Voter id.Is it the issue that turns my Blue state red?

[gizmo1979]

If they get just 2% of the minority vote to disappear that turns the entire state repug.I think this is an important issue flying under our radar.Don't get fooled again!

[Maria Celeste]

1. Not sure what is so wrong with IDs

If we are really interested in a clean vote, we should support some sort of voter ID, and perhaps even logging. Consider:

- Easy cross check of # of ballots vs # of people who voted
- No more voting from the grave
- Kills objections to motor voter and same day registration.

If we want a clean and accountable process, Voter IDs will have to be part of it.

[RetroLounge]

2. We haven't needed them in over 200 years

so why now? and why a Repug issue?

It's just the Repugs framing the issue. THEY are the ones with the Diebold machines and the ones who steal elections, but then whine about election Fraud.

It is all about minority disenfranchisement.

To believe otherwise is bullshit.

RL

[Maria Celeste]

3. How so?

If someone is legal to vote, requiring proof is not discriminatory if it is required of everyone. I also don't see it as a repug issue as much as an establishment issue. Chicago is not repug country and they are famous for the voting dead.

Open voting systems with cross checks are a step in the right direction. Can't really have that without verification of eligibility at the polling place.

Fundamentally I want clean elections since I believe that when we do, the progressive side will the one claiming a mandate. If the repugs want to help speed that along, all the better.

[MessiahRp]

4. I think it's conflicting

The way the lunatic Right in the Assembly are pushing this, there is no chance for this to be used as some sort of fair system.

Sure in concept the universal ID is not a bad idea but it ends up being just another way for the Government to control your vote and ability to do so and that could be dangerous considering who owns the media, the voting machines and who controls many of the Secretary of State positions that would purposely force counties to cheat for the guy they're campaigning for.

Also to me it's like another way for the FBI to racially profile citizens.

On the surface it sounds good but when you read into the intentions of these wackos, it gets scarier by the moment.

Rp

[Maria Celeste]

8. Perhaps I am being over optimistic, but...

The repugs are convinced that they are not getting the landslide they deserve due to "illegal" voters. Many of us believe that the repugs are guilty of a wide variety of vote fraud. Unlike a lot of societal issues, this is one where things can be addressed quantitatively with the support of technology. Diebold is superb example of it should not be done. However, that does not mean a fair system with checks and safe guards can not be built. However as part of it, voter identification and authentication will have to be done.

Luddite rants about by some on both sides about paper ballots was good enough for the last whatever years is simply an invitation for more of what we have seen in the last two elections. Effective and fair solutions can be developed if we choose to. I tend to think those (on both sides) who are resistant to building a honest polling system are afraid that somehow their side will lose power. Have to wonder why Move On and others have not stepped up with an alternative approach. If Dean becomes DNC chair, I hope he takes this on.

As for the optimistic part, I believe that if the polls were indisputably honest we would win.

[EC]

17. No, no, no

"The repugs are convinced that they are not getting the landslide they deserve due to "illegal" voters. "

This statement is wrong, they aren't convinced of that at all, they merely proclaim that as a miss-direction and cite as the need for the cards....they KNOW they can't disenfranchise enough people to win without the cards, that's the only reason they are screaming...do not take what they say as truth, it's all talking points to mislead...

[RetroLounge]

5. Chicago famous for the voting dead?

Really. Got statistics? How many over how many years, how many elections, which dead? Which way did they vote? Are the dead more independant or do they lean left or right? Did you see any dead vote? Do you know any dead who voted?

or maybe it's just a funny story that happenned back in 1960 and now gets repeated by every single right wing media whore and bought by the compliant sheep?

Baaaaaaahhhhhhh.

RL

[mark414]

7. it's hard for people who have never had a problem with their license

to understand why this is such a big issue

come to milwaukee and talk to some folks for a few minutes...and you'll see just how important it is that this DOESN'T pass

[Maria Celeste]

10. Wisconsin

Can't be worse than DC DMV or the MVA. Its just not possible... :-(

[mark414]

15. it's not the DMV

over 50% of black men in jail in Milwaukee are there for driving while under revocation...it seems that's their solution for any crime here, just take their licenses away

this is about disenfranchisement and disenfranchisement only

[LiberalFighter]

14. It is a means for Repugs to intimidate voters

That is the only purpose for the ID requirement by them. Once enacted it gives them a tool to intimidate without recrimination.

[DrGonzoLives]

22. And we've had electoral funny business for over 200 years

How is it about minority disenfranchisement? I hear this all the time, yet nothing to back it up. Most already have a photo I.D., it's called a driver's license.

You have to show a driver's license to do all kinds of stuff, why not voting?

[gizmo1979]

25. Go down to Milwaukee and ask

non-white people to see an id.They don't trust government,.with just cause i might add

[mark414]

27. it's not so much that...

as it is the courts being all too willing to strip someone of their license for a completely unrelated offense.

over 50% of black men in jail in milwaukee are there for driving with a revoked license

a good friend of mine's husband has been in jail 3 times in the past year because they don't have enough money to pay off ridiculous fines he has gotten for no reason, but he still has to go to work so he has no other choice but to drive. and it doesn't help him any that he's black so of course he's never going to get a second chance or get off with a warning or anything like that, ESPECIALLY not in milwaukee

[RetroLounge]

6. Then you go ahead and work for it in Maryland

We'll take care of Wisconsin.

RL

[Maria Celeste]

9. I shall

After many disappoints on the national level, I have started to focus my efforts on local things. IME, Senators and Congress Critters tend to lose their connection to the electorate rapidly. I don't really trust any of them.

Local politics and efforts seem to be much more effective. Also people can see the results where they live. Unfortunately, MD is backwards in some of its structure, limiting what can be done locally. Power is really concentrated in the state level (there is a name for the structure that I can find at the moment). I also intend to get back out of MD to a better area in the next few years, for the sake my children if nothing else.

[gizmo1979]

11. You don't get it.

Ask yourself why would repugs be pushing this so hard?They know minorities will stay away all they need is 2% in Wisconsin and then the state is theirs.This is part of the bastards big scheme to dominate for along time!They know they can't win the minority vote.So their only hope is to disenfranchise!THIS IS BAD!!!

[RetroLounge]

12. Agreed.

All politics is local.

RL

[LiberalFighter]

13. ID is required when registering to vote for the first time

That should be sufficient

Precincts are not the size of medium sized cities that election officers don't know who is a resident in the precinct. If an election officer has reason or knowledge that the person is not the voter then they should challenge. If a person in line knows of a person that is not who they say they are then they should alert the officials.

Voters sign in to receive a ballot. If that signature does not appear to be the signature of the voter then the election officer should challenge.

If precinct committee persons do their job they would keep a list of those that die within in their precinct and have it available on election day for their people to challenge.

ID requirement WON'T prevent # of ballots not matching # of people voting. That is a problem of election officers not paying attention.

[sybylla]

18. ID isn't requried to register, only the numbers from your ID

You do not have to show any ID to register, you only have to have your DL# or the last 4 digits of your SS#. That's it. ID had not been required at all when registering to vote until 2003 and since then it has only been required in a few municipalities. I have never, ever had to provide anything but proof of residency to vote in 23 years. HAVA will now require that all municipalities collect that ID info when you register but you still do not have to show photo ID.

And I agree - that should be sufficient. If poll workers are properly trained and have all the tools they need at hand to insure proper voting, nothing further is needed.

[DrGonzoLives]

23. If, if, if

If poll workers are trained - are they supposed to know everyone in a precinct?

Backin Indiana, all you have to do is tell the worker your name and address, then sign the sheet. You have no idea how ridiculously easy that system would be to abuse. It's not like they have a master signature list so they no if a signature is false, and I seriously doubt any local government has the means to higher experts to go over all signatures from all precincts in an area to see if there is any fraud going on.

Believe me, if it's cheaper to check for photo ID's at polling stations, state and local governments will want it. They like saving money.

[sybylla]

24. the key words were proof of residency

If the poll worker doesn't know me and I can show my cable bill, my tax bill or my lease with the same name and address as appears on their registration list, then I should be able to vote. And yeah, in my precinct, the nice ladies who work the polls know just about everybody in the district because they've lived here forever. They'd know if your story reeked of BS. They'd know if your address was bogus. They'd know if your name was unfamiliar. And they do their job.

I read the stories in the Journal Sentinel the past few weeks. All of the problems the paper is whining about (bad addresses, poor record keeping) could have been resolved if the poll workers did their job. Perhaps they could have done their job better if the pukes didn't have their poll watchers breathing down their necks all day long.

My problem with ID is that requiring proof of anything disenfranchises the homeless and the transient. The cry for ID gets legs only because puke legislators cry about some great Dem conspiracy to bring fraudulent voters to the polls. I must have missed that meeting.

Just as I prefer my justice system to err on the side of letting a criminal go rather than convict an innocent person, I'd prefer a voting system that let a few vote improperly over a system that prevented even one person who had the right to vote from doing so.

[EC]

16. They wouldn't be so hyped up about them if there

weren't an underlying agenda...they also know it will result in less Democratic votes, since many are from lower working class, who don't have the time to take off work to get an picture ID, many of whom move around allot and will have to get a new ID each time to keep address currant, and they are talking about a fee for them also...

Plus I worry that this is a lead-in to a national ID...


on edit: and the states they are really pushing this in are the ones they lost by only a few percentage points...what does that tell you? It's amazing they KNOW they lost because dead people voted...isn't it a secret ballot? Those dead people they love to talk about most likely voted R...

[shoelace414]

19. And I saw no audit of Waukesha

[suffragette]

20. reason to be concerned

I'm not from Wisconsin, but I started seeing the issue of voter ID coming up more frequently. I started looking into it and quickly started hitting articles about national ID. I think you're right to be concerned.
Legislation has already passed to standardize state driver's licenses and state issued ID cards so as to create a de facto national ID. Now there is additional legislation being pushed to make the requirements for that more stringent. Sensenbrenner's bill on this is on the floor of the House already.
At the same time, there are strong pushes in some states to mandate more specific Voter ID. From what I've read of the Wisconsin bill, it restricts that ID to the same ID that is to be standardized.
I posted a longer piece with the pertinent links here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x323026

I am becoming very concerned by these developments and think we will need to address them at both the state and federal levels.

[shoelace414]

21. Sensenbrenner represents Wisconsin

and he's making invalid Wisconsin's drivers licence as a valid state ID

[suffragette]

26. Not exactly. He's twisting the arms of the states to give over state

control of deciding ID issuance to the Feds.
If passed, HR 418 will give the states this choice, stop issuing driver's licenses to undocumented immigrants or have your state ID cards and driver's licenses unacceptable as federal ID. He's counting on the states that currently issue licenses to undocumented immigrants to no longer issue these by the threat to invalidate state licenses and ID cards for use in boarding planes or entering federal courts, etc.

Here's the pertinent section on that from Sec 202:
(11) In any case in which the State issues a driver's license or identification card that does not satisfy the requirements of this section, ensure that such license or identification card--

(A) clearly states on its face that it may not be accepted by any Federal agency for any official purpose; and

(B) uses a unique design or color indicator to alert Federal agency and other law enforcement personnel that it may not be accepted for any such purpose.

Here's a link to whole bill:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:h418: