Impending trade war between Canada and the US

[yvr girl]

If the softwood lumber issue is not resolved soon, it looks like Canada will impose retaliatory import taxes on US goods. This will hurt the US exporter, but also the Canadian consumer. Wouldn't it make more sense to impose export taxes on things like electricity and oil - things they really need?

[ClintonTyree]

1. NUKE 'EM.............................

Electricity and oil? Hell, theres probably a plan in place to take them away already. If they don't submit to bush's trade agenda, invade and claim those resources as our own. There IS precedent!

Christ almighty, this asshole is going to turn the last country even remotely friendly with us into an enemy. :eyes:

[madrchsod]

2. we get alot of our natural gas in our area

of northern illinois from the pipeline that starts in the western canadian gas fields-the same ones the chinese are buying. i just don`t understand why bush has decided to ruin the relations with canada. crap not that long ago the rock river in southern wisconsin and northern illinois was just another highway for the fur trappers and jesuits from the "north". now i wish northern illinois was still part of the "north"

[achtung_circus]

3. There was an excellent article in the Globe & Mail

this morning. I read the paper edition, it's online but one needs to be a paying subscriber. It boils down to the fact that the US ignores trade rulings. They walk the walk, no more. When in doubt rape your friends.

If anyone is an INSIDER subscriber to the Goat and Snail they may be able to access quotes.

<http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Page/document/hubsv3/tgamHub?hub=Search&query=NAFTA&go.x=16&go.y=16&go=Go>

[iverglas]

9. google news!

I went to your link, copied the first line of the article from the results list, and pasted it into the google news search box. Ta da!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050210/RSOFTWOOD10/TPBusiness/TopStories

The Canadian government, increasingly frustrated by U.S. intransigence in the lengthy softwood battle, is asking a global trade body for the right to slap retaliatory sanctions on a record $4.1-billion worth of American goods.

While Canada has sought international authority to retaliate against its largest trading partner before, it has never done so on such a scale.

... "As soon as you start ratcheting up a dispute by retaliating, that's the definition of all-out trade war," said William Merkin, a former top U.S. trade negotiator. "It appears that Canada's patience has finally worn out. How many times do they have to prevail before arbitration panels and not get satisfaction."

But Mr. Merkin said he doubts the threat of WTO-sanctioned retaliation will be enough to get the Bush administration to back down. He said the dispute has become "so politicized" and neither side wants to back down. Canada will have to wait as long as nine months to find out whether the WTO grants final authority to retaliate.

What weenies we are, eh? Actually asking permission, from the body we have voluntarily vested with the authority to make such decisions, and waiting until it decides, before retaliating for an illegal action taken against us.

[applegrove]

13. Very true. One US government type was talking to a Canadian

journalist on As It Happens and said: "you know there is now support in the US congress to undo the part of the NAFTA where the 'Dispute Settlement Mechanism' resides. And the journalist was like: "and since you ignore that all the time anyway - how would we be effected by such a change".

Thank god our media still speaks the truths.

I hope countries around the world take note of how the USA under Repukes ignore trade agreements. I think anyone making a deal should be careful who they make the deal with.

[Spazito]

4. Good, it is WELL PAST time, imo

I, for one, have been boycotting as many US products, from corporations that donate to the repubs, as possible. The Canadian consumer can go elsewhere for those products if they don't wish to pay the increased price and we should be buying Canadian anyway, at least while the bush admin is in.

I am very tired of the US administrations talking NAFTA only when it benefits them and ignoring the rules and rulings when it doesn't.

I also think we should look at giving the 6 months notice to pull out of NAFTA if this continues.

Edited to add this link to a thread on LBN. It is titled: Border talks called 'disturbing'. It is something we should all read, imo!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1238817

[achtung_circus]

5. Given the size of our trade with the US options are limited.

However, we have seen demonstrated that the US ignores international trade law at will. It's time for some action that will get the US attention.

I am not an American

I AM CANADIAN!

and have been for 222 years (UEL).

The US has for years acted like a bad neighbour, loud parties at night, throwing garbage over the fence, stealing stuff from the garage and calling the cops for the sole purpose of harrassment.

Yes, I know it's not all Americans, but those of you who wonder why "Americans" seem to tarred with a common brush by the rest of the world should take note.

[applegrove]

14. We are also a resource rich country in a world where China, India,

Brazil & Russia as well as all the rest are emerging with middle classes. We can sell our resources elsewhere. Afterall our resources used to go towards England for 100 years. Then USA for 100. Why not Asia for the next 100?

Nothing stopping us! Certainly not any continental loyalty. USA slams us every day by trying to undo our medicaire and buy our business elites hearts (which may not have been that expensive). In fact it would be in our best interests to do a little divesting and spread the risk. No investor is supposed to have all their eggs in one basket!

One thing for sure... this George W. Bush fellow sure has freed us up of long-term relationships & obligations. He cuts relationships & human investment left, right and centre. It seems that it takes only a 'feeling' to rip up legal documents and agreements. Good to know this is a legitimate way to do business and run government. We can use that in the future.

[loritooker]

6. Our small company does business in Canada, customs is a nightmare..

Our Canadian vendor, a very nice guy, told me just a few days ago that Canadian exports have to go through 5 checkpoints, this at the Pacific Northwest (Washington) entrance. He said at times there are semis lined up for 6 or 7 miles. They have had to spend so many hours, days, with a bewildering and seemingly arbitrary mess of red tape, which keeps on changing and growing, that his company almost decided not to do business with the US anymore. I thanked him that he still was becasue we really need his particular products. He told me that China will buy EVERYTHING Canada is willing to sell them, raw materials, finished product, agricultural commodities, and he thinks there is a shift to that market already. He does not understand why the US is making it so nearly impossible to get goods in. He has never experienced anything like what has evolved over the last few years. He can only think it's the US "retaliating" for something...

[achtung_circus]

7. I'm not convinced that it's retaliation.

If there is an element of retaliation, it's just the icing on the cake.

There has been a strong element of protectionism in the US for a long, long time. The English-speaking influx from the US at the end of the American Revolution, what the US would call Tories and Canadians call United Empire Loyalists created the kernel around which Canada grew. If the US had played their cards correctly or if the Brits had made a suitable gaffe I might be saluting the Stars and Stripes. So there's an element

There is also the Manifest Destiny dynamic at work in the minds of some.

But God or the Universe or fate has been kind to what is now Canada in the matter of resources. I, and my attitude is not uncommon, look south and see a bountiful land that has been wasted, paved and spoiled. Canada retains much of what we were given. We have problems, true. You'll get no argument from me on that count.

Water, is the hill I'm willing to die on. If we're going to draw a line, and I believe that it's time we did, it should be drawn before water becomes a trade issue. It is seen as some as a trade issue, but it's so much more. I've heard talk of the water "wasted" by being allowed to flow unused into the Arctic Ocean. The ducks (and a lot more) would argue whether it's truly wasted solely because it hasn't been "developed".

[yvr girl]

8. The US has a long history of being protectionist and an isolationist

country. The events of the 20th century pulled them kicking and screaming onto the world stage. (Of course the current gov't thinks that the world is their playground.) I think 9-11 re-awakened some of these tendencies. On some levels I can't blame them for the reaction, they were attacked. But they seem to be a wild animal lashing out at anything within reach.

I think they see Canada as their soft underbelly. They don't get us and our socialist ways. We make them vulnerable. They are trying to push the boundaries of their fortress further and further out.

Trade is just a small element of this. Dammit, the world will march to the beat of their drum.

I agree with you about the resources. They want our power, oil, gas and water so much is scares me. We need to protect our sovereignty.

[CHIMO]

10. Everyone Here Would Probably

Agree that this would be a hammer to use. But how do you convince Alberta and Quebec that this is the way to do it.

In addition one has to consider the effects from outside if such a policy were to be taken. Just listen to one of the illuminate.

http://weekendinterviewshow.com/InterviewDisplay.aspx?i=64

Select the MP3 or Stream on the left hand side. The talk is about 45 minutes.

The elephant and the mouse.

[ConcernedCanuk]

11. Won't be any trade war - China's already taking dibs on oil and beef

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and more . .

The US is taking advantage of being our largest trade partner, figuring we are "dependant" on their market

Well, farmers, manufacturers, loggers, etcetera aren't waiting for the governments to do their dance

Canada is actively searching, and getting markets outside of North America

So, down the road, when the USA NEEDS our products, and they are already committed overseas . .

too fricken bad

:nopity:

[achtung_circus]

12. Amen, nt