Pittsburgh rated most livable city for 2007.

[I Have A Dream]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07116/781162-53.stm

[DoctorMyEyes]

1. I don't get it...

I've been recently "transplanted" into Pittsburgh and I have to confess I just don't "get it". Despite all the positive comments I've heard and read about Pittsburgh, both before and since moving here I can't help but feel that I'm missing whatever it is that everyone is so excited about. Like failing one of those color blind tests when you can't see the red letter embedded in the green dotted background. ???

Sure - the housing is incredibly affordable. When pressed to say something nice about Pittsburgh (and I often am!) I can only fall back on "the people are extremely friendly" - which is true and I can say it with a straight face. They're also (in my experience) fiercely proud of this city. Why... I'm not exactly sure. Maybe it's because they've collectively been through so much - that's it's almost like a "nationalist" thing. Or maybe it's like the kid who defends and excuses his drug or alcohol addicted parent(?)

The weather is consistently lousy, the roads are in terrible condition, the taxes make a flaming lefty liberal cringe, the rivers are green and the trees are blackened.

I was told that I too would "love" this city - that it was clean and the landscape was beautiful. It's no cleaner, I think, than any other city and there's still a patina of soot from the steel/coal days that will probably linger for a few more generations. As for the landscape... To someone more accustomed to the rolling hills and green expanses of the east coast I find it appallingly "violent" looking.

Pittsburgh to me looks like it was "taken by force". There seems to have been little consideration for the natural contour of the earth - no evidence that there was the least bit of cooperation between nature and civilization. Mountains are whacked in half and their innards left exposed and crumbling. Tunnels are punched through the earth like gaping wounds.

Once while waiting in a miles long traffic jam my husband remarked about the water run off coursing down the mountain next to us. I told him I thought it was more a case of the mountain crying. For whatever reason there are precious few evergreens present in the city itself. Like they just packed up and left. The first time I looked at a google satellite photo of our Pittsburgh neighborhood (near a wooded area) I remember thinking "there must have been a fire". Nope - that's just what it looks like in the winter. Acres and acres of blackened naked trees. The only thing to indicate life is that they're still standing - standing among all their fallen brothers who clearly gave up and laid down.

One thing that I have to grudgingly admire is the willpower and courage of the men and women who built this city during it's boom time. You can't help but be impressed by the determination of people who are willing and capable of conquering such a terrain to build their houses on such precarious ledges of rock.

Sadly, most of their efforts and dreams were later dashed by corporate whim and economic disaster and now sit rotting and decaying back into the hillsides they'd once drilled, dug, and hacked into submission.

Sure there's "lots to do". Isn't there "lots to do" in any metropolitan area? So far, to me, it's little consolation for living in such an ugly violent landscape.

[Gatchaman]

5. DoctorMyEyes

I've lived in the greater pittsburgh metropolitan area all my life (40 years) and you've summed up this area better than I've ever seen it done.

[DoctorMyEyes]

7. I could hug you

:hug: I've felt so all alone here. Like I must be crazy for not seeing what everyone else is seeing - or conversely seeing something no one else seems to.

[FREEWILL56]

33. I'm from the eastern suburbs and posted a comment in

the following thread concerning living and working in Pittsburgh: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=175&topic_id=12567&mesg_id=12567

[qanda]

13. I was born and raised in Pittsburgh

Along with my four siblings, only one of my sisters remains there. My husband comes from a family of eight and only three of his siblings are still there (one who just returned). The people who leave Pittsburgh probably love it more than the people who are still there. "The most livable city Pittsburgh" is more of an ideal than it is a reality. The people *do* have a lot to do with the city's charm. I still miss the relationships I left there-- I have yet to make a really close friend here in Maryland. But the job market and the crime, especially in the East End where I grew up, make it not a very good place to live and raise a family.

You should submit your post to a local paper-- it sums up Pittsburgh perfectly.

[DoctorMyEyes]

15. Gosh, I'd be afraid!

I'd be so afraid to express my feelings about Pittsburgh in the local paper. I'm not even sure what came over me that I let it all out here! lol I guess I just couldn't hold it in any more.

I think it's so sad that so many people like you, your siblings and your husbands siblings had to leave. There are a lot of "ghosts" here - remnants of people and their lives and dreams. I guess the least I can do while I'm here is try to be respectful of the feelings of those who are still here trying to carry on. They're so "invested", you know?

I'm just some sort of long term tourist with no real right to judge.

[dropkickpa]

16. I beg to differ

I've grown up in the east end (Morningside) and am raising my daughter here, as are my brother and his wife, and his ex-wife lives here too. I think it is a fantastic place to raise kids. For one, there's sidewalks (you don't get those in the burbs) and a ton of kids, my kid plays soccer, baseball, and participates in the MANY neighborhood activities here. There is a BIG turnaround happening in the east end, it's really exciting. Of course, it's not going to happen overnight, but I see definite signs of change everywhere. Even in classically depressed areas such as Homewood and Wilkinsburg, there are slow but steady changes being made, and community groups putting considerable energy and effort into trying to bring about improvements.

[qanda]

17. I am from Homewood

My sister still lives there and my mother is staying with and taking care of my elderly grandmother in East Liberty. Last year when I was there, I had just heard my sister leave for work when someone started shooting right outside the house. My sister was okay, but the guy started shooting right in front of her-- my sister, my children and I were traumatized. Almost as traumatized as I was before I left Pittsburgh and we would hear people shooting every night. My sister and my mother were both minutes away from being caught in the shoot-out with the police that happened on Lincoln Avenue last week. That is no way to live and definitely no way to raise kids. There are less depressed areas of the East End, but Wilkinsburg, East Hills, Homewood and East Liberty are far from those places.

Until I moved here, I didn't know what it meant to live in relative peace. Of course, crime happens everywhere but there is no reason why anyone should have to live their life like they're in a war zone. I love Pittsburgh and I think all of my siblings and husband's siblings would say the same thing. You see my avatar is the Steelers and my heart is always in the city I was born and raised in. But when I think of moving back home, I think of not having anything to come home to.

[dropkickpa]

18. Homewood, one of the

forgotten communities. But, I am hearing more about efforts to bring attention to the problems there. The problems in Homewood are bad, yes, but I am hopeful that there is some move on to make a change. East Liberty IS changing, and I believe that these changes will start to affect surrounding communities. In the last several decades, East Liberty was ignored (even though, at one point, it was the third largest "downtown" shopping district in the state), but there is tremendous interest and development happening in East Liberty right now, commercial development, which will bring in (and has been bringing in) jobs, which will have a large effect on the area.

You can't characterize the entire city by Homewood, just as NYC can't be characterized just by Harlem, ignoring Manhatten, Queens, Wall Street, etc. Taken as a whole, Pittsburgh is great. I am sorry that you and your family have had to experience the worst of what Pittsburgh has to offer.

[DoctorMyEyes]

19. Ack! Don't go dissing Harlem!

I'm a former NYer and my son lives in Harlem. Has for the past 11-12 years. He practically needs a stick to beat the yuppies off his brownstone.

I get the point you were trying to make though - even if your idea of Harlem is dated by about 30 years. Yes, every city has run down less safe areas. But, honestly I've never seen one as "chock full" as Pittsburgh. Even the areas that aren't "dangerous" can be downright depressing in their decay.

I hope it does turn around. I admire your optimism and committment to see it through. My own employer is banking on it and came here to take part in the revitalization, providing jobs and tax revenue. (It's been a bumpy start...)

[dropkickpa]

20. I'll have to take some pictures of my neighborhood

and post them. There are many areas just like it all over the city. Even in depressed areas, if you just look at the homes, there's good bones there, something to build on. My neighborhood is not a yuppie-topia like Shadyside or Squirrel Hill, just a working class neighborhood that made it through the depression of the 80's relatively unscathed (I would never have to leave here to get my house plumbed, re-wired, brick repointed, painted, sidewalk poured, landscaped, etc etc). There are no millionaires here, no million dollar homes. Just working class people trying to make good lives for their families.

I think one difference is the very high owner-occupation rate. Also, many of the rental properties are owned by neighborhood residents, so there's that pride thing going on. The city needs to work on getting more owner-occupation in depressed areas, working harder for fedaral funds for improvements, such as HUD loans and the like, tax breaks for those working to improve their neighborhoods. Slum lords need to be gone after with everything we've got, increasing the number of housing inspectors to enforce the rules (with all the busy-bodies on my neighborhood, the few slum lords who try to come in have a LOT of trouble keeping up the slum game).

The police department needs to make a stronger effort to patrol and make all areas safer, not just a mall parking lot because of a fluke crime that could happen anywhere (Waterworks carjacking case).

We need to encourage more national retailers and the like to build within the city, rather than siphoning the wealth out to the suburbs (Target is supposedly planning to build a store in East Liberty, which I think will be a great for the area). East Liberty has a Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Borders, Starbucks, and there are others looking at East Liberty now when they most definitely would not have even 5 years ago. There's a mix of affordable housing, lofts, condos, and such slated to be built there, there's going to be a huge change in the way the neighborhood is perceived. I firmly believe there is going to be an echo of this boom spreading out from there to surrounding neighborhoods. I have noticed a LOT more homes in "bad" areas being restored, and there is a definite ripple effect.

It's an exciting time to be living here, I can't wait to see what is coming.

[distantearlywarning]

31. I live in North Pt. Breeze

Just down the street from the new East Liberty stuff. There are a bunch of houses in my neighborhood being restored right now - some of them look like people are spending some big bucks on them (like probably in the neighborhood of ~100K, which is HUGE for Pittsburgh). These are big fancy houses that were once owned by the industrialists, and I'm sure they will make some rich people very happy after they are restored to their former glory. Whatever else is happening in Pittsburgh, this area (Penn Ave. corridor) is really coming up in the world. Just in the few years I've been here, I can't believe the changes in this area. It's amazing. Also, I read just recently that housing prices in E. Liberty & Pt. Breeze are increasing faster than anywhere else in the city (hopefully my house also in the next few years).

Also, someone said that Pittsburgh is losing population - Well, I read just recently a statistical analysis that showed that it was because of a generation gap after the steel mills closed in the 80s. Basically all of the young workers left Pittsburgh at that time and took their children with them. Those children who left would be young parents now, but since they went away, they didn't have kids here so there's a generation gap which is causing the appearance of a population decline as the old people die. However, contrary to popular belief, the young people who are currently here (for college and so forth) are not actually leaving at a higher rate than in any other U.S. city. So basically if we keep going at the same rate we are now, eventually the population decline will begin reversing (10-20 years maybe). If you take the generation gap into account, Pittsburgh is actually doing better than many other northern U.S. cities at retaining a young and educated population.

I'll try to find that report and post it later, because it summed the actual situation up much better than I am doing now.

[qanda]

24. I don't understand what you're saying

How can I characterize Pittsburgh as anything but my experience? I don't know how many ways to say that I love Pittsburgh, but when more people are leaving than are entering the city there are some questions that need to be answered about just how liveable Pittsburgh really is.

[dropkickpa]

25. And your experience

Is in the most depressed neighborhood in the city. But you make it seem as if the entire city is that way, and it is not, far from it. I am presenting a differing view, one just 2 miles from Homewood. Changes for the better are happening, and will continue to happen. I don't doubt that you love this town.

[tigereye]

21. wow.

Drive through Frick Park now, in spring. I can't think of many places more beautiful, and the flowering trees on many streets are gorgeous. The view from Mt. Washington, or the top of Shadyside Hospital, or Allentown is great. When you fly into Pittsburgh, it looks like a big green bowl, lots of trees. And the rivers are very pretty.

I think our weather is terrible, the roads can and do suck, and there is some serious provincial thinking, at times.

But in spring, summer and fall, the city is lovely. The place you describe sounds more like winter to me.


If you want to see serious violence, look at pix of the Burgh in the 1880's to the 1970s. That was some serious environmental violence, and I suspect you are still seeing the bones of those periods.

[DoctorMyEyes]

22. I was describing Pittsburgh winter

I only moved here in February, and with spring arriving late I'm just describing what I've observed since I've been here. The abuse is glaringly exposed (to me at least) in it's winter "nakedness". And yes - 90 years of environmental violence is evident. I guess when whatever is alive finishes greening up it will provide temporary cover - or at least a distraction from the cuts and bruises.

You know how every city has some kind of "slogan"? I joke with my husband that Pittsburgh's should be "Don't tell me no, bitch!". ("bitch" in this case being mother nature) Mankind has been like an abusive spouse here, insensitive, callous and demanding. Industry came here and took what it wanted by whatever means necessary and then after it used up the resources (including dependent working families) it left.

I imagine if it glanced back at all it was only to say "clean yourself up, bitch".

I hope this city does heal. God knows the people here deserve a break as much as the landscape itself.

Oh, but I don't want to overlook the chance to say something positive. Wild turkeys! Aside from the wonderful and generous people here I have to say wild turkeys are pretty freakin' cool! Up here on Mt. Washington where there's not even six feet of clearance between many of the houses wild turkeys are a common and delighful sight while driving up Sycamore Street.

[dropkickpa]

23. Oh, just you wait

One month and you won't believe it's the same town. The greenery will be rioting and you'll be amazed at the difference between winter and the rest of the year. February is the bleakest month in Pittsburgh, so you haven't really seen how beautiful she really is.

This is one of my favorite sites, this guy is a fantastic photographer. http://www.pittsburghskyline.com/

[DoctorMyEyes]

26. Nice photography!

Thanks for the link. The photographer really has an eye for capturing interesting elements and the skyline.

To be honest - I have a terrific view from our temporary apartment in Mt. Washington. Not of "the point", we can't see the stadium to the left but get from about the Melon building to that "Cathederal of Learning" (or is it Cathederal of Education?) the Mon, and four bridges from the window in the back.

I wasn't expecting it when we moved in and the sun was going down as we started bringing in boxes. I was "gobsmacked" when I finally saw the city lit up beneath us. It wasn't until we started driving around house hunting that I started to feel "uneasy" for lack of a better word.

For better or worse - we're here. We'll make the best of it and do our part to hopefully better the community we live in.

One of the first things on my own "to do" list, (after I finishing battling with HUD over the home we're buying) is to try to talk to Mike Doyle or whoever I can about finding some federal relief via HUD, the EPA or maybe both for Pittsburgh homeowners being affected by the dye test ordinance. I agree with the ordinance that it was pretty stupid to tie storm water drains into the sanitary sewer system but apparently it was legal and accepted practice for many years. To place the cost of correcting it directly into the lap of individuals with moderate incomes in modest homes is ridiculous. It's like they picked on the most vulnerable, least powerful to be stuck with the bill for a problem they didn't create.

No wonder there are so many abandoned houses here. Between the taxes, the unemployment and the damn dye test it seems in many cases it's easier (and cheaper) to just walk away than even try to sell.

[tigereye]

27. I understand what you are saying, and I feel that way when I drive out

on the "river raod" along the Monongahela and see all the post-steel blight. There was not only environmental decay, but human decay and the loss of good jobs and homes for folks..


but it saddens me that you are unable to see the beauty of our city, post-industrial, but kind, proud, work-oreinted, and beautiful in it's own cranky way. I grew up in a classic small town, but I have grown to love this city.

Here's hoping it will "grow" on you some more.

[DoctorMyEyes]

28. the "kind and proud" is what makes it bearable

If someday I come to love this city it will be because I can't resist the extremely kind and fiercely proud people who inhabit it.

Another anecdotal story:

A while back my husband and I were waiting to cross a busy "main drag" kind of street. We were talking and in no particular hurry - not stepping out into the street or giving drivers any "beseaching" sort of looks. Just waiting for a break in the traffic...

All of a sudden traffic STOPPED! In both directions! The drivers were actually stopped and waving us across and no one behind them was honking in impatience. We're both pushing towards 50 years old and neither of us, in all our years had ever seen or expected to see such a thing. It was like a "parting of the red sea"! It made the hairs on my arm stand up.

The people here are mighty impressive. How such kindness is born out of this physical and economic landscape is a mystery to me.

[SteelPenguin]

29. It's more an average than anything

Pittsburgh is rated most liveable pretty much because the area doesn't totally suck at anything. We've been in the top ten every year, yet no single rating has been in the top twenty. Want better X? Go here. Want better Y? Go there. Average them alltogether though and Pittsburgh comes up pretty high.

I've lived all over and my wife and I chose to move back. We like it here the best, but each to their own. If you haven't experienced spring/summer/fall here I don't blame you. Winter can be very depressing in Pittsburgh, but once it greens up it's far greener, imho, than anywwhere out east.

Also I think to truly enjoy the area you have to be an outdoors person. There's so much to do within an hour of the city that is great, better and closer than for most other cities.

I think on the whole the reason we like it best is the character of the city and it's people. It's a little bit east coast and a little bit midwest. It's not as hectic as the eastern seaboard, but not as laid back as areas to the south. It's one of the greenest cities I've ever lived in during the non-winter months. You mentioned the turkey's in your other response. It's always cool to see them, or deer right in the heart of the city. The heavy wooded nature of the city is also an aspect I love. You should already be seeing a big difference at this time. The city is bursting to life again and getting swallowed up by shade from massive old trees.

Also It's a great place for families. The city is more family centric than some other places. Living in the city here is quite a different experience from living in cities like Dallas, or Boston, or L.A.

Yeah there are tons of problems, and nothing here is necessary better than anywhere else, but the variety is great. If I were single and not tied down I'd probably live somewhere else (and I did when I was), but it's really a superb place to raise a family.

[Avalux]

34. Where did you live before Pittsburgh? Maybe this article will give you some perspective.

I have quite strong sentimental feelings for the much maligned city of Pittsburgh. If you had lived there in the 70s and compare now to then, you would be proud at what the city has managed to live through and accomplish. Your description of the landscape/scenery is offensive to me; I happen to think it's quite beautiful and get tears in my eyes when I fly home. Isn't it interesting how people's perceptions differ?

What Pittsburgh Can Teach the Country
A city down on its luck has an optimistic young leader. The scene there mirrors our national situation. Maybe we can all learn something from Luke Ravenstahl.
HOWARD FINEMAN

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19096133/site/newsweek/

[blue neen]

2. Right now I'm in Orlando visiting my parents, and boy do I miss Pittsburgh!

We will be so excited to burst through the tunnels on the way back from the airport and see the beautiful skyline of our city once again.

Yeah, the lack of sunshine can be a problem. We have definitely enjoyed the weather here in FL for the past week. But try coming down here in July. It is absolutely unbearable. You can feel the heat rising from your head.

It's the people I miss the most...the neighborhood friendships. And we sure did miss being in the land of the Steelers for the draft on Saturday! :)

[DoctorMyEyes]

3. That's what I'm talking about! LOL

You are definitely displaying that fierce Pittsburgh loyalty - but, at the same time you're so NICE! The people of Pittsburgh are really it's saving grace, in my opinion. I've been just dumbstruck more than once by unexpected extreme courtesy. If it weren't for the people I think I would have already jumped off one of the hundreds of available rusty Pittsburgh bridges.

Professional sports - especially the Steelers are very loved and celebrated in this town. I have people on my staff that have to be scheduled around Pirates games - I can't wait till football season!

What part of Pittsburgh are you in? We're renting temporarily in Mt. Washington but will be moving to Carrick (hopefully!) in about a month.

[Kopterman]

4. Why do you want to live in Carrick? nt

[DoctorMyEyes]

6. Charming house

Charming old house with a DRY basement on a LEVEL lot with abundant OFF STREET PARKING! :bounce:

[Kopterman]

9. Yes.

There are some very nice old houses in Carrick. My wife lives in one of them. Enormous, circa 1900 with lots of leaded glass. There are some beautiful green, rolling vistas to be seen from her hilltop. It's real pretty up there. I live in the center of the city, so when I go to my wife's house, I feel as if I'm out in the country.

I worry for you, however, that Carrick will make your sense of isolation worse. People live and keep their gardens in Carrick, but outsiders never go there. It has no art galleries or clubs to attract people. It's a pretty provincial, blue collar neighborhood. You'll be forced to talk football with the yinzers. Also, it borders Mt. Oliver which is in sharp decline.

I do hope that things start to look up for you.

[DoctorMyEyes]

10. Thanks for the good thoughts

I think we'll be here for at least 2 years so I'm bound to "adjust" by then. If not there's light at the end of the tunnel by way of another job transfer. I work in the waterfront complex in Homestead and my husband works about a block from Carson Street in Southside so I think we'll still have plenty of opportunities to socialize and take advantage of some of the cultural offerings.

Point taken about Mt Oliver! When we transferred here we didn't know a Mt Washington from a Mt Oliver and it was by sheer luck that we ended up here instead of there. (The moving truck was half loaded when we found out the place we'd rented in Mt. Oliver wouldn't be available when we arrived!)

I'll bet your wife's home is lovely. Maybe we'll be neighbors? The house we're buying doesn't have much of a view and it's a bit of a "fixer-upper" but I really feel like I would be comfortable in it. It'll be a combination project and "oasis". The leaded glass in the built-ins has been replaced with some god-awful 1970's amber plastic that has to go. We're hoping to find some pieces the right size at Construction Junction. It has three art glass windows in good shape, oak floors, and an original bathroom to die for! LOL I'm a big fan of craftsman and praire style architecture and the house is sort of a craftsman/colonial hybrid built in 1920 that just says "home" to us.

[Kopterman]

12. Your New House

...sounds like a beauty. I also like old houses and can certainly dig the Craftsman style. My wife's house is one of those big four bedroom places. She has an enormous stained glass window on the first landing of the staircase and another one, somewhat smaller, on the second. I like to use the servant's staircase. It's so mysterious! It's completely hidden in the wall! You'd never have to bothered by the movements of your employees. There used to be a lot of money in Pittsburgh.

I live in Lawrenceville in an austere 1883 Victorian that I've been fixing up on and off for the past twenty years. I bought it for less than $40,000. It had a bad roof and an antiquated heating system, but I loved the plaster cornices, ceiling roses and black (faux) marble mantles. We just had the tenth annual Art All Night here in Lawrenceville. It's something that I always volunteer for. 10,000 people showed up for this year's event! One guy comes every year from Philadelphia. I also like to volunteer for the house tour. There is also a garden tour in June. Our neighborhood group also puts together events like pub crawls and dances to keep the neighbors acquainted. Some big fun is the annual progressive dinner. All of this effort has done a lot to improve the district. House prices keep going up. I'm meeting a lot of people who have cheerfully moved here from somewhere else.

I don't know why this couldn't happen in Carrick. It's one of our older communities with lots of nice affordable housing and lots of green.

Hang in. I think that Pittsburgh will grow on you. Like a tumor. Benign.

[DoctorMyEyes]

14. LOL!

Hang in. I think that Pittsburgh will grow on you. Like a tumor. Benign.

Well as long as it's begnign!:)

I think the neighborhood we're moving to is going to make all the difference in the world in terms of adjusting to Pittsburgh. The house we're buying is empty and we went by to check on it yesterday evening. It has one of those huge stained glass windows on the first landing of the turned staircase like your wifes house. I worry that it'll be vandalized before we can move in, and I wanted to take another look at the roof that needs to be replaced.

While there I met a little boy (11 going on 12 he says!) who live across the street. My husband talked to him once like a month ago and the kid remembered his name. He asked if we were still trying to buy the house and whether we have any kids. His face showed a little disappointment when he found out our kids were grown, but perked up at the "consolation news" that we have a big dog.

He was so polite, smart as a whip, and I think he may be a one man neighborhood watch! I liked him instantly!

I honestly can't wait to get into this house. I feel happier in that Carrick neighborhood than I have anywhere since we arrived here in February.

[blue neen]

8. We live in Westmoreland County, east of Monroeville.

It's about 35-40 minutes from the city, in a slighly rural area. I love it here.

We came through the Fort Pitt Tunnels tonight at about 7:00 on the way home from the airport. It was a sunny day, thank God, so the view was spectacular! :)

We went into the Team Disney store at Disneyworld yesterday. They carry all kinds of sports jerseys, hats, balls, etc. from professional teams and college teams from all over the country. Guess which team had it's clothing line front and center and also had the most items available. The STEELERS, of course.
We're in Orlando, FL, and the Pittsburgh Steelers clothing dominated the football section of the store!
I though it was pretty neat. The employees said they have a hard time keeping Steeler items in stock.

Naturally, I felt compelled to buy a Ben Roethlisberger jersey. Training camp is just around the corner, you know!

The rusty bridges are a problem, but it seems like no one is trying to do anything about them. The Mon Parking Wharf gets a whole lot more attention. It's like a tragedy if it has to be closed for some reason. LOL!

[DoctorMyEyes]

11. Welcome home, Blue Neen!

Glad you arrived safely on a rare and sunny day! :)

One of my friends at work lives in North Huntingdon and tried to talk us into buying there to avoid city wage taxes! LOL

He's a good guy who thinks he's a Republican, but can't stand Bush and when you talk with him you find that he agrees with liberals/Democrats on nearly every issue. I think he's slowly but surely coming to realize that "republican" is just a label he assigned himself a long time ago but doesn't fit so well.

I'm glad I clicked on this forum - It hadn't even occured to me that I could "connect" with Pittsburgh DUers!


Oh, and about the Steelers gear... a man on the plane told me that he travels a lot and no matter what city he's visiting he can find a "Steelers Bar" where Pittsburgh fans can go to watch the game decked out in their hats and jerseys. Incredible.

[distantearlywarning]

30. I moved here from CO about 4 years ago.

I love it here. Pittsburgh has soul and character. It's the best place I've ever lived. I know that people have a lot of bad things to say about it, and I've never understood that. I've been nothing but happy here, and consider it a second hometown. It's diverse (despite the admittedly provincial attitudes farther out - but I live in the city, so I don't get exposed to those people), great cost of living, terrific architecture, beautiful green spaces, education level is very high in the neighborhoods I live in, a "blue" city, public transportation, friendly people, you name it. It's so far beyond where I used to live (Co. Springs) in every respect it's not even fair to compare them because the Springs looks shabby when you add everything up. But yes, there are a lot of old houses and other old things here, so if you're used to suburban McMansion areas, Pittsburgh probably looks a little bleak. I prefer to call it character, myself. :-)

BTW, I've lived in 6 different states and been all over the world, so I'm not naive about what other places are like. New and shiny looks beautiful on the outside, but is often covering up mediocrity and callousness. In comparison to other places I've been and lived, Pittsburgh is really an underrated city.

And to the person who just moved here and is depressed, I also agree with the person upthread who said that February is the worst month here and to wait a little while until things "green up". Also, maybe you're living in the wrong neighborhood. I have personally found the East End to be liberal, educated, diverse, and decidedly non-provincial.

[westernpenndem]

32. Topography, natural beauty Pittsburgh's treasures

Thanks for pointing out the many pluses of our great city! I don't care if you've been here just four years, you are a Pittsburgher, my friend! I grew up exactly 70 miles from the point, but it was always our "city," our "Manhattan," our pro sports center of the region.

Pittsburgh's greatest assets will always be its striking, wild topography and natural assets--three rivers and so many views of them, giant green hills, cliffs, vivid autumn foliage, etc. Our sleek steel bridges, including the Three Sisters on the Allegheny, the Westinghouse Bridge, and the McKees Rocks Bridge, among scores of others erected when steel was king, are simply magnificent.

We've still got some decent older architecture that gives our city continuity like a European City, that is, if our leaders will be smart enough to keep it in good shape. The many colleges, something like 20 within 70 mile radius, should always keep us on the cutting edge of ideas and keep us from getting too conservative.

My wife and I live in a beautiful old neighborhood full of both kids and grandparents, on a cobblestone street, 15 minutes from the heart of the city and 15 minutes from the exurbs and farms. And there are even a few transplants on our block. It's a great mix of natives and newcomers, the way it should be.

Another asset is Pittsburgh's strong, vibrant neighborhoods, which have bucked the trend of flight from the inner city. Many of them have taken tough hits economically and are in decline, but many are doing very well.

Downsides are definitely too much litter (makes me want to strangle somebody) and lack of plentiful jobs, though there are niches if one pursues them, like I did in my special education job, and like my neighbor (a CMU grad) did in his robotics job. And in some neighborhoods and suburbs newcomers are welcomed, but remain oddly out of place because everyone else has been there for generations (a blessing--see 'strong neighborhoods' above--and a curse).

Don't forget the equally impressive rating that was underreported (Pittsburgh needs to toot its horn more, too!!) two year ago: USAToday Weekend selected the view from atop Mt. Washington at the #2 view in the USA, behind the Grand Canyon. And we don't even have a series of signs directing visitors up to Grandview Avenue! Still, the overlook pads on Grandview are the places in Pgh where you can still hear just about every language being spoken, and no wonder. Only a fool would miss this view!