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somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:15 AM
Original message
11-year-old girl shot for playing too close to parked vehicle
http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle...

11 year old girl stable after being shot
11 year old Ivhan'e Merritt is in stable condition, after she was shot by a man over playing too close to his vehicle
Judy Thompson, Newsradio WTAM 1100

(Cleveland) -- Cleveland Police spokesman Sammy Morris says police were called to a home in the 700 block of East 118th Street at 10:42P.M. Friday.

They found 11 year old Ivhan'e Merritt with a gunshot wound to the upper torso. The little girl was then taken to Metro. She's in stable condition.

Police have arrested 55 year old Charles DeBose for the shooting.

Sergeant Morris says the Ivhan'e and another child were playing around DeBose's parked vehicle. He reportedly yelled at them to stop. When they continued, police say, he fired one shot at the children, hitting Ivhan'e in the upper torso...
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. If only she was carrying
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's the last time I'll read one of your insensitive, thoughtless, witless replies
Edited on Sun Jun-12-11 10:24 AM by slackmaster
:nuke:
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Yeah, well this is the kind of shit that happens
when tempers flare in an armed civilization. That you're touchy about it is understandable, it's the NRA's Achilles' heel.
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Avant Guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Guns dont kill people...
...bullets do
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. yup
n/t
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. If you think that pre-teens carrying guns to playtime is a good idea, you have a lot to learn about
the RKBA and basic firearms safety. There are plenty of people in the Guns and Outdoor Life fora who can give you some valuable pointers, if you're interested...
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. You have a lot to learn about sarcasm
Edited on Sun Jun-12-11 10:37 AM by wtmusic
and why allowing every pissed-off idiot to carry a gun in public is insanity. Even though this is a prime example.
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. You're the one with the defective sarcasm chip, not me
And your factual analysis chip seems faulty as well - do you have reason to believe that this guy actually was allowed to carry a gun in public? Or that any RKBA advocate would support his actions?
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Avant Guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. I have been saying this for years
Why do Democratic gun nuts fall for the RW, 'Arm everybody all the time,' madness? Ive owned guns my whole life and NEVER bought into the RW/NRA failed memes. I keep mine locked away when Im not target shooting, which is fairly rare.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Nobody on DU has ever seriously called for or agreed with arming everyone
Your straw man is a weak indictment.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Hallelujah, brother.
I grew up hunting. Ducks, deer, pheasant. I don't own guns anymore but fully support A2. In their mad quest for power the NRA has jumped the shark.

:thumbsup:
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. Only in Flor.....uh, er, Tex.... Nevermind. Strange behavior can happen anywhere. nt
Edited on Sun Jun-12-11 10:22 AM by Obamanaut
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. Proving once again that guns are the answer - and Castle Laws are needed to protect cars from kids
yup
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Are you under the false impression that what this guy did was legal?
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
6. Hey! She threatened to scratch his ride. His was the natural response of any property owner.
:sarcasm:
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. Enjoy your life in prison, idiot.
Hope your vehicle is stolen.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
9. Sub-humans should not be allowed to own dangerous weapons
:nuke:
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
11. Here's to hoping the the shooter goes away for a long time (end of his days).

Best wishes to the little girl.

I know there are many who will see this as prime example of gun culture, but I see it as an example of violent criminal culture.




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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Truly. I hope she recovers smoothly, and this attempted murderer gets
plenty of time to regret it.

I also hope the girl's family sues away his car to pay the medical bills...
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
14. it's a damn shame that some inividuals value their crap over anything.
This guy needs to lose everything he owns over this.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
20. an example of the Castle Law at work . . ..
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. You seem to be seriously misinformed about Castle Doctrine laws
Edited on Sun Jun-12-11 10:55 AM by slackmaster
The use of deadly force described in the OP would not be protected under the Castle Doctrine law of any US state.

For your education, here is a link to Ohio's law, which was passed and signed in 2008:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org//publicfiles/127_SB_184_...
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. not referring to the intent of Casle Laws - just how they play out in real time
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Ridiculous bullcrap with no evidence to back it up
Edited on Sun Jun-12-11 11:10 AM by slackmaster
We've had a strong Castle Doctrine law here in California since the early 1970s. It hasn't caused any harm, and has protected thousands of people from being prosecuted for legitimately protecting themselves.

Charles DuBose won't even attempt to use Ohio's self-defense laws at his trial. I don't know what his problem is, but I doubt that it has anything to do with the idea that people have a right to defend themselves and their loved ones against violent attackers.

I suspect he's a psychopath.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. just "bullcrap" huh . . . . that little girl was not really shot? . . . . The guy was protecting his
vehicle with his gun.

as I said - Castle Law at work.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. your understanding of the castle law as it applies to occupied cars is weak.

There still needs to be a threat or a felonious act in order to justify lethal force. There is no description of that in the story.

This guy was just a violent criminal with a gun.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. False argument on many levels
Edited on Sun Jun-12-11 10:00 PM by slackmaster
No Castle Doctrine law anywhere in the US protects people who use deadly force against someone who commits or threatens to commit minor property damage.

Not even in Texas at night would that be a legitimate exercise of Castle Doctrine. I even gave you a link to the full text of Ohio's Castle Doctrine law, and you obviously haven't even read it.

The law had nothing to do with this incident. This was just a criminal committing a crime.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #20
31. Saying something and making it true are two different things
Edited on Sun Jun-12-11 11:35 AM by WatsonT
You know that right?

What this guy did was illegal and even in the most pro-gun, pro-castle law states he'd go to jail.


That "repeating a lie often enough so it becomes true" only works when the other side isn't allowed to rebut it.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
25.  A preventable tragedy happens to a child and some people here fight over guns
Edited on Sun Jun-12-11 11:12 AM by lunatica
I find that very very sad.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Many people see gun control as a way to make it preventable. nt
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Knowing what we know so far about this story, what gun control would you propose that
would have prevented this tragedy? (So far, all you've contributed here are trite regurgitative attempts at sarcasm...)
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. Not enough details to be specific.
Edited on Sun Jun-12-11 11:43 AM by wtmusic
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. So, nothing? That's kind of what I expected... (nt)
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. No, it's called being truthful.
If you want to jump to conclusions, that's your prerogative.

Conversely, your smug comeback was expected since there's really no NRA answer to the hard statistics at the link.

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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Smug? Hardly. I acknowledged that you suggested nothing - no conclusion
jumping required. If you want to discuss specific proposals that would prevent the tragedy in the OP, without infringing 2A rights, I'm all ears...
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Still waiting on a response to my stats.
Not holding my breath, in case you were concerned. :D
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. What about them? You've yet to make any proposals or specific statements, so what are we
discussing? :shrug:

As I look back through the subthread I see that you made a claim, then declined to support it. You seem to think your table does that for you, but you won't say how. So again, what specifically do you propose, based on the OP or your table, to prevent tragedies like this one?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. I think better access to mental health care MIGHT have prevented this one
But there is no guarantee that Mr. DuBose would have taken advantage of it.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Bulletproof vests for kids is another idea which has not been fully explored. nt
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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
29. Guns keep cars safe from children. t should be harder to get a gun then a licence to drive.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-11 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. In fact it IS harder to get a gun than to get a license to drive
No state denies driver's licenses to convicted felons, or people who have been charged with misdemeanor domestic violence, or who have been adjudicated mentally incompetent, or have been dishonorably discharged from the military. Some states even issue driver's licenses to people who are in the country illegally, and they are prohibited by federal law from buying guns.

You should make at least a small effort to research these things before commenting on them.
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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. So this is where we pretend there i no such thing as a gu show loop hole?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. The same laws that apply everywhere other than gun shows apply at gun shows too
So, there is in fact no loophole.

The term "gun show loophole" is a propaganda term used by people who wish to put all private sales of used firearms under government scrutiny. That's not an unreasonable position, though I disagree with it. I'd just like to see a little more honesty in the language used in the debate.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
44. "11 year old girl stable after being shot"
Edited on Sun Jun-12-11 12:06 PM by XanaDUer
http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle...

The little girl is stable and, so far, alive, thank goodness:

READ MORE:


(Cleveland) -- Cleveland Police spokesman Sammy Morris says police were called to a home in the 700 block of East 118th Street at 10:42P.M. Friday.

They found 11 year old Ivhan'e Merritt with a gunshot wound to the upper torso. The little girl was then taken to Metro. She's in stable condition.

Police have arrested 55 year old Charles DeBose for the shooting.

EDIT TO ADD: He shot her b/c she was playing too close to his car.

:scared:
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Castle Law Lovers take note
yup
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. This has nothing to do with the Castle Doctrine
Castle Doctrine justifies the defense of one's home. It has never applied to shooting a child near a car.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. I think "place" can be a car in some states. I don't know which states, but people can claim
that the car is their "place" and apply the Castle Doctrine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. True, but the defense is from violent attack or intrusion.
Edited on Sun Jun-12-11 01:10 PM by NutmegYankee
And a child playing near a car will never meet that. The shooter is going to jail. Period.
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Obviously.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. Protecting property with deadly force is allowed under the GOP/NRA Castle Doctrine
Edited on Sun Jun-12-11 12:43 PM by jpak
and you can shoot and kill people you "think" trying to break into your neighbor's house and get away with it

yup
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. No, it doesn't. Castle Doctrine laws do not cover property.
All that they say is that if you are in your home or business, you are not required to try and retreat from an attacker first before exercising self-defense. Few rational people could disagree with that.
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Do you actually believe the rubbish you post?
Castle Doctrine allows you to defend against "Violent attack or Intrusion". Texas's laws are broader than the Castle Doctrine, and have nothing to do with this topic. An unarmed 11 year-old playing near a car will not meet the standard in any state.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. In Texas, a man shot and killed two alleged burglars on his neighbor's property and was not charged
thanks to Texas' Castle Law

Castle Law deniers cannot ignore these facts

yup
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Once again - Do you actually believe the rubbish you post?
This case has nothing to do with Texas. And if I recall correctly, Texas has laws that go beyond the Castle Doctrine, making your argument moot.

Shooting a girl playing near a car had nothing to do with the Castle Doctrine. The Castle Doctrine is an obviously good principle, allowing a resident to defend themselves from violent attack in their own home/apt. No reasonable person is going to just let themselves get raped or knifed to death because it wasn't codified into law. It exists to protect that person when they justly and rightfully defend themselves.

yup

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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. The two guys are still dead and the moran that killed them is still free
It is a Castle Law - that's what the law intended - to allow people to use deadly force to protect property....

and get away with it

yup
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Wrong!
Edited on Sun Jun-12-11 07:16 PM by NutmegYankee
Castle Doctrine is for defense of self in one's dwelling, as it is considered the refuge of last resort. "Make my day" or Stand your ground" laws are not part of the Castle Doctrine.

yeppers
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. That is what happened in Texas - and you can look it up
yup
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Do you even read a post before you reply? nt
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. 'She's coming right for us!'


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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. This is the end result of child-hating "Childfree" crap.
He probably thinks kids are "crotch-droppings".
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. You think he wouldn't have been just as willing to shoot an adult
who got too near his "precious" car? I think his problems go well beyond "child-hating" attitudes.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. He sounds like one of those asshole "stay off my lawn, damn kids" types.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #49
59. I am childfree by choice and would never shoot anyone, period
for being on my lawn or near my car.

I think this man has issues far beyond a small social movement. He may have kids. I do think some of this has to do with our my-automobile-is-next-to-God, materialistic society, but that may be a reach, too.
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #44
56. these are the stories that make me continue to support the death penalty
Go ahead and flame me if you want, but (IMO) a 55 year old man who shoots a little girl in the chest for playing to close to his car needs to have his existence ended.



P.S. Sammy Morris should start going by Sam





This Is Sammy Morris




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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #44
61. So this is an Ohio story only?
Edited on Sun Jun-12-11 06:08 PM by johnnie
Why did this get moved?
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #61
66. Gungeoneers don't appreciate bad press.
And nobody wants to see their propaganda, which is why the Admins isolate their 'cause' in the gungeon.

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