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Why the TX caucuses need to go -- 3 precincts' caucus votes won't count

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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:32 PM
Original message
Why the TX caucuses need to go -- 3 precincts' caucus votes won't count
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/story/518514.html



Hundreds of people were crammed into the tiny cafeteria at Atherton Elementary School in Arlington on Tuesday night.

They waited there, shoulder to shoulder, at precinct caucuses for more than two hours to declare their support for Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama for president. People who attended said the mood grew heated as participants lost confidence in whether their votes would be counted.

They had every reason to worry. The Tarrant County Democratic Party confirmed Friday that it had received envelopes with blank forms for all three precinct caucuses at the school.

"At this point, we don't have any record that anything happened there," said Keith Annis, the county party's executive director.

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MrTriumph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Don't panic
As someone who has attended pct conventions in the past, this is nothing new. The only thing new is the intensity because of the importance of the race and the energy the 2 candidates for pres. have created. In all likelihood, the paperwork will show up.

And because of the intensity of the event this year, the local press has been pounding us daily with horror stories of the pct. conventions. Gee, do you think they have an agenda of their own? Sure they do. And they intend to paint Democrats as undemocratic, disorganized, fools from now until election day.

So don't be taken taken in by the efforts of the local media to disparage Democrats and the system. Is the system chaotic? Sometimes. It always has been. Is it unfair? Sometimes, but overall it has worked satisfactorily in the past.

When you have an open pct convention where almost all the new participants have no experience with the process, and you multiply the number of participants by 10 fold or more, and you have 2 presidential campaigns bucking for every advantage with out-of-state staff (so called observers) that are as inexperienced at Texas procedures as the voters, well, things go pretty crazy.

Oh, does our local media have their own agenda? Here is another example: The Star-Telegram has yet to print the raw vote totals for uncontested races from the Dem.& Rep. primaries. Why? Consider that the Dem. candidates actually got more raw votes than incumbent Republican officeholders all over Tarrant County. THAT'S A HECK OF A STORY. And you don't see it in print.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. They are exposing the system for what it is --- undemocratic with lack of audits.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 04:54 PM by antigop
And I'm glad they are.

The system needs to go.
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MagickMuffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. No the system does not need to go anywhere
The voters NEED to educate themselves BEFORE showing up to the precinct convention.

I took the time to learn. Was there confusion, absolutely, only because voters did not do their homework and did not know the process.

My MIL was told at her senior citizens center that THEY had to vote twice. Which isn't true unless one wants to be a delegate or have resolutions submitted, there really isn't a reason to vote twice. It isn't mandatory.

Every packet came with a booklet with the rules and instructions on how to run a convention. I had to run one and knew enough to know out to do. When I turned in my paper work to the county HQ's, they told me I did everything correctly.

There was no excuse for whoever ran the conventions not to know how to do it.


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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. No-- the system NEEDS TO CHANGE BECAUSE IT IS NOT DEMOCRATIC.
and NOT EVERY VOTE GETS COUNTED.
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Lack of audits?
Please then explain to me why I spent two hours at home on Wednesday auditing my precinct rolls & then going to the county chair's office to turn in my results & audit someone else's precinct? I spoke with the chair today & they are STILL auditing the results locally, then they all get to the State & get audited AGAIN.

Nice try.

dg

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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. And how is each person WHO VOTED in the caucus supposed to AUDIT THEIR VOTE?
I'm sure EACH PERSON who voted in the caucus is supposed to check the sign-in sheets at the convention to ENSURE that the delegates they voted for ACTUALLY VOTE the way they were elected to do. And I'm sure that they KNOW that they need to do this because the delegates can vote HOWEVER they want.

Yeah, right. I'm SURE they know how to do all this.


So nice try yourself.
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. They "vote" by signing their name on the sheets
and filling out the other required information.

buh bye.

dg

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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. He knew that
He just wants to throw a fit because nobody cares what he thinks.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. And you didn't answer the question. Nice diversion though. n.t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Well Said
And thank you!
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I second that motion!
All in favor?

:hi: crispy!

dg
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MagickMuffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. This was also posted from GDP, by the very same poster
Ummmm, cross posting against DU rules. :shrug:

Looks as though they're just trying to sling the poo.



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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I suspect the HRC campaign is trying to drum up support
for a lawsuit against the TDP to nullify the caucus. There was another HRC person complaining about the WY caucus; when I asked why they didn't go to WY to help GOTV, all the poster said was they didn't want to "interfere" with the state's process. :wtf:

dg
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Oh, nice try AGAIN. Where have I EVER supported HRC? I NEVER HAVE.
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 10:36 PM by antigop
Go read my other posts.

<edit> I'm the one who coined the term "sHillary" months ago.

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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. Looks like a duck, etc nt
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. OK, prove it. Find a post where I have supported her. HINT: I coined the name "Shillary". n/t
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #28
61. Tapping foot-- still waiting for proof. Oh, that's right -- YOU CAN'T FIND ANY! N/t
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Nope just trying to show the truth. People are now waking up to it. n/t
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Well, maybe you need to check some of my previous posts on the TX forum. n/t
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. looks like I'm making some good points. HA! n/t
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. well, it must matter since you responded. n/t
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. Delete, dupe
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 06:52 PM by crispini
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
15. ooh, striking a nerve, am I? I guess so...it's tough to defend the indefensible. n.t
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
17. COUNT ALL THE VOTES! COUNT ALL THE VOTES! n/t
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TexasThoughtCriminal Donating Member (890 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
20. Instead of bitching, have you thought of volunteering?
I'm sure your county party and SD credentials committee could use some help straightening out this nightmare of paperwork and confusion. They could use some honest volunteers to sort things out and make sure all voters and precincts are not disenfranchised.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. It is easier to throw a tantrum than to volunteer
Our new friend is just taking the easy way out.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. Oh, nice try sweetheart. n/t
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. In case you haven't noticed
Your approach to this issue is not making any friends for you.

Your ideas are not popular here, but your insults are even less popular.

You can dig a hole for yourself as deep as you wish, but no one is interested in joining you in that hole.

As I said before, the problem with a pity party is the short guest list.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Well if you call telling the truth "digging a hole" you have a funny definition of the truth. n/t
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. LOL!
I knew you wouldn't get it.

Keep digging

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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. No, I knew you wouldn't get it. Keep making me laugh, though! n/t
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. You can count your friends on one fist.
You don't even need to use the fingers.

You have alienated everyone here.

If that was your goal, YOU WIN!

If you wanted other people to see things your way, YOU LOSE!

Congratulations, keep digging.

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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. pssst....go check the General Discussion forum-- other people are talking about how flawed caucuses
are and how they need to go.

We are shedding light on the process.

And SOMEONE doesn't like it.

Gee, wonder why?
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. For childish behavior we have these
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Oh are those your play toys? Meanwhile people are discussing how flawed caucuses are. n/t
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. and thank you again for the opportunity to let everyone know how flawed caucuses are. n/t
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Your snack has arrived, soon it will be nap time.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. psst...go check the other forum and see how people are finding out how FLAWED caucuses are n/t
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Did you need more?
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. did you check the other forum? People are talking about FLAWED caucuses and how they need to go
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 08:52 PM by antigop
n /t
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. It's nap time now, you need your rest.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Gee, I wonder why you're not interested in what people are saying about FLAWED caucuses. n/t
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. People who take naps aren't so cranky.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. There really is an interesting discussion there about FLAWED caucuses.
You really should read it.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Maybe a bubble bath would help
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Seems to me you are avoiding the topic of FLAWED caucuses. Why is that? n/t
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Poor thing, nobody wants to play with you
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. Oh, so now telling the truth is bitching. Too funny! n/t
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 08:19 PM by antigop
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TexasThoughtCriminal Donating Member (890 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #31
56. What about a resolution? Did you offer to propose one?
Did you offer a resolution at your precinct convention to get rid of this caucus system that you detest?
You never acknowledged my suggestion to help your county process the mountain of paperwork.

We offer you practical advice. The gates are wide open for you to go in and fix or change the system. But you'd rather sit outside, suck your thumb and hurl invectives.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
22. Sounds like the volunteeers didn't know what to do. Do you have time to volunteer?
I don't.

But almost everyone in that auditorium should've known that you had to SIGN SOMETHING to vote. I knew. I heard it somewhere, or I read it. Even if I hadn't, others there knew that.

I find it hard to believe that the auditorium was filled with 100% people totally ignorant of the process. Doesn't everyone in the U.S. know that you don't vote by a show of hands in our country? We either write something, or punch a button, or pull a lever.

Or maybe the people DID sign something, but a volunteer mailed in the wrong stack of forms? Maybe that's what happened. Which means the signed forms are still somewhere.

This is bound to happen, when our primary/caucus never counts, but suddenly it does. I didn't even know my precinct HAD a caucus, until this year.
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theredpen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. THOUSANDS of precincts ran smoothly despite record crowds
I'm surprised only 3 precincts screwed up. We'll do better next time — and there will be a next time.
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
27. I see your profile is blank.
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 06:28 PM by GOPisEvil
Probably because your state's elections run without a hitch. Oh yeah, in case anyone missed the :sarcasm:, :eyes:.

Here's a hint. You run your state, and let us run ours.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Hint: go check my previous posts in the TX forum before making accusations n/t
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #30
57. Ah, the sound of crickets from all the folks in this forum who have read your posts...
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 10:08 PM by Melissa G
Those who have read them, may think Crickets say it Best!
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. I'm STILL waiting for all of you to prove I'm a Hillary supporter. Still waiting. n/t
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. We're still waiting for you to realize that nobody cares
You may pout 'til your heart is content. You may throw a tantrum if you wish, but the fact remains that nobody wants to play with you.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. AHA! But you do -- because you keep trying to shut me up. n/t
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #64
70. Ah, the persecution complex
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #57
67. And did you even bother to check my posts pre-caucus? Hmmm...? I've posted here before n/t
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
33. Why do TX democrats support a process that is NOT democratic? I wonder....n/t
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
35. I really wonder why people keep defending this system. I wonder if they are somehow benefitting
from it. n/t
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #35
55. Yes we're all obviously benefiting from the system
:eyes:

Or we're all educated Texas dems that understand the system and like it the way it is.
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gore_as_a_compromise Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. Or like the ability to vote twice and override the will of the majority... *NT*
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. .
:eyes:
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
62. Why can't people realize that there are people who DON"T LIKE CAUCUSES!
You may like them -- I don't.

It galls me that my vote is not anonymous. I shouldn't have to let everyone know how I vote just to participate in the selection process.

PRIMARY ONLY. NO CAUCUSES.

And cut the cr*p about being an HRC supporter. If any of you would bother to check my previous posts, you'd find I'm one of the most anti-HRC people on DU.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. And why can't you accept that you are a minority.
And being a loud petulant minority is not helping your case.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
65. I think caucuses should go and we should have a primary only. n/t
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. boo fuckin hoo. n/t
:nopity:
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. Sorry, pal. I'm just going to have to put you on ignore. n/t
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. pobrecito
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
72. I would like to state that as a first-time caucuser I do not like it and have a right to my
opinion. There have been several threads in GD-P that have discussed the issue and I am not alone.

I may be a minority, but that doesn't mean that I can't voice an opinion.

And trying to shout me down ISN'T GOING TO WORK.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. que lastima
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
74. I would also like to state that the IGNORE button works great for me to IGNORE remarks from posters
who don't seem to respect my opinion.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. But I still get to post,
You just can't see what funny stuff I am posting!

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sonias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #75
76. cosmik, you make me laugh
I toast you, my friend. :toast:


Sonia
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. I've got a million of them
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. Best collection ever! I'm may have to borrow a few of these
to email to my teenagers when they start whining or being fussy.
Bookmarked!
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. Google Images supplies me.
Just search for "cry baby' "pout" "sad" "whiner" etc.

You get the picture. (tee hee)
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MrTriumph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-16-08 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
80. So, where is the follow up article that the paperwork did show up and everything is fine?
I have waited over 3 days for the person who started this thread to post what was in the Fox Worth Star-Telegram over 3 days ago. On the front page, in fact, although not nearly as pronounced as the over-the-top, sensationalist presentation of the first article. The paperwork showed up and there is no danger (there never really was) that the participants in the 3 precinct conventions in question would have their vote unheard.

Seems like if the person starting this thread was wanting to disclose the facts, that person would have posted the follow-up article.
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TexasThoughtCriminal Donating Member (890 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #80
81. As the OP seems unwilling to post anything that doesn't support his conspiracy theory,
I will. Thank you, MrTriumph, for pointing this out.
Results from three Arlington precinct caucuses found
By AMAN BATHEJA
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

The records from three Democratic precinct conventions have been found, the Tarrant County Democratic Party said Monday.

Results from three Arlington precincts that held caucuses at Atherton Elementary School were feared missing Friday after party officials said they received envelopes with blank forms for all of them.

Keith Annis, executive director of the Tarrant County Democratic Party, said he was not clear on why those three precincts -- 2027, 2235, and 2461 -- did not receive sign-in sheets, because prepared packets with the sheets for each of those precincts were returned to party headquarters unfilled. Participants from those precincts separately dropped off the paperwork from their caucuses, he said.
www.star-telegram.com/localelections/story/522913.html

I suspect the convention packet never got to the convention (uncooperative judge? no one claimed it? buried in election materials?) and got returned with the election materials, unopened and unsigned. Unfortunately the Startle Gram likes a good story and can't wait for the facts to come out. Kinda like some people on DU.


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