**TXDot Outsourcing: Plans Tollroad in NE Tarrant: Loop 820-N to I35-W...$4.00 one way 6.25 miles**

[MagickMuffin]

I received the following email today. Anyone who travels this stretch of Loop 820 should try and attend the meeting tomorrow and let your voice and concerns be known. I try and avoid this stretch of highway because of the traffic but I certainly don't think we should turn it into a toll road. Please read this and be prepared to be outraged.:grr:

The Texas Department of Transportation is proposing outsourcing local road improvements to a foreign company to build toll lanes along north Loop 820 from the Northeast Mall in Hurst to I-35W in north Fort Worth.

The toll for this 6.25 mile stretch of highway is estimated to be $4.00 one-way.

There is no cap on what toll can be charged.

The Texas Department of Transportation will have no control over what toll is charged by this private foreign corporation.

The toll will not be removed when the road is paid for; the foreign roadbuilding company can continue to charge the toll long after the road is paid for.

A public hearing to present the planned improvements (?) to IH 820 will be held tomorrow Tuesday, July 1st at the Richland Hills Church of Christ, 6300 North East Loop 820, North Richland Hills, TX 76180. Click here for a map. Displays will be available for viewing at 6:30 p.m. with the formal hearing commencing at 7:00 p.m.

Taxes collected on every gallon of gasoline sold in Texas are supposed to be spent on maintaining existing roads and building new roads in Texas.
Where have gas-tax revenues been spent in Texas?

Do you think Tarrant County has received its fair share of this revenue to improve and build OUR roads that we already paid for?
Where did our tax dollars go?

Why do we have to pay a gasoline tax AND pay a toll tax to drive on roads we already paid for?

If you don't mind being double-taxed to have adequate roads to drive on, stay home tomorrow night. If you want answers to these questions, come to the TxDot hearing.


edit: changed title

[tammywammy]

1. Holy Crap! $4!!!

And Texas supposedly has this budget "surplus." Why are we having to get all these freaking toll roads!

[MagickMuffin]

2. HIGHWAY ROBBERY that's what it is.

:mad:

Imagine $4 bucks just to drive 6.25 miles. I guess I'll try and attend the meeting and let them know this isn't what we Texans need. We need for the TX DOT to fund our freeways.

In my community we voted over a decade ago to fund repairing our streets along with adding more law enforcers. Every year the law enforcers get whatever they need, however, some of our worse streets that see the most traffic have gone untouched. One that I travel quite often is soooo bad it's almost beyond drivable.

[MrsBrady]

3. damn, i have to work

is this the only hearing planned in this area?

and that is right by my house!!!!

[MagickMuffin]

7. I'm not sure other planned meetings

I wasn't able to attend because I've taken on an illness.

But I would think there would be some more meetings planned. I will try and contact Mid Cities Democrats and find out if anyone attended and how the meeting turned out.

I'll try and keep you posted.

[tbyg52]

4. They're funnelling all the money they can to their buds

before they (hopefully) get thrown out.

[shagsak]

5. I don't know

Texas has a way of keeping toll projects in NTTA's hands. I'm curious to see how it turns out.

[shagsak]

6. BTW

TxDOT is going through a "remodelling process" where they have to prove to the government (federal) that they know how to handle the monies they are given to improve our roadway infrastructure. Their funding has been drastically slashed the past two years so expect to see quite a few more toll projects in the future. I have attached a link to the Sunset Advisory Commission Staff Report for more info.

http://www.sunset.state.tx.us/81streports/txdot/txdot.pdf

[MagickMuffin]

8. Thanks for the link, shagsak

I've downloaded it and will read thru it.

:hi:

[MrTriumph]

9. Democrats turn out to oppose TOLLIZATION of Tarrant County

http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/736405.html

I was there. Here is my report: N. Tarrant officials sent out e-mails to bring out a crowd in support. A dozen local Democrats came and passed out flyers opposing the toll plan outside. TxDOT had asked opponents leave the building to distribute material.

The TxDOT hearing was orchestrated to make it appear the North Tarrant Express tollway is a slam dunk (it is not). Funding is still uncertain, especially after 2 toll companies backed out of the bidding process demanding TxDOT guarantee tolls.

There was a break about 7:40. When reconvened for public comments, it was a surprise when announced the first to the mic would be a parade of elected persons. Most of them praised the plan (avoiding the word "toll" as much as possible). Even persons in appointed positions in city governments were allowed to comment in this parade of support. Two speakers read letters into the record for others which seemed interesting since comments could simply be submitted unread. One could speculate it was all for show. In addition, to use a sport analogy, TxDOT was running out the clock. Many persons on both sides left as it was getting late.

Once the officialdom was spent, Chris Utchell, Democratic candidate for Tx House Dist. 91, spoke. He strongly supported new roads but was critical of the plan.

One could also speculate TxDOT and the officials were hoping to push opponents back past the 10:00 p.m. news deadline. It did not work. Chris Utchell was on Channel 11.

Noteworthy, if you listened very carefully, a few elected officials had some reservations of the plan.

As the linked article illustrates, even with the mantra of 'consumer choice' (that's what Commissioner Gary "Tolltag" Fickes says you exercise when stuck in insufficient free lanes and, desperate to get moving, you bolt to a toll lane) the opposition made the case against the tollway effectively. Reporters who stayed late saw a better picture of the feelings of North Texans than those who left early.

BTW, notice the Star-Telegram reporter included questions asked of TxDOT in the write up. As you might expect, answers were not provided.

[Lithos]

10. At some point in the near future

I half expect to hear of a major bribery or conflict of interest scandal involving the TxDOT, Toll Companies, local politicians and of course large construction firms.

[Baby Snooks]

14. At some point?

Do you live in Texas? This whole controversy was brewing before the 2006 election which explains why Governor 39% only got 39% of the vote and I suspect at this point he would be Governor 29%. Some Republicans never learn. Some, however, do. But not enough to make a difference.

In 2010 the Texas Republican Party will make sure there are at least 3 Independent candidates on the ballot. To make sure that Rick Perry wins with 29% of the vote. The only good thing that will come out of the 2010 Republican primary is that Kay Bailey Hutchison will probably go hide for the rest of her term as a US Senator after he roasts and toasts her and serves her as an appetizer to the citizens of Texas.

The motto of the Texas Republican Party is "Corrupt and Proud of It."

Rick Perry is their number one poster boy. Smiling while shooting the bird at everyone.

We have four political parties in this country. The Republican Party, the Democratic Party, the Republicrat Party which is now hijacking the Democratic Party now that it has taken over the Republican Party, and then we have the Texas Republican Party. And if the Texas Republican Party can figure out a way to do it, at some point in the near future the real scandal will be Rick Perry declaring that Texas has seceded finally and he has sold Texas to Spain. And no he will not disclose the names of the shareholders in the new international corporation that was once known as the State of Texas. But you can just look up who supports the Texas Republican Party to find out who they are.

[shagsak]

11. Just to clarify

This will not be a Toll Only facility. It will be what is known as a 3-2-2-3. Which means 3 free lanes and 2 toll lanes in either direction. So you could still traverse the area without paying a toll. But if you wanted to avoid waiting in the 820 parking lot (currently two lanes), you could spend a little cash and jump on one of the toll lanes.

These projects arent necessarily a bad thing. Especially now that our transportation budget is diminishing (they will not be raising the gas tax any time soon). Toll roads are one of our last remaining means of funding roadway work. The builders basically pay for everything then collect the toll revenue for x years. Little to no state funding goes into them if they are negotiated properly, saving that money for other things. However I do disagree with outsourcing these projects to foreign countries, work that could be done by local Texas businesses. I am a firm believer in keeping the money in the community.

Instead of fighting the roadway construction, we should be fighting for the toll revenues or at least a portion of them. That money could go to future improvements or other positive uses within the community (schools, parks, etc.).

[MrTriumph]

12. May I help with your clarification

I don’t think anyone was unclear that the NTE involves free and toll lanes. It is, however a distinction without a difference.

Everyone wants to get traffic moving on NE Loop 820 and 121/183. The question is: Will the NTE get traffic moving?

Here is a link to the number and type of lanes offered:

http://www.dot.state.tx.us/local_information/fort_worth_district/north_tarrant_express/nte_map.pdf

What the chart reveals is in the first phase, NE Loop 820, only one new free lane will be available in either direction. For the one new free lane added, two toll lanes are created. Even if the proposal was approved and construction completed tomorrow, would one more free lane handle existing traffic needs? Is there any way it would be conceivable that one extra free lane would handle traffic when the project is competed in five or ten years?

The chart also is makes it clear the second phase on 121/183 between NE Mall
east to 161 gets no new free lanes.

So what does this mean? NTE proponents suggest the toll lanes will be a “consumer option”. But is that fair terminology? With only minimal new lanes on the first section and none in the second, taking toll lanes will be no option at all. Using toll lanes will be required if there is any chance in getting traffic moving. It is how the engineers have been instructed to design it.

Maybe there are people who enjoy paying for the roads others drive on and don't mind paying a toll for their own roads, but I suspect most people view that as double taxation.

[MagickMuffin]

13. Thanks for the info, MrTriumph

and for attending the meeting. I came down with something and didn't want to give it to anyone else.

I rarely use Loop 820 because of the traffic. There are so many other alternatives to getting around the area. That is what concerns me about a toll road for this stretch of highway is more people will opt for cities streets trying to avoid having to pay a fee for the highway and will put more stress on the city streets and the burden of the streets will become the burden of the communities.

I would think the cities surrounding Loop 820 would take that into consideration.

[MrTriumph]

15. Commentary on how NE Tarrant County traffic became worse than Houston's

INREX, a company that keeps traffic statistics recently issued a study (available on-line) with the conclusion Tarrant County is the bottleneck capital of Texas, worse than Houston. And NE Tarrant County has the top 4 spots! How did this happen?

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/columnists/bud_kennedy/

[MagickMuffin]

16. Loop 820 was suppose to be expanded years ago, but they never got around to it

because of the delay in the expansion of Loop 820 and the expansion of the housing market it put a burden on the commuters and this is what happens. When communities are over expanded without the expansion of our roadways it causes all sorts of problems for commuters.

Denton Hwy and Rufe Snow bridges were expanded to accommodate for the expansion of Loop 820 back in the mid 90's, however the TX DOT did not fulfill their obligations to our communities with the expansion of the Loop.

And then there is the portion of Loop 820, the highway goes down to 2 lanes in each direction from Highway 10 to Randol Mill. Another nightmare for commuters.

Our tax dollars were suppose to fund the expansion of the roadways. So, the question is Why aren't they going to these projects and Where is the funds going?.?.?

[shagsak]

17. Thanks for the input.

Keep in mind that Texas is a rapidly growing state in every respect. That being said the state's infrastructure is in need of overhaul (IH820 is a good case in point) to accommodate the growth. Since gas prices are increasing exponentially, people are driving less or starting to drive more fuel efficient vehicles. Over the next 10 or so years I expect the rate of gas consumption will drop exponentially, and with it, the transportation funding from the gas tax. In addition, the cost of construction, labor, and other expenses will rise to due inflation and gas prices. The gas tax has not gone up since it's inception, and public outcry will probably not allow it to.

The fact remains, if you want these roads built someone has to pay for it. And the gas tax simply will not keep up with our state's needs. IMO the alternative is still better than a toll only facility (PGBT, SH121, etc.) whereas you can still take the route without paying tolls. Adding one lane would help a little, but keep in mind that many people will jump on those toll lanes and alleviate some of the traffic on the free lanes. Those toll lanes will not go unused, trust me.

[MrTriumph]

18. TX is running a budget surplus. Gas tax diverted

I agree: "Adding one lane would help a little, but keep in mind that many people will jump on those toll lanes and alleviate some of the traffic on the free lanes. Those toll lanes will not go unused, trust me."

That is how North Tarrant Express is designed. The toll roads are no option, they are essential to keeping the traffic flowing.

However, your statement "Over the next 10 or so years I expect the rate of gas consumption will drop exponentially, and with it, the transportation funding from the gas tax" may or may not be true. The point is, regardless of the gas tax collected NE Loop 820 and Airport Freeway are well over capacity and expansion must be provided.

The Texas state gov't is running a $10-15 billion surplus. Gas taxes have been diverted for other needs and as a result will leave the treasury a big surplus. People in NE Tarrant pay gas taxes just like most Texans who enjoy FREE roads. Maybe residents of NE and N. Central deserve a Gas Tax Exemption if the state won't fund roads in that part of Tarrant County.

BTW, 820 is not an Interstate. It is Loop 820. I-20 runs as part of the southern portion of Loop 820 and that portion was recently rebuilt and expanded and is a FREE highway.

[Not Sure]

19. IH820 is indeed an Interstate highway

http://www.dot.state.tx.us/tpp/hwy/IH/IH0820.htm

An article on the 820/121/183 corridor that appeared in the Star Telegram a couple weeks ago included a link to a petition:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/we-need-mobility-solutions

It's interesting to see that NRH Mayor Oscar Trevino, PE, former Chair of the Regional Transportation Council, signed the petition.

[MrTriumph]

20. Thanks for the correction on the designation of 820

And anything involving Oscar "Tolltag" Trevino is worth noting.

[shagsak]

21. I agree expansion must be provided.

I also don't have enough information to argue TxDOT's current funding issues. We will have to wait for the Sunset review to conclude.

BTW, one typical highway interchange costs a few hundred million dollars. The high five was around 3 billion but that itself is an engineering marvel. If you look at the size of Texas and the many miles of roads it has, 10-15 billion won't get you much.