ herein invokes fiction in order to earn patronage points by kissing the arse of the Republican Revolutionaries who will create further fake economic prosperity by selling out Social Security to Wall Street Brokers and con men in the short term while rendering them as equal slaves under church law in the long run - vision is underrated!

WSJ CLAIM:

"Meanwhile, the Dems have joined the Libertarian and Green parties in calling for a statewide recount in Ohio, even though President Bush's victory there, by a margin of well over 100,000 votes, has been certified." WSJ

RESPONSE:

The litigation demanding an immediate recount of the Ohio votes was thwarted by Secretary of State Blackwell's defense of OHIO election law, and such recount cannot take place until after the certification of the vote, based on the decisions and judicial interpretation of those laws by the justices that presided over each of those lawsuits.

Therefore, the WSJ knowingly commits Journalistic injustice by making false allegation here in direct contradiction of widely known facts.

WSJ CLAIM:

"Some readers have written us asking if there is a possibility that the Democrats actually will manage to steal the election. The answer is no. Yet it's a reasonable enough question, for why else would they be pursuing this seemingly pointless exercise? Our guess is they're doing so with future elections in mind:"

RESPONSE:

Does the WSJ herein suggest that even if the number of votes that Kerry would need in order to have been awarded the full electoral vote for Ohio is found or discovered via legal process that such evidence shall be moot, because the election law of Ohio has been written in such a way as to prevent any candidate from such discovery, if the Secretary of State withholds permission for such discovery, as Blackwell has done in Ohio, prior to the certification of the vote results?

Does WSJ have insider information?

Perhaps a judicial committee shall convene to request of the WSJ how they became in possession of such advance knowledge, unless of course it is really just propaganda?

WSJ CLAIM:

"* There are a certain number of bitter-enders who are impervious to the reality that George W. Bush is a legitimate president, and thus will never accept the result of the election. Democrats likely fear alienating this part of their base unless they make at least some symbolic effort to "count every vote."" WSJ

RESPONSE:

Name calling, from those "bitter-enders" whom are impervious to the reality that George W. Bush is not a legitimate president, and thus will never allow the audit and verification of the result of the election.

Democrats likely fear being lawfully morphed into Republican Revolutionary defined terrorists (see Lexicon) and thus alienating their base constituents and all Americans whom now see America is headed in the wrong direction, unless they make a last stand to "count every vote.

WSJ CLAIM:

"* By pressing for such things as permissive standards for counting provisional ballots, Democrats may be hoping to establish precedents they can use in future elections that actually are close." WSJ

RESPONSE:

By pressing for such things as permissive standards for counting provisional ballots, Democrats are hoping to establish precedents they can use in future prosecution of election fraud that actually has already occurred by prejudicial standards enacted unlawfully, whether with or without intent, on the basis of a qualified category of discrimination under federal law - race.

WSJ CLAIM:

"* Ohio's top election official, Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, is a promising young Republican politician--and he is black. For reasons we discussed in the preceding item, Democrats are eager to discredit him; see this vicious Jesse Jackson column for a sample."

RESPONSE:

Ohio's top election official, Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, is a promising young Republican token minority puppet politician--and he is black, to dispel the administrations actual policies of racism toward blacks and other minorities by constant referral to his race in response to actual policy determinations made by him on behalf of his chosen candidates and their collective political organization of Republican Revolutionaries.

For reasons we discussed in the preceding item, Democrats are eager to indict him; see Jesse Jackson's leadership in addressing Blackwell's reported and evidenced prejudicial abuse of power by actions that directed the Ohio elections to select candidates of Blackwell's preference, rather than to allow the will of the Ohio people to be carried out in order to make good on the United States Constitution's guarantee of equal protection under the law.

WSJ CLAIM:

There you have it. Kerry isn't going to pull a rabbit out of his hat, and the Democrats aren't crazy (well, except the bitter-enders). They just have smaller things to worry about than the outcome of the election.

RESPONSE:

And they say that Wall Street prospers under Democratic Rule and suffers under Republican Rule?

This demonstrates that the verifiable history that Wall Street has put into the publics mindset is definitely just a lie that they use to try to score points with Democrats in the instances that these Democrats are in high political office.

The reality is that business left unchecked and with friendly crooks in the White House and Congress, as well as the Judiciary does far better when they can exploit workers free from fear and pilfer markets with a lower cost of doing business than that that they would have from obeying regulations that impede the direct theft from and demand accountability to Americans.

Big business carries out an economic assault on the American public while falsely declaring that Americans are passive and apathetic toward their Democracy, while these purportedly apathetic and passive Americans have their democracy denied to them time-after-time, and while the big business controlled media squelch any dissent by those Americans that try to demonstrate the truth of big businesses actions.

More than this, big business has somehow bought into the logic that Religious Dominionism is somehow going to deliver to them the economic Holy Grail, and big business is acting against even their own interests for the long term by embracing the religious zealots that have perpetrated fraud in order to gain appearances of legitimacy as Congressmen, Congresswomen, Judges, and other various elected and unelected public officials as they enact a Religious Reformation as this world has never before seen.

Lastly, the Bible's laws contradict the economic laws that are at the foundation of laissez faire economic doctrine, and one has no historical knowledge of this world if one cannot state honestly to oneself that the origin of the governmental laws and agencies that restrict free reign of business arose from the abuse of the very freedoms that preexisted these laws and agencies and that continue to be carried out now by laissez faire capitalists.

A true Capitalist, in my mind, would undertake massive investment in people in order to create greater economies and greater markets to exploit in order to reap greater profits off of greater spending and consumption, but there are NO capitalists or economists who both support laissez faire capitalism and massive investment into people everywhere worldwide.

Instead, it is repression and global domination, at the hands of Dominionists here and abroad that are akin to be on their minds. Enslavement to them is freedom, and poverty is liberty, the freedom and liberty that they take advantage of all people whom they may without suffering or punishment.
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Kellis Donating Member (663 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #87
88. Niiice
I hope you will forward your 'response' to the WSJ.I think they would appreciate your take on the subject.HA!

Welcome to DU~!
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #87
93. We brought Kathy Lee Gifford child slavery to it's knees in the
clothing industry, exposure is the key. We can do it again.
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Duncan Donating Member (498 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
94. I agree there is no chance Dems will "steal" the election.
We will overturn it fair and square.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
95. BLACKBURN CONTACT
To Contact Marsha: Washington Office:
509 Cannon Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
202-225-2811
202-225-3004 fax Clarksville Office:
1850 Memorial Dr.
Clarksville, TN 37043
931-503-0391
931-503-0393 fax

Memphis Office:
7975 Stage Hills Blvd.
Suite 1
Memphis, TN 38133
901-382-5811
901-373-8215 fax
Franklin Office:
City Hall Mall
109 3rd Avenue South
Suite 117
Franklin, TN 37064
615-591-5161
615-599-2916 fax


STILL LOOKING FOR EMAIL
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-10-04 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
97. FU WSJ
Another douchebag of democracy
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