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It's not easy being a Liberal in Oklahoma

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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 08:18 PM
Original message
It's not easy being a Liberal in Oklahoma
I'm surrounded by brainwashed right wingers at work. I live in a neighborhood full of republicans. So many vehicles have Bush/Cheney and 'W' stickers on them. It sucks.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's not easy being a liberal in North Carolina.
Edited on Sat Jul-16-05 08:20 PM by Hissyspit
Especially near a military base.

Sometimes, Joey, it's not easy being RIGHT about things, period, when everyone else insists you are wrong.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. You've just brought our whole discussion full circle!
:D

Well, I'm not near Lejeune, but I imagine it's pretty bad over there, too.
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joycew Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-03-06 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
79. democrat in midland,tx
this is not easy being a democrat in midland texas where
everyone thinks gwb walks on water, it is terrible, we do
have a hdqt's here and they are more democrats than most
people think here. 
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-05-06 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #79
80. Welcome to DU!
Midland sounds bad too. I had a co-worker send me an e-mail last week saying that God will make sure the republicans maintain the majority in Congress. This place is scary.
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gaia_gardener Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. If you're near OKC
go check out Mayflower UCC - lots of liberals.
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. What is Mayflower UCC?
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gaia_gardener Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. It's a church
a very, very liberal church. Open and affirming. Very much about teaching the love of christ (no fire and brimstone). It helps if you are christian, but even if you aren't, it can be a good church.

It's Robin Meyer's church.
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Unitarian?
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gaia_gardener Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. No,
UCC is Church of Christ - but not the "weird" church of christ. It's not fundamentalist.

Maybe you saw the commercials with bouncers turning away people at the church, but then the other church let them in? That's for UCC.

It is a christian church, but it's not fundy. It's about the liberal message of christ.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-01-06 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #18
78. UCC was formed from a merger of the Congregational Church +
some German heritage churches. The Congregational Church goes back to the MA Bay Colony. (From what I remember hearing, the MA Bay Colony Church later became the Congregational and the Unitarian Church.)

Some history of the UCC--

http://www.ucc.org/aboutus/shortcourse/cong.html
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-05-06 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #78
81. Thanks
Good info Bobbi. What's new in the "city" these days?
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. I saw a "Viva Bush" sticker on a truck the other day. I mean, my god...
"Viva Bush" ???

It wasn't just a "W" sticker, but a VIVA Bush sticker.

Pathetic.
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johannes1984 Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. Bush made me say this
But ever since he got to take charge I'm almost happy to be out of the country most of the time .

Which makes me feel a little guilty en face of you guys .Strength I'ld say , I'm sure it's not easy .nor fair or just i might add , which is made even worse by knowing those responsible for it aren't just ignorant , but evil in intent .

eeuhum , ...i meant to say , good luck
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. That has to be tough.
I would say to mave to Austin, but I am sure you live in OK for a reason.
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. You red, red state
liberals are really out there on the front lines so to speak. It isn't easy living under this regime anywhere but I'm sure it's a lot easier here in NY than we can ever imagine.
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. Just imagine
Most co-workers are hard core republicans. Most people are church going - and the preachers preach right wing propaganda. The local newspapers are right wing. Clear Channel controls the local radio stations. The local TV stations are right wing. Most people here get their TV news from Fox News. It's like living in a real life episode of the Twilight Zone.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. No, not easy at all ...

But being a liberal has never been easy. If it is, you're doing something wrong.

I consider myself lucky. I work with one person who is a bona fide liberal, and that's one more than I've ever had as a co-worker. We bond a great deal, and I suppose that's really the point. One needs like-minded individuals occasionally with whom to share and to vent.

Stay strong. We are out here.

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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. I do have two real Liberal pals at work
But 98 percent of the people I work with and live near are right wing wackos. No wonder Oklahoma is such a backwards state.
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-28-06 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #17
47. They seem to have no sense of adventure mentally
Lacking even in creativity in homes, towns, cities, your lucky to find a store that has a real selection of clothing, men and womens. A friend of mine had a part ownership in a dept. store in Eureka, CA, and we met in Dallas when they went there for market. It was her first and only trip to the Dallas Market as there was very little to choose from. It really surprised her and the other buyers. Tight as- is what I call many in the midwest.

We have a very pretty lake, Hefner, and I have wondered why there isn't more development around it. I figure the likes of the Gaylords had something to do with it. Our race track finally got gambling and that helps in the entertainment area, at least it appears that it is going to be successful. Haven't been there since the change.

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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-28-06 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. I've noticed that too
Most of these right wing Okies seem like they do not pay any attention to what is going on in the world. They read the Daily Oklahoman and the Lawton Constitution, go to their right wing churches, and they keep voting republican. Even when the state was on fire and Bush took about a week and a half to declare a state of emergency, these folks didn't seem to care.
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-28-06 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. I haven't read the Oklahoman in Years!
It's as bad as reading the Free Republic site. Norman is a bit of an oasis, they speak democrat there! OU accounts for that in my opinion, educated minds. Snobbish huh? Barnes and Nobles knows exactly if the book I'm looking for is in, where the books are that I ask for. I live on the South side of the city and there is not one book store other than bible book stores.

Feels good to vent and know others are experiencing the same things.
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-28-06 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Question for you lyonn
What do you think of Bricktown?
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-28-06 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Only been there a few times
It's not bad, the water way seems a bit hoaky. Hopefully in time it will grow some nice foilage. I'm old so going to dinner, etc. doesn't excite me much. That place with all kinds of beer was pretty neat, I'm not that old. Went there after a hockey game with family.

But, my kids and grandkids, etc. seldom go there so what does that say about the benefits? Didn't follow the money trail but had idea many politicians made some $$$ from the sale or purchase of that property. The Liebermans had an old produce place there since I moved here in the 60's.

Have you been there and did you find it intertaining? We have claimer type race horses that tend to loose a lot, ha, but the track was once a real fun place to go until politics took over, prices were out of sight and food wasn't that good. I'm hoping things improve there, the purses are much better for the horsemen now.
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-29-06 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Yes, I've been there
I enjoy Bricktown. I enjoy the Spaghetti Warehouse. My daughter loves to go on the boat rides. You have race horses?
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #52
74. Spaghetti Warehouse has completely went downhill..
We tried to eat there not long ago and it was GROSS. It's just kind of...skanky and weird there now, unfortunately. It used to be REALLY good.
Duckie
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-17-07 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #74
85. I agree
That place used to be good. The food sucks now.
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. I feel for ya. We're just as red.
Surrounded by ignorance here in Nebraska.
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GreyPilgrim Donating Member (140 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. It's not so easy down here in Alabama either.
"W" stickers as far as the eye can see.... Although I did see a "Y - This War" sticker the other day...
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BamaLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. I Know
"W-The President" is more of a status symbol more than a political statement. Honestly, it is.

:puke:
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NEDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
13. It ain't too easy in Nebraska either
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
20. Not easy having repuke Okie relatives, either!!
UGH....exchanged a LOT of emails with a certain branch of the family back pre-Black Tuesday...grrrr. Didn't matter what links/stats I sent them, they still followed him like sheep.
One relative does people's taxes up near Tulsa, she would tell me how people would be bashing chimp when they would come in (April 2004)---that question which asks "do you want to donate a dollar to the prez fund" would always get the locals complaining specifically about chimp...asking "is any of it going to HIM??", she would say "part of it" and they would refuse and then bitch about him.
Not that I expected OK to go blue, but it was encouraging to hear some people up there have NOT drank the kool aid!
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Okie Logic ...

It's Okie Logic, and I hate to say it should not instill encouragement.

My cousin, who lost her job of nearly 20 years about a year ago and is suffering from a chronic spinal problem and is now in danger of losing her house, does little else but complain about how hard it is to get disability and the new bankruptcy restrictions. In the very next breath she speaks of the Shrub as God's gift to America ... that's literally what she says.

In other words, there's no logical Step A to Step B going on here. They won't give their dollar to Shrub because it's tax day, and they're just generally pissed at government generally. He's the head of government, so, for a few moments anyway, they don't like him. I'd bet, however, that nearly every one of those people who complained would vote for him tomorrow.

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rickrok66 Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-05 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Liberal in Lawton
I hear you!

Hi, I work in a buidling with about 60 people in it. I have one liberal friend, I know of another democrat and that's about it.

Every conversation starts with, "You know what we outta do? Is round up all them (insert minority, Muslim, alternative lifestyle) and take'em out and shoot them" or "We outta drop a big H-Bomb on the Middle East".

There is a religious station in Lawton from the Christian Center. I listened in one day and heard words like "Papism and you knew them Jews, they like wholesale"

I also like how everyone tries to prove how patiotic and religious they are by sticking as many Jesus Fish and ribbon magnets on the backs of their SUVs and pick ups.

In two years, when I retire from the Army, I am definitely going back to Pittsburgh.

If you are ever in Lawton, I am the only guy in town with a DU bumpersticker.
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OKDem08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-05 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Liberal in Yukon
anyone else considering moving to an area w/more progressive views? I think urban areas of MO would be a more favorable option w/comparable climate & housing values.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-05 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I work in Yukon ...

I feel your pain, almost literally. A customer saw the bumper stickers on my vehicle the other day and vaguely threatened to rid the world of scum like myself.

As bad as this whole area can be, Yukon simply floors me. I live in a racially integrated area of OKC and at one point worked with fairly liberal people. The customers weren't just overflowing with progressivism, but at least people didn't see the typical "white guy" sitting at his desk and automatically think it was okay for them to tell me the latest gay or racial joke they heard on a regular basis.



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OKDem08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-05 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Hi, Roy
:hi: It's good to know I'm not completely alone.
I had a Kerry/Edwards bumper sticker on my car around election time & received more than just a few bad natured verbal jabs at work because of it. Following the election, a supervisor chose a weekly meeting to extol the virtues of the Republican party & delight w/the election results. I held my tongue but it's becoming more and more difficult to do so.
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
75. Isn't the state rep from Yukon a Republican? (Young)
I know his son. And let's just say if they knew the truth about your state rep, he wouldn't be in office anymore.
Duckie
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #75
76. I work(ed) there ...

I don't vote there.

And I got moved back downtown where I wanted to be eventually, so I don't have to soil myself by being there, thank goodness.

My rep at all levels up except Governor is a Republican too, though, so on that score, it's a wash. It's really weird on the local level how strong Republicans are here. I live on the very edge of a district that has a high, low-income minority population. Of course, most of them don't vote, and the edge on which I live is populated primarily by rednecks and wanna-be upper class people, so it's not really that weird. Just sayin'.

Doing lit drops around here is dangerous, not because of the Republicans, but because of the non-voting population. Had my life threatened and was propositioned by two separate prostitutes the one time I did it here. I hate just giving up on a locale, but my insurance doesn't cover "death by crank dealer."

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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-05 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Hi, back at ya ...

Welcome to DU!!! :hi:

Sorry I didn't respond earlier. With how slow this forum is at times, I often fail to notice replies to things I've said.

Speaking of Jesus Fish, I saw an interesting one the other day while driving down the I-40. It was a Darwin Fish with legs and everything, but in the middle where the word "Darwin" sometimes appears, it had the word "Gefilte." I have no idea exactly what to make of that, but I really wish I'd been able to follow the guy driving the car and ask him about it.

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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. As in Gefilte fish - means car owner was either pointing out
the obvious or is Jewish/Hebrew.
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #22
87. DU bumpersticker
Someone has a little car like a Geo Metro with a DU bumpersticker in OKC. Seems to work near Belle Isle as that is where I always see it. Is it any of you guys?

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Beartracks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
83. Bad Republican > Good Democrat?
What is it with so many Republicans that they can honestly and sincerely hold the belief that a bad Republican is still better than ANY Democrat? Sure it offends their moral sensibilities that their rep has been cheating, lying, stealing, voting against their constituents' best interests, etc. (it certainly offends ours!), but so many would still vote for such a bastard if they could. It's like: "Well, I see Rep. Smith has been running negative ads, supports the Iraq war which I'm beginning to think was a mistake, voted for a pay increase for himself and not for my burger-flipping son, spends more time courting the sympathies of the religious right than my own middle-class concerns, and took money from that crooked lobbyist who's now in jail (damn liberal judges).... but at least Smith's a Republican." Sheesh...
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sazemisery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
23. Liberal in Muskogee
I proudly wear my DU tshirt "My Parents Voted Republican..." because then all the neocons know exactly where I stand. My parents are now grudgingly agreeing that I was right and they were wrong. I will never understand how they reared 3 Liberal Democrats. I have had various bumper stickers removed from my car but I keep a good supply handy.
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Walmartramen Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-10 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #23
86. The old road we have been on? Look where we are now!!
With so much at stake, I need to inform, about our state right now.
"The number of Americans receiving food stamps rose to a
record 41.3 million in June" & the FDA is getting ready for
43 million in 2011.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-09-02/food-stamps...

You also need to know the US budget for food in 2011 is 1%.
If you cut taxes you take money away from those things!
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/node/7245

The republicans want low taxes. Why is that bad.
Poor people don't pay a lot of taxes. It is mostly for the rich.
Food stamps are run by taxes, fed money & if you lower taxes you
take away from the growing people on food stamps & the support to help them.

This road we are on of low pay low taxes put us here.
We have weak foundation that has been on the backs of the poor.
It failed & we do not need to go back to something that failed us!
It's time to change!
http://www.youtube.com/WALMARTRAMEN
http://www.myspace.com/walmartramen
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CAG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-05 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
28. Norman Okie
Where at least a college town atmosphere provides a little sanity.

My family recently changed churches from a Southern Baptist Church, where the pastor was great but much of the congregation were typical brainwashed fundies who think Jesus was a family-values-gingrich republican.
Now we're in a methodist church, and I just got back from a bible study where there is a vietnam era marine and a 40-ish female from a quaker background who both clearly think that the neocons are sending us in the wrong direction. Its so refreshing.
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sepia_steel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-05 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
29. I'm an ex Okie
and aside from the extreme fundie redness, I couldn't stomach the whole mentality there, period.

Strangely, Orange County is ALMOST as bad.
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. From Oklahoma, too, but living in CA right now
Am living in the armpit of CA in the very armpit of the San Joaquin Valley. A lot of * stickers, and a lot of people whose families came here during the depression. I bet it's the same story in Orange County.
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SoonerShankle Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. ditto
Ex-Okie living in SoCal -- LA Beach Cities area.

I had to get away from the buckle of the Bible belt so I could breathe. I don't begrudge people their own beliefs, but I cannot handle being told how to "give it God" by the cashier at the grocery store!

The Tulsa area was much worse than where I grew up in Tecumseh (about 40 miles SE of OKC), but nowadays, I'm not so sure...
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-17-05 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
31. after election discovered my neighbors are democrats and worried about
the country's future and future of their 3 year old grandchild

he said before election someone came through and said of him 'oh, there's that commie'
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flashg Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
33. Liberal Okies need to stronger enclaves
It makes me sad you have to go through it, but happy that people like you are still in Oklahoma! Tulsa and OKC are too big not to have better, more defined liberal enclaves. Cherry Street in Tulsa has been waiting to become this for years and years. Brookside was going to, but it seems like it's going in another direction now. I grew up in Tulsa and OKC, but moved to the pacific nw 8 years ago. I can feel the judging begin when I board the connecting flight back to Tulsa. On the one hand there are things about Oklahoma that will always be dear to me because I grew up there, on the other hand moving away was the best thing ever did. I don't encourage anyone to leave who doesn't want to, someone needs to stay behind to fight the good fight. But to anyone who feels they would be happier in a more liberal place, I say trust your instinct on that one, you probably will.
So many Okies move to Texas, but Missouri would be a better place IMO if you don't want to leave the area because they came so close to being a Kerry state-- if enough disgruntled Okies would have moved there pre-2004, Kerry would have won and the political make-up of Oklahoma would not have been that different. Even a democratic legislature and governor managed to strip gay parents of the rights to their own children, it makes me lose hope. I respect all of you for hanging in there, I really do. But you're definitely not alone.
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deinstein Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-05 04:04 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Midtown Tulsa
I like midtown Tulsa. If you stay south of the BA Expressway and north of 31st you are in a very progressive area in my opinion. But that's the downfall, look how small that area is.

That being said, I'm moving back East next summer. I simply cannot not handle the 2nd most conservative state in the union anymore.
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flashg Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Sort of
I grew up in Tulsa and have never thought of the whole of midtown as liberal but tend to agree with you. However, I was getting at a more specific neighborhood street or block where liberals aren't just mixed in anonymously, but are visible and have venues to chat up strangers without fear of retribution. For its size there aren't many places like that in Tulsa. Utica Sq is more about shopping and being well off than it is about being liberal or politically aware. I wish my dad, who lives in midtown, had a some place he could go to meet liberal women. I know they're there, I heard about a KKK rally a year or so ago, after which a group of Tulsans armed with brooms came to sweep the bad karma off the parking lot where the rally took place. It's an odd side of Tulsa we don't hear much about out of state.

Tulsa is so religious that I think liberal to moderate Christians have had a hard time finding their place and organizing. They're told they're anti-Christ if they're anti-rethug, and as truer followers of Jesus, they tend to be meek and passive. As the state gets more and more right-wing and fundamentalist, with that embarrassing psycho Coburn now Senator, that may change over time. Here's to hope anyway :beer:
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Hi flashg!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
67. South of the BA and North of 31st Street?
Edited on Wed Aug-23-06 04:09 PM by AndyA
Um, at 31st and Yale, that's about the length of 4 cars! :rofl:

Oh Lord, things are even worse than I thought! :rofl:

Seriously, I'm in South Tulsa, and there are a few progressives out there, too, although there is the normal spattering of Bush supporters, which you would expect.

Edit: Sorry, I just noticed how old this thread is. It got bumped to the top of the list today.
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Charleyski Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
37. Its even worse if you are a liberal and have no gods
I live in a small town called Hardesty but it is truly just another Salem. Please spare a few moments to read this.
My name is Chester Francis Smalkowski Jr. I am an American. I was in the military and injured during Para rescue training in the U.S. Air Force. I have an Honorable discharge. I am a Liberal. I have no Gods. I was brought up and schooled to be a Lutheran Minister. I say the Pledge of Allegiance as it was written by Francis Bellamy, a Baptist minister. I accept evolution as the most promising theory to date. I have long hair. I ride a Harley. I love my family very much. My wife Nadia and I have three children, Nicole 15yrs, Czeslaw 11yrs and Bridgett 4yrs.
Our family has no Gods We do not need them. We do not want them. We believe in the Constitution of the United States. We believe that all life is precious and must be treated with respect. We bury our dead and mourn their passing. We laugh. We cry. We stand together as one family and when you harm one of us, you harm us all. You come to fight we fight. You come to share we share. You need help we?re there.

Hardesty has labeled us as devil worshippers. I assure you if we do not believe in bearded white men flying in the heavens with wings we surely do not believe in a black man in the ground with horns and a pointed tail.
The country leads by example said Judge Bridice. We now have a country that shouts if ?You are not with us you are against us!? Is it any wonder that with this manipulative rhetoric that teachers with students present told my daughter Nicole this is a Christian country and if you don?t like it get out! These teachers have since left Hardesty. Teachers watched as students said she was gay because she voted for Kerry, only homosexuals vote for Kerry, we are Christian we vote for Bush. They persecuted my daughter. They called her a half-breed. Made fun of northerners and Yankees. Teachers said they hated her. Having other students follow her around to catch her on the littlest infraction. No teacher ever tried to enlighten these misguided children. Instead the school encouraged more of the same. So those paid to educate our children instead used their position to persecute my daughter. Do you really think the other children benefited being use by teachers in this way? Taught to prejudge and single out those that are different. Hardesty School should be proud. It has never stopped to this day. The school board believes it can do anything. I think not.
School is for teaching not preaching. To supply our children with the tools and knowledge, not the seed of hate and divisiveness. My greatest gift to my children is that of a future of promise of a better and free tomorrow. Not hindered by the shackles of fear.

In Hardesty they teach fear. Just look at the Principal?s son wanting to go get a gun when he saw my daughter. What has he heard at the kitchen table? And the grand inquisitors, the school board so fearful of one child and family?s beliefs that they will do anything and with the help of corrupt police they might get away with it.
Hardesty knows my views and politics. They read my writings. Out here democrat is a dirty word. Liberal is blasphemy. They want to silence me. They call me the Devil.
They vilify. It?s the old labeling, calling someone a witch, devil, and old tom. They scared children into lying and thinking it was okay because it was against the devils daughter. Many in Hardesty know it! Some have come forward to tell the tale only to have their business threatened. Does this sound like a country that prides itself on the teachings of the man of peace? We never learn. We never learn because we are not willing to put the madness to rest. There is much more I could say but time is short and the, give us Barrabus mob want to feed. The republic for which it stands, does not stand out here.

So as to the incidents exactly a year ago? A year ago they remove my daughter from the basketball team because she refused to paticipate in ending cerimonies which was to recite the lords prayer.( this is a fact and confirmed by their lawyers own printed statements) This was a publc school! When I found out the real reasons I relised the principle and outher school employes had lied to my wife and I.So I had a talk with the principle On a saturday night leting him know I was going to sue the school. A fight ensued and I was charged with assault.
I never started a fight in my life and I have had many. I?ve seen them all, bullies, bigots, young bucks and just plane-bored idiots.
But a year ago today, I had a fight out in the street with the pronciple who lied to my family and intentionally harmed my child. he was 350lbs, an ex-Marine.
I weighed 170. It is simple just do the math. Believe what you want or what you need to believe.
I turned myself in within 2 hours of an arrest warrant. Bail was set high at $5000 for a misdemeanor. When I paid it, it was switched to $15,000. A man that turns himself in and owns land is not a flight risk. I am not charged with two charges; the misdemeanor was brought along because of the excessive bail! The Sheriff Benji Fuentes and policeman Guy Cook, who are this mans friend, live within a few doors of each other,have wives and relitives on the school board, never took both sides of the story, though they heard it. If they had it would have stopped right there. Instead they knowingly shaped the evidence to hopefully stop the lawsuit I said I was going to file. They even went so far as to hindering us in obtaining evidence that would prove my innocence and my daughter?s civil suit. That?s our taxpayer dollars at work. Police trying to stop a child from getting her constitutional rights.
Local papers print one side and say they cannot contact me. At best bad reporting at worse an attempt to shape public opinion. People say my phone is tapped and are scared to call me. There was surveillance of my property that violated our and guests privacy. There was a rumor started that I am a drug dealer.
A year later to the day they removes my daughter again from the basketball team for now she says the pledge instead of the lords prayer. The new charges against my daughter are bogus but she was suspended.
It is truly the middle ages out here. I know this must sound like I am making it up but I am not. These people really believe that liberals are the devils tool. That a public school is a place to force religion. That to work there you must be a church goe. Yet they have no problem in hurting my child. How many days must I see her come home with tears in her eyes? As I said before I was brought up to be a minister and I assure you these people do not follow the teachings of the prince of peace. They may say the Lords prayer but I have seen no following of that prayers wisdom out here.
The lawsuit was being concidered before the fight.People have said I am using the civil suit as a tactic. The civil suit against Hardesty school is about an incident that happened before the fight. Well, two more suits against the school are on the way and I plan to hold all those that lied about me or my family held accountable including the police.

I have been told ( by many lawyers)I cannot get a fair trial in Texas county because we do not believe in God and are liberals. That this is the Bible belt and all republican. Everybody?s related to everybody.

This trial is not about a fight it never has been but of a place called Hardesty and a school board with the help of the Sheriffs dept of Texas County that is trying to run a family out of town. The D.A. was willing to drop the charges if I left the county. The charges were switched from a misdemeanor to a felony when I refused. My local lawyer from Guymon was more than compromised and the DA knew it, yet she allowed him to continue until I found out and dropped him. He admitted it himself. As to my new lawyer, time will tell. But I trust no one out here. The control of the church even has lawyers scared to help me.
Remember the Judge in Florida?
Religion and government use fear to control. Fear is the killer of men?s dreams. Fear is king in Hardesty. Many know the real story but they will never say. Police harassed those that have. The police constantly harass my family. I challenged two police harassment bogus tickets, both dismissed. My wife could not pick up my daughter from basketball practice without being pulled over by a Sheriff Matt McCormick, whose stepfather is on the school board. Sheriff Bengi Fuentes has said he is going to put me in jail if he has anything to do about it. He is the investigating Officer. His wife is on the school board. Just what you want in a search for justice.
Clinton Martin, a school board member, calls me outside to fight at the Balko gamein Beaver county.. There are many witnesses. Saying he?s going to kick my f!!!!! a!!. He hides behind the principal and the glaring Hardesty school board continuing to taunt me. Why does he get a Texas county police car escort home from the game? Yet in Beaver county the police told me they cannot understand why Texas county made such a big deal out of it. The Hardesty school board insisted that the Beaver police charge me with something. The Beaver police refused. So what lies did they and the Texus county police dream up? My wife and I are now banished from coming near the school accused of threating children! Yet again I refure you to Beaver copunty police and their investagation found no warrant for any legal action. Therre are many witnesses that confirm my side of this latest incident. The school is in lockdown. The school board is up to their games again. It never ends. It is just another Salem witch trail except there are no witches just us liberals and atiests.
Yet when the principal?s son says he is going to get a gun when he saw my daughter entered the Gym. The Texus county cops say that was because of the disturbance I made but the facts are I never was there yet. There are many witnesses. A child in school says he is going to get a gun but the police say that is okay in Oklahoma. School board member Clinton Martin and Policeman Guy Cook were seen, after a game my daughter refused to pray and instead said the pledge, talking about how to keep us out of the games. They found out other girls at the next game were going to stand with my daughter and say the pledge. Well they figured out a way. More lies. More fear. Can?t you see this harms all? The school board conspires to stop some proud children from saying the Pledge? This is America?

The federal lawsuit scares them.( it goes to trial in May) They must silence my family and me. They do not want their true colors to be shown in the light of the day and in the public. Their civil attorneys needed another incident to cloud the facts. But in the end it will backfire. Big man Martin called me out. We talk some trash. I said bring it on. He started it .I was already leaving. He had no call. Now he has excuses and lies to hide that yellow streak. And a school board that is going to twist it into something else. That?s fine with me.
You want to run me out of town, Clinton Martin? Just get on the mat like you agreed.
They point at the speck in my eye yet there is a telephone pole sticking out of theirs. They condescend my family values? That I stand up for family and myself. Better look at yourselves.
In Hardesty promiscuity is prevalent; drugs are everywhere. Friday night is get drunk or high night for the teenagers. Dating is like anywhere else but without Sex Ed classes being taught, the inevitable happens. The adults are not much better. Adultery is big in Hardesty. So are all kinds of drugs. The police just look the other way or have some themselves. They all go to church on Sunday. What do these ministers preach? Fear? Hate? Stupidity? Surly not the teaching of the man Jesus.
Well my family does not do drugs. My daughter is a good girl. Played football on the Balko Team, The boys respect her. My son is a proud young man. When Clinton Martin was threathening me I was told my son stood by my side. My wife is a proud and beautiful Indian woman. We have been married and faithful for 17 years. We eat at a table every night as a family. My children are my band members. I can?t wait to see my kids after school. I walk up the dirt road to meet them. We are always together. It is just the way it is. We have traveled all over the country. We are a team.

So Hardesty wants to railroad me into jail for five years or more for a Saturday night brawl. Knock yourself out. We all know the real reason.
As to the federal case they robbed my daughter of the freedom to think and speak. They did it willingly and with forethought. And they hid behind badges and guns and the Cross to do it. Her emotional scars will last lifetime.
So blind and brazen in their disregard to the words of the Constitution the Hardesty School admitted their guilt and did it again exactly to the day one year later.

But what ever happens, I win. I?m the father of a good family and the daddy of a great bunch of kids. And the Smalkowski?s stick together because of love and respect. Not fear, not hate, not lies, not self-righteous hypocrisy.We are liberals and we have no Gods.
Can you blame us?


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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Hi Charleyski!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Welcome to DU!!!

I read about you in the Daily Disappointment (Oklahoman).

If you need help or encouragement, this is the place to get it.

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Charleyski Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #40
54. JUST ANOTHER SALEM
Edited on Fri Jul-07-06 05:25 PM by Charleyski
Just Another Salem 

The bailiff took the piece of paper from the foreman of the
jury and handed it to the Judge. He opened the paper and
while staring at it he nodded. The courtroom was silent and
the jury stared straight ahead.
 I have been in many situations where my life or limb were on
the line but I was still in the game and had a hand to play.
But not here, here I just sat waiting for the verdict.

Though I worried about being sent away for five years on
bogus charges, my dread was the Christian mob. They knew I
must be found guilty in order to slow or stop the civil case
being filed in Federal court. Since the start of my
daughter's stand against the public schools disregard for the
law of the land, it was imperative to run us out of the county
to make any civil action non valid. With me in jail for five
years running my family out would be a whole lot easier, or
so they might have thought. 
The courtroom was packed for it is the Bible belt. There was
no love in this courtroom. 
The loving Christians brought their children to hear the
verdict. They brought the town. They brought ministers. I
even saw another Judge in the back of the room. The Judge who
in an earlier hearing while slapping an inch thick stack of
papers on his bench saying with a list of witnesses this big
you had better be a good boy. It was lies then, it was lies
now and the DA knew it! (She was later forced to hand over a
written statement she denied for over a year existed!)
People prayed openly for a conviction. Many holding their
bibles. During the trial the Prosecutions side of the
courtroom was packed. Only my son and Edwin Kagin's wife,
Helen sat behind me, but now there was not enough room in the
whole courtroom.
Yet now the so-called victim, the 325 lbs victim, the ex
Marine, hurrahs, was nowhere to be found. Neither was the
woman assistant district attorney anywhere to be found. 
Whose vindictive, bogus case this was from the start.  

What type of place is this?  Well this is not the place for a
little debate in a coffee shop with the sweet salt air rolling
up from San Francisco bay. This is a place where the children
write on their schoolbooks the south will rise again. This is
a place where they say that black people caused slavery! Where
they burn rock CD's. Mormons are the tools of Satan. That my
daughter is gay cause only homosexuals vote for Kerry and
Christians vote for Bush. Atheists worship Satan! 
Where religious fanaticism is fused with political rhetoric
and political leaders pander to this madness. 
This place has a sickness, a malignant disease and it is
spreading. Edwin saw it first hand.

There has not been many a trial with a Not Guilty verdict in
this county for years. The head DA is good friends with the
self-righteous in the courtroom and greets them all by name.
You know the type.
Many old women in the courtroom are taking notes.  Others
have been taking notes at every hearing for the past year and
a half! They strain to listen not wanting to miss one juicy
word. With the pens and pads they write continuously. The
pads shaking with every push of the pen. Even writing down
what my children spoke amongst themselves.
Blue gray haired old Christian spinsters bitter for wasting
all those fruitful years now just waiting for those pearly
gates. These are truly the wicked. You have seen them before.
With their bogus self-righteousness they strut and sneer. How
far we have not come.
Others had walked out into the hall and warned a police
witness saying that justice must be served, that justice
better be served. The judge called a hearing on the threat.
He warned the crowd that if it happens one more time he would
have no choice but to throw out the case. He was between a
rock and a hard place. He knows my lawyers are watching and
the loving Christians are out for my blood, and they are
watching too.  The law, elections and politics were all in
play. The Judge left the court for his chambers and stayed
away for a quite awhile. 

The Christians, the loving Christians! Praying to a God whose
wings are dripping in the blood of innocent men, woman and
children down through the ages.  Truly hypocrisy is one of
their commandments and the blood of the innocence one of
their sacraments!   
Christian against Christian, Christian against Moslem,
Christian against Mormon. Basically Christian against anyone
or anything that challenges their pathetic little fairy tale.

Go to any Indian reservation and see the lies and broken
promises by a country with "Under God" in their
pledge. 
I assume I need not have to explain about the loving hymns
sung in church on Sunday and beatings of black slaves on
Monday. But on Monday night the good old Master has a little
tippy toe over to slave huts for a little brown sugar. While
the queen of the manor is in the master bedroom past out on
an opium tonic. Praise the Lord!

Well that was then but now the court was about to hear the
verdict. There was a feeding frenzy about to begin with the
dirty little atheist and his family put in their place with
him in jail and the family run out of town. Like the teacher
told my daughter "This is a Christian country and if you
don't like it get out!"
I could hear my heart beat in my ears and I dreaded the
cheers from the righteous mob that were about to begin. 
The pain of having my family being in the front row to
witness this swirling cesspool of hatred come to its
inevitable end with my head on a pike, sucked the air right
out of my lungs. 

It was truly just another Salem. Different time and place.
Same characters with new names. Oh, no gallows or big oak
tree this time. But if they could they surely would. 
How far we have not come. I know, I already said that but do
you really understand what a tragedy it means? The whole
universe is ours if we want it but instead we must gravel in
the dirt having to debate the obvious.

I have been standing against injustice most of my life. It is
my nature. I am a child of the 60's and proud of it. But what
of my poor family? They stood so proud and strong. They are
tougher than I will ever be. I had told them do not cry. Do
not give these bastards any satisfaction. I told my wife if I
see you cry I will surely loose it. I said it is in the
Federal courts we will set things right and send that wall
higher than it has ever been. On the wall behind us was a
painting of the signing of the Declaration.
The judge handed the verdict to the clerk. The only sound was
the paper. The paper in the clerk's hands with the hand
written words that spelled my doom, my family's fate and the
inevitable cheers from the Christian mob.  
With my guts in my throat and no air to breathe. The court
clerk read the decision of the jury.

We the jury find the defendant:
On the charge of Aggravated Assault and Battery:
Not Guilty!
On the charge of Assault and Battery: 
Not Guilty!
On the charge of Assault:
Not Guilty!
On the charge of Battery:
Not Guilty!

Not a word, not a sound. The lynching had been cancelled. 
I took my first free breath in almost two years. I looked at
the jury and mouth the words thank you. I gazed at the floor
as floodgates opened, I dared not move my head that others
might see. Charley don't cry, but free air has its effects.
With all their praying, lies, crooked cops, warning that
justice better be done, packing the courthouse with their
followers, Even a teacher on the jury who had taught at the
Hardesty School. (Our motion to take her off the jury
denied.) Not guilty was still the outcome. The evidence was
obvious. This was a bad case.  And 12 men and women had the
guts.

From the start of this legal fight my lawyers said Atheism
must be kept out. That it was a no go in the Bible belt. I
was just adamant that Atheism be brought in. For it is the
reason. It was the motive for all the lies and hate. I felt
it was about time that this dirty little secret of hate,
persecution, Christian madness and hypocrisy is brought out
into the light of day. When I told my lawyers this they all
gave me the same bewildered stare.
So one by one, I dropped one lawyer then two. Then I had a
hard time in finding another one. My third lawyer was still
trying to convince me to keep my atheism out even up till the
day of the trial. I still said no. Somewhere along the line I
talk to the ACLU out of San Francisco. Who let me know my
first civil lawyer was not telling me the whole story. I was
advised by them and many others to complain to the Bar about
him. 
You see he never told me that the prayer in itself is
illegal. That the schools in this area were not following the
state and federal funding guidelines.  When I asked him after
finding out from the ACLU. He said yes it is against the law.
I told him I want to have it stopped. He told me he would not
for he was a Christian and he believed there should be school
prayer. His statement floored me for it bordered on madness. 
I said what you believe and what you do for a client is two
different things and that you took an oath. He still refused.
It did not matter to him that I had already given him $10,000
dollars. He knows we are not rich. So I wrote a letter to him
to complain about his refusing to take my daughters civil case
where it should have gone from the start. And I asked for my
money back. He sent me a bill for another $5000 saying it was
the charge for reading my letter and wasting his time. 
In my search for a civil attorney it became clear that no one
would touch this case. In all of Oklahoma I could not find an
attorney. My criminal attorney said he would look at it but
only after I paid him his $15000 for the criminal case. He
sent me a letter that the funds for the criminal were coming
too slow and suggested that I seek other counsel for the
civil matter. But even after he got his $15000 he would only
take it if I paid him more. (Now that I have won the criminal
case he wants on the civil. Suffice to say he is off the
civil!)
 
Eventually I contacted the American Atheist, which was
referred to me by Edward Tabash, who was referred to me by a
Mr. Robert Tierman.  I told them my problem in finding an
attorney willing to take church and state case in which the
people are blatantly breaking the law. Yet no one will take
it. American Atheist, being out of another state, could not
refer me to anyone. But they said they would try to help.
The ACLU out of Oklahoma City refused. They sent me some
standard letter. It really hurt  that I did not even rate a
return call or a reason. I felt betrayed, lost and confused.
Was this the United States? Where freedom reigns? 

The whole family was under constant stress. Police trying to
get search warrants to the property by having ex-employees
file false statements. Other cops trying to hire ex-cons to
beat me up. The whole town knows of it! The Sheriff trying to
have my bond pulled by the bail bondsman when there was no
legal way to do it. My kids have been out of school since
November. Principal's son saying should he get a gun when he
sees my daughter and my son. DA has yet to reply to our
concerns. The Department of Human Services comes to my place
saying they received a complaint that I starve my kids. It
was even obvious to them the charge was bogus. 
We have become very good at using back roads. The police
follow us around. Traffic tickets that when challenged were
dropped in court. Not to mention the stares and whispers, the
betrayal from employees, one of my healthy dogs dying. Brush
fires starting up upwind.
An FBI agent even said, "You aren't kidding". When
it was obvious someone followed us and was watching our
meeting out in the middle of nowhere. I was told about a few
things. All I can say is that some of the crooks out here now
charged with crimes wore badges and guns! But he could not
help my family and me. Not without witnesses willing to come
forward. One scared witness left the state. The last words
she spoke to me were, Chuck I don't want to end up dead in a
ditch!
Just what you would expect life to be like out here in the
Bible belt!

The roller coaster of emotions we went through every minute,
every day. It was truly a hell. There were days we spoke
little. Other days we spoke late into the night. You get to a
point you become numb, but it doesn't last.  For it is all
aboard and you are on the roller coaster again.
My poor family. They were standing tall. But they would not
even be in this place if it were not for me and my bright
idea about centralizing our business. We all missed the
desert. The free open Mojave Desert. My family did not ask
for this. They deserved better. I saw them all suffering.
Many a night I would sit in the barn alone with a pint of
scotch and look at the high beams and the rope on the wall. 

Then out of the blue my wife received a call from Ellen
Johnson who said they had a lawyer that can help us, an Edwin
Kagin who is their legal director. Well I called him up, and
our civil case is up and running.
Edwin Kagin also by my request came to my criminal case for
the two cases are obviously interrelated. There were also
other reasons.
                                                     
Simply stated without Edwin Kagin, Ellen Johnson and American
Atheist I would be in jail now, or worse. Without them, we
would have no federal case on separation of church and state.
The only group, the only lawyer that would stand with my
family and me to protect the wall and not cringe at me
wanting to put atheism as part of my defense. 
In Edwin's opening statement American Atheist magazine was
shown. The crowd almost rioted. He explained that Atheism was
not a dirty word and that it was a conclusion. That my family
and I are not devil worshippers. We just have no Gods.
It was the basis of the case. It was the danger. It was the
truth. Yet the only lawyer to go there freely was Edwin
Kagin.

In a world where superstition is the norm and those who seek
another path are ridiculed or worse. Being an atheist takes
guts. Freedom is never freely given. The good fight is always
there.
Oh you can hide yourself in the latest sitcom or have one or
two more scotch and waters but the good fight is still there.
You can run to your malls and buy yourself crazy with credit
card frenzy. But the good fight is still there. You can look
away and deny allegiance. But the good fight is still there.
These are the times that try men's courage. You can debate
till you're blue in the face. It will not change a damn
thing. 
Our forefathers are on our side in this fight. Trust me. From
Adams to Madison to Jefferson and Paine they all knew the
dangers of a Theocracy. They wrote the Constitution to assure
it. And within the federal courts we can protect this nation
from a Theocracy.
The wall between the church and state must stand. But the
wall is being battered and cracks now appear.  The Christians
are at the gate attempting to breach the wall and send us back
down the road to an age of darkness, bloodshed and fear.
My family and myself are willing to stand and fight the good
fight. If we lose some skin, so be it. We have no more else
to give. We are financially done.  Thanks to American
Atheist, Ellen Johnson and Edwin Kagin for the first time we
do not fight alone. 
Please stand together with us and fight the good fight. The
fight that our forefathers began. Lets make the wall so high
between Church and State that they who wish to tear it down
will know better and be content with staying in their
churches.
For freedom has never been free!  
There can be no freedom for all if the wall does not stand.

The wall must stand
Chuck, Nadia, Nicole, Czeslaw and Bridgette Smalkowski 



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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Chuck - you have my undying admiration
Edited on Fri Jul-07-06 09:06 PM by Synnical
For standing for the separation of church and state and also for standing up for atheism. I cannot imagine what you and your family have been through. I'm so glad Edwin and Ellen were able to be of help. We've been talking about you on AAChat! (American Atheists Chat list). :yourock: We're also talking about you here on DU in the Atheists and Agnostic Forum, please join us, won't you?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I'm overwhelmed at your efforts to stand for your rights. You sir, are an American Hero. :patriot:

My best to you and yours. I stand with you.

Cindy in Fort Lauderdale
Member, American Atheists

Edit to add link and correct typo
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neebob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Wow.
That's some story, Chuck - so unbelievable, yet not that hard to imagine. I'm an atheist, too, living in Durango, Colorado. It's almost as if you live in another world, but you're just 500 miles away. I could get in the car right now and be in Hardesty before the sun gets up too far. We get a few tourists from Oklahoma, and I'll be wondering about the people in cars with Okie plates, that's for sure.

I'm really kind of struggling with what to say. Given what you've gone through, congratulations seem inappropriate. Calling it a victory seems inadequate and ironic. I'm very happy that you won, and good luck with your civil case. I hope it makes the national news.
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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-09-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Posted the history in GD
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-09-06 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. You, Sir, are a true hero!
Here in Comanche County, almost everyone is conservative, and it can be a scary place sometimes. It's almost as bad as Hardesty.
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Nicole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #58
61. If you think Comanche County is scary
Then you are hanging out with the wrong crowd. Plenty of liberals in Lawton & the surrounding area.
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. It's not that I hang out with the wrong crowd
It's that I'm surrounded by Bushites at work, where I workout, and my neighborhood is full of them. Please PM me the names and e-mails of some Liberals here and I will contact them! I can tell you that it's NOT the Comanche County Democratic Party, which seems to be the somewhat Liberal wing of the republican party.
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-09-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. May I pass this along?
I'd like to share this with other people if you don't mind. I really admire you and I hope you did a number on the fat ex Marine. Hardesty sounds like something out of the Twilight Zone, but Comanche County isn't much better.
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-09-06 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. Hot Damn Charleyski!! Isn't that a good Okie expression?
I would like to hear more about that jury, there must be some in that town that are thinking people. Have you heard whether the jury has had problems with the towns people? Do you plan to continue living there?

Again, what a win!
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monkeysuncle Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #54
63. Salem
Hi, Chuck.

Holler if ya need help.

-Len
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Dhakala Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #54
65. Whatchoo talkin' about, Willis?
I'm sure there's an important story lost somewhere in the tortuously scribbled screed.
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peanutbrittle Donating Member (605 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. Good lord man
There has got to be a good lawyer who can fight for your rights. The first thought from all of this that comes to my mind is related to what you said about them pulling you or you wife over or following you.. I would get a video camera and a tape recorder and start collecting evidence...if you can afford it even hire a P.I. It sounds as if you are trapped and falling into tunnel vision in the sense that the small town is starting to control your life and you may be losing sense by forgetting that not all of Oklahama operates in this fashion. It's wrong what they are doing to you and your family.

It is good that you have publicly posted and documented this info.

I personally, don't have the resources to tell you who to contact but I'm sure someone here may be in a position to help. Maybe contacting a good OKC lawyer.

In the town I used to live in we had an incident whereas there was an officer harrasing nother officers wife, following her, etc. Once it became public the chief was forced to do something about it and the officer was fired and a full investigation took place.

Again, if it was me I would do everything in my power to start collecting evidence.

Good luck!
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triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
41. Ain't that the frickin' truth...
Unfortunately, Oklahoma is a trend follower in things that count such as voting for the right people for the right reasons and a leader on the wrong things, teen pregnancy, incarceration rates for women, low paying jobs, pawn shops, smoke shops, heart disease. My point is, that even if the national trend is swinging in our favor, and maybe we can get out of Iraqistania, it will be years before the political environs here improves for us.
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peanutbrittle Donating Member (605 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
42. I shot the finger at right wing couple
Edited on Sun Dec-25-05 12:13 PM by peanutbrittle
the other day as passing their crown victoria decked with a W sticker and some other sticker

My old high school friend whom is my boss (it's just he and I that work together in construction)
have daily political debates. Hopefully I am slowly enlightening him. His normal stance is that "everything is just fine" and "had we not taken the stance that we have (militarily in Iraq) we would be speaking Arabic right now" He doesn't believe in global warming. He takes the typical "I'm so sick of the welfare system suckers" and believes in the trickle down economic theory. Stated to me once that he likes keeping employees just on virge of the needed pay scale so they have to show up, i.e. keep them in need. He takes pretty good care of me though, just the two of us now so I personally can't complain & we are old freinds. I told him that is typical "Cheap labor conservative idealogy" I am continually having to rebut his stances on the issues. He knows I'm a MIHOP guy so he knows how deep my beliefs are. He doesn't see a problem with the spying. Fortunately I am able to e-mail him the latest Democratic updates on the issues and he enjoys the debate, thinks of it as "entertainment"
Lately though, it's been tough because I've been to pissed off about the issues that I can't even debate them with him. Sometimes I have to cut it off because I know he and I will never agree and it's almost a waste of energy.

When you think about the demography here it is no surprise though how many are really voting with their wallet (Chesapeake Oil, Oil & Gas industry, the Medical industry, Tinker AFB & Defense) rather than their conscience. Throw in the hardcore fundamentalists and the rednecks and it is easy to see why this is a red state. So many are just apathetic and follow the crowd as well.


Also seems as so many think they are FBI, CIA typical.... maybe because they are! LOL

Okla. is reaping in the benefits and the economy here is strong

Oil, Gas to pump millions to state

http://www.newsok.com/article/1713506/?template=busines...



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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #42
64. I find myself shooting the finger to cars with "W" stickers on them, too.
Edited on Tue Jul-11-06 11:03 AM by AndyA
There aren't as many in Tulsa as there were, but I still see them. I keep thinking they should start disintegrating at some point, they must have been made with the most expensive decal stock and ink.

I have a "Compared to Bush, Nixon wasn't so bad." sticker on my car, and I get a lot of positive feedback from people. I'm about to add the "GOP: Grand OIL Party" to my car, that should get some attention with the price of gas going so high.

Living in Oklahoma is like being in another world. So many evangelicals around, with fish signs on their cars, Victory Christian Center stickers, etc., and they are the worst offenders of obeying laws. They will run red lights, speed, cut you off in traffic, and I guess they think it's OK to do that since they pray once a week and donate to the church.

I'm getting to the point where I let them know I don't appreciate their hypocrisy. I tell them that God is watching, and he knows what they're doing, why they're doing it, and he will remember their actions. That shuts them up most of the time.
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peanutbrittle Donating Member (605 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-25-05 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
44. Effects on OK from the recent Budget Deficit Reduction legislation
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rickrok66 Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-26-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Frustrated and disappointed with Lawton Constitution
Hey, I am disappointed and frustrated with the Lawton Constitution's continuing publication of Ann Coulter's editorial on Monday. I know she is rabid, spews hatred, tells lies, and is insulting, but the recent one takes the cake. In one psychotic rant disguised as an editorial, she manages to call for televised torture, bombing the middle east with daisy gutters, sending liberals to Guantanamo Bay, and makes racist remarks about Arabs and Japanese people.

I understand she has a right to free speech. As much as I don't like her, I would never throw a pie at her like others have or boo her off stage. However, shouldn't newspapers have some kind of journalistic standards? I mean simple stuff like we don't print letters from crazy people, we don't print editorials that threaten other people, or we don't print articles with hate speech or racist remarks. I couldn't find it on the Consitution's website or in the printed version.

In a sane universe, she would have a blog on the internet that no one would read.

If anyone else would write this kind of crap to a newspaper, it would be disgarded or deleted. A rational and prudent person would consider it the workings of an irrational and unbalanced person.

Has anyone ever contacted the Lawton Constitution about this issue or would like to? Outside of being an Army of One, I feel one phone call or letter would be just "noted" by the editorial staff.

Well, at least the Constitution prints Molly Ivins to balance out Walter Williams, Ann Coulter, Pat Buchanan, George Will, and Robert Novak.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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peanutbrittle Donating Member (605 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Here you go...
E-mail them this.....maybe just keep hammering them with things like this once a day....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Stars & Stripes letter: Coulter, O'Reilly and Limbaugh peddle lies


Coulter, others peddle lies

Does Students jeer Coulter during speech (article, Dec. 9, Europe edition; Coulter jeered during speech, Mideast edition) mean that America is getting wise to the wicked witch? No. But its a start.

What people like Ann Coulter, Bill OReilly and Rush Limbaugh are peddling is hatred and lies. Before our dear friend Rush became a celebrity, he was well-known for his racist remarks, now conveniently ignored by the right and the American media. What these thugs preach has nothing to do with what one person said in the (Dec. 9) article: a different view in a respectful environment. If only it was. A view can only exist where there is mutual respect. The extreme right-wing conservative smear campaign has nothing to do with this it makes a mockery of it. But it has so bombarded the airwaves that many people have come to consider this normal and balanced news.

This is not healthy, either for the body politic, or for those who are easily taken in by this kind of rhetoric. In a previous column (We like you, John! We really, really like you! Dec. 5 Stripes), Coulter attempted to smear Rep. John Murtha by questioning his military service. She is questioning Murthas Bronze Star, two Purple Hearts, and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry. Murtha was a Marine colonel and served in Vietnam from 1966 to 1967. She even compares Murtha to George Lincoln Rockwell, a World War II Navy pilot who founded the American Nazi Party.

Contrary to what we are told in the press, its not the liberals, those mythical beings who seem to be everywhere and are bent on the destruction of the United States, who run the military down, but people like Coulter.

Its a pity soldiers dont see this, as one veteran after another is slandered in the press just because he doesnt agree with their particular brand of politics.

Mark L. Warren
Darmstadt, Germany


http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article ...


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daninthemoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #45
69. How about those stupid "Hank" cartoons. Saw one the other day
in which the character says to his wife " if half the things in this 9/11 movie are true, people should be shot" Why do rw assholes always want to kill people, even fellow Americans, as their first response? Why does the Constitution, (what a terrible name for this paper) print this crap?
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Blaine Dixon Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-02-06 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
53. It could be easier on this board also
It could be easier on this board also how many posts do I have to have before I can start my own thread>
I wanted to post the story of our local Democrat club meeting but I can't in its own thread as would be logical..not that our Democratic club is liberal however.
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KKKarl is an idiot Donating Member (662 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
66. In recent polls
of Bush's approval ratings OK was one of 4 states that had a positive approval ratings. This was together with Utah, Idaho & Wyoming. It is really hard being a progressive & living in OK. People out east seem so much more liberated in their thinking.
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. Good point
I had a republican at work tell me that Bush is a great President because he's "such a great Christian". Made me want to gag.
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Pushed To The Left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
70. I met two very passionate anti-Bush people at a Denny's
in Elk City when my dad and I stopped there for breakfast. (We were driving back from Michigan to California!)One of them was a very proud Democrat, and the other was a former Bush supporter who can't stand him now. It felt good to meet some progressive people in a very red state!
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peanutbrittle Donating Member (605 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
71. Oklahoman's deserve another newspaper
Edited on Sun Oct-29-06 07:08 AM by peanutbrittle
I was in NW Arkansas the other day and was very impressed with the selection of newspapers available to the people. Several to choose from with not as much conservative bias. It was refreshing seeing a better selection of reading material to choose from.
Last night I was online reading the Daily Oklahoman RW rag. There is a section called "Feedback" where a question is asked of the readers and you are able to post comments regarding the subject of the question.
The question was: Do you plan to vote Nov. 7th, why or why not? I read through all of the comments of the misinformed. Mostly flag wavers with a tiny amount of substance, tiny amount of liberal and tiny amount of conservative view, but, again, nothing of real substance. Well, I decided to throw in my 2 cents, LOL
It went like this:

Yes....Why? It is time to out the defenders of the cheap labor ideology who have opened the public purse to the corporate interests and who cannot tolerate the thought of helping the people who really need the assistance. You see, destitute people work cheaper, while a harsh police state keeps them suitably terrorized. The ones who are thirsty for a change must get out in vote in massive numbers in order to offset any possibility of manipulation by the Republican controlled voting system.
-----

Apparently, The DOkla'n editors thought this to be just a little bit to realistic and a little bit to intelligent thought for their readers to see. Overnight, they pulled that particular question in the Feedback column.

I also submitted a LTTE last night:

It is not about "cutting and running"

It is about putting the leadership in place whom is
competent enough to bail us out of this mess in Iraq
one way or the other with the least loss of life. We
expected a Texas Governor to be savvy on the issue's
regarding foreign policy? Understand the Muslim
culture and have a game plan that would work? No, he
only listened to the PNAC ideologues and fixed the
intelligence to sell it, that is fact. There are
others who are much more qualified than this
administration to deal with the Middle East arena.
Unfortunately, Americans decided, with a little help
through disenfranchisement and our one party voting
system, that they would trust a Texas Governor and the
K Street project players before they would trust the
other option, the players who actually have balanced
foreign policy and military experience. Now who do you
trust to fix it?

-------


Think they will print it before the election? HA...I would be extremely surprised if they are willing to subject their readers to the facts.
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #71
72. I agree
The newspapers here are pathetic. Right wing all the way.
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peanutbrittle Donating Member (605 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #72
73. Check this out !! LOL
Edited on Sun Oct-29-06 11:20 AM by peanutbrittle
Not really sure anything about the source but....


http://archives.cjr.org/year/99/1/worst.asp

The Worst Newspaper in America
part 1 of 5

by Bruce Selcraig
Selcraig is a former U.S. Senate investigator and staff writer for Sports Illustrated who lives in Austin, Texas. He can be reached at selcraig@ccsi.com

daily oklahomanOne Sunday morning many months ago the Rev. Robin Meyers stood before some five-hundred members of his eclectic flock at Mayflower Congregational Church in Oklahoma City and ruminated about what he might do if he ever won a lottery jackpot. "I said I would give a lot of money to education, children, the homeless, that sort of thing," he recalls. "Then I mentioned that if there were any money left over I would start what this city really needs -- a competing daily newspaper to The Daily Oklahoman . . . Well, everyone just started applauding. The place went wild. And this is not a wild church. Even the Republicans were clapping."

That same Sunday, like every day in Oklahoma City, a group of news-starved citizens ranging between five thousand and ten thousand, depending upon the quality of the football season, bought what many here call the most respected daily newspaper in town -- a paper produced two-hundred miles away, The Dallas Morning News.

"I simply won't subscribe to The Daily Oklahoman. They skew the news," says one of the local defectors, junior college professor Frank Silovsky.

"I'm always encouraging my students to read newspapers," says former Oklahoman city editor Randy Splaingard, a journalism professor at Oklahoma City University, "but I never require that they read the Oklahoman. The Constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishment."

much much more......http://archives.cjr.org/year/99/1/worst.asp
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-31-06 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. The Lawton Constitution is pathetic too n/t
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #71
82. You realize your ltte was full of too much information,
The Editors know their audience and that would only confuse them - what? - bush doesn't really have all the right answers?! Very much Sarcasm
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-19-07 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
84. Wow. Several of my relatives moved to Oklahoma ...
and became Bushbots, after having joined the local Southern Baptist Church. Hubby isn't dealing well with it.

Oklahoma and its culture are a real mystery to me.

Good luck to the Smalkowski family!
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dem3550 Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-11 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
88.  +1
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Wow, its cool that this thread is still going!
But it really does suck to be a Liberal in Oklahoma. These people NEVER stop complaining about President Obama and are blind to what their own republican party wants to do to them.
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SoLongLA Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
90. Liberal in small town Oklahoma
I moved to N.E. Oklahoma almost 3 years ago. I think I may have made a HUGE mistake! I left Southern California after living there for 35 years. Primary reason for the move was to be with the love of my life. Have to admit I like the cost of living out here better than CA.

I live in a town of about 600 people, and would guess that 98% are 'conservative'. I can not have a conversation with anyone. Very sad to be in an area where everything is 'Obama's fault'.

Would really like to talk with others who might have left a large Left Coast city and moved to the midwest. So glad I just found DU site as it seems I am not the only one in this position.
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. I left the northeast coast for OK for the same reason
At work I'm surrounded by conservative evangelicals who hate Obama and all things liberal.
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SoLongLA Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-26-11 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #91
92. Leaving Oklahoma!
I came to Oklahoma a few years ago, convinced that I should get out of California for many reasons. I sold my house in Calfornia in early 2007, right before the prices crashed. Bought a place in N.E. Oklahoma (Osage County) to be with my partner of 6 years who had moved back to his hometown in OK.

I hate it here. Having lived in California for 30+ years, I had never been around people who use the "N Word" to describe our President. I am sure not all Oklahomans are this way, but in my little town people do not like people of color, gays, lesbians, Democrats, PETA, the environment, etc, etc.

This weekend I was offered a job in my native Santa Barbara. Property management position in a senior community, with a house, all utilities paid, salary, benefits, etc. I am leaving November 1st. I will probably take a loss on my house in Oklahoma - I spent too much on upgraded the roof, heat, electric, plumbing, etc. but I will be back among 'my people'.

Oklahoma is a state of great natural beauty, low cost of living and mostly friendly people. Unfortunately it is also the state of Sally Kern, Tom Coburn, Jim Inhofe and Mary Fallin - the negatives outweigh the positives. Perhaps in 30 or 40 years Oklahoma may be tolerant of diversity, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-11 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. Good for you!
The people here are friendly, just very backwards. These folks hate Obama, they don't want healthcare that most of them don't have, they all watch Faux News, they hate Democrats for sure, don't like Gays and LOVE their guns. These people do not believe in keeping church and state separate. I live in S.W. Oklahoma (Comanche County) and its just like you described, SoLongLA. Having said all of that, their are a good number of Liberals in this state. We are just vastly outnumbered by conservatives.
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SoLongLA Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-08-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Changed my mind...staying for now
I turned down the California position and have decided to stay in Oklahoma. I think my problem here is being so isolated from other progressive people. I live in a little town of about 500 people. I do not discuss politics with anyone here. People here love Inhofe, Coburn, Perry, et al. The irony is that most of them are lower income people who have no clue that the Republican party does not care about them, their problems, or their environment. This town has 6 churches, and people here believe whatever their pastor tells them.
I moved here because my partner wanted to move back to his family ranch in 2006. We did the long distance thing for 3 years, and I finally moved out here. I was so fortunate to sell my California house before the prices came crashing down. I bought a house here, paid cash, and remodeled it. I live very simply. I enjoy the lack of traffic and stress, just not the general attitude of people.
Perhaps I am still in a state of cultural shock. I have never lived in a area with so much poverty and ignorance. I wish people here would understand that taxes are not evil, they support the elderly, children, infrastructure, etc. I am going to stay at least 6 more months. I have my home 'quietly for sale', and if a buyer comes along I will take it as a sign that the Universe is gently guiding me back to California. I have just accepted a part time position with two great psychologists, and look forward to working again. Oklahoma really does have alot going for it, and I expect as people get priced out on the east and west coast, more and more people will return to the heartland for the cost of living. Maybe if we get enough Blues to move here, we can change the thinking of the people here.
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