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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:01 AM
Original message
Woman walking in NM town, attacked and killed by dogs
Woman mauled to death by pit bulls in New Mexico


SANTA FE, New Mexico | Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:31pm EDT

SANTA FE, New Mexico (Reuters) - A woman has been mauled to death by a pack of four pit bulls in the town of Truth or Consequences, New Mexico, authorities said on Monday.

Margaret Salcedo, 48, was walking alone when the dogs, which had escaped from a fenced yard at a private home, attacked her at an intersection on Sunday afternoon, Truth or Consequences Police Chief Patrick Gallagher said.

A passerby in a car opened his door to intervene, but he stayed in the vehicle when a dog charged him, police said.

"The officer arrived on the scene in less than three minutes, but it must have felt like an eternity to the poor woman being attacked," Gallagher told Reuters.

One of the dogs charged the officer, who shot and injured the animal, police said. All four dogs ran off, and the officer administered first aid to the wounded woman.

<snip>

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/26/us-dog-maulin...
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cosmicone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. All pit bulls should be eliminated and the breed made extinct.
Furthermore, if anyone possesses a pit bull and it kills anyone, the owner should be charged with first degree murder, "malice and aforethought" construed as implied.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Deleted message
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. how do you know these dogs were abused and trained to attack?
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. By their behavior.
They were either trained specifically to do exactly what they did, or they were never trained at all and the owner allowed their natural instincts - the instincts WHICH EVERY DOG POSSESSES - to rule their actions.

Responsible dog owners train their dog, no matter the breed, to live safely in human society. Irresponsible dog owners don't.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
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haele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Sounds like pack behaviour. A pack of two standard poodles and a yellow lab did the same
in Seattle back in the 70's. Individually, these "pit bulls" might not have even thought of doing this to anyone.
The owner(s) of the dogs f'ed up by letting them run loose. Or it was a complete accident.

Haele
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Second this. Pack is the operative word.
They follow the leader. The leader doesn't have to be a bad dog, he (usually) is just following his instincts. Running another creature down and defeating it is in their nature. Pit bulls don't bite and run. They bite, hold on and keep tearing at their prey until they 'win.' When it comes to fences, they are excellent jumpers.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. I'll take a poodle attack anytime as opposed to a pit bull attack
and we both know why
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. .
Girl, 7, Hospitalized After Poodle Attack
http://www.wboc.com/story/10769319/girl-7-hospitalized-...

Poodle kills Chihuahua at park
http://www.sodahead.com/living/poodle-kills-chihuahua-a... /

The fact is any dog is capable of killing a human. Even the small ones. That's why training & socialization is essential.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. are you suggesting a poodle attack and a pit bull attack are equivalant?
Are you trying to do that with a straight face?
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Coming from someone who barely knows what a dog *is*, your confusuion is understandable.
A 60-ld dog is capable of doing just as much damage as any other 60-lb dog.

THE BREED HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!!!

Training & socialization have EVERYTHING to do with it. Understand?

THE BREED HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!!!
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. thank goodness we have jurisdictions and insurance companies
that recognize the danger inherent in this breed.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. You're about 500 times more likely to be killed by a person than a dog.
What breeds of humans are you willing to eliminate?
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. I am more than willing to support a ban on breeds that pose an undue danger
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. So if the Albanian down the street kills his neighbor, we should ban all Albanians?
Even though the great majority of Albanians pose no danger to society whatsoever?

The solution to undue fear is not genocide.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. genocide was not my suggestion - please do not put words in my mouth
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. The question was: "What breeds of humans are you willing to eliminate?"
Answer: "I am more than willing to support a ban on breeds that pose an undue danger."

Again, genocide is not a solution to undue, irrational, ignorant fear. That goes for canines as well as humans.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. so "ban" = "elimination"?????? -------- since when?
Edited on Thu Apr-28-11 06:43 AM by DrDan
"undue, irrational, ignorant fear" - please tell this woman that she need not fear this gentle breed

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/26/us-dog-maulin...

oh, wait . . . .
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Any large dog can do the same. And humans have done much worse.
And humans are much more dangerous than dogs. You haven't answered the question either: Which dangerous breeds of humans do you want to ban from society?

Yes "ban" = "elimination. BSLs passed due to irrational fears force the govt to confiscate banned breeds & destroy them. That's the purpose of such legislation.

BSLs tend to "creep", too. If dog bites are seen to be a problem, the "solution" is to ban (i.e. "kill") the dog breeds which irresponsible media have hyped as the culprits. When that doesn't solve the problem, they go on to the next breed, then the next and the next and the next. BSLs never solve the problem of violent dogs because they don't address the real source of the problem - the people who abuse & train the dogs.

The simple, undeniable and irrefutable fact is the behaviour of one neglected, abused dog is no indication of the future behavior of another unrelated dog who hasen't been abused & neglected. Blaming & killing the second because of the unwanted actions of the first is exactly like blaming all Arabs for 9/11, or blaming all pasty white guys for Oklahoma City. It doesn't solve the problem & it makes no sense.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. the person who penned
"there is no such thing as a dumb question" never visited DU.

I have no intention of addressing that question.

I support "bans" - not "elimination" or "genocide". Please do not put words in my mouth. They are not the same.

These are vicious, dangerous animals. Deny all you like. But that is the case.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. The ban you seek won't solve the problem you're concerned about.
Instead, it will take perfectly gentle & calm family members from loving homes and it will murder them without regard to reason and sanity.

Right now, an animal you have never met & have no experience with - yet characterize out-of-hand as "vicious" and "dangerous" - is trying to get my attention. (She's whining & licking my toes because she wants to get up on the sofa to snuggle with me, but I'm ignoring her.) In your fear-based fantasy world, she's liable to jump up on top of me & rip my throat out at any moment. In experience-based reality, she's more likely to be distracted by a bug crawling by (and fail miserably at killing it).

Pit bulls are more prone to whining & licking toes than they are to ripping throats out.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. you are focussed on your dog's behavior around your family
that has NOTHING to do with how your dog would react toward me - a stranger.

Your anecdotes are cute - but meaningless.

These are vicious animals - ask the woman from the OP.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-28-11 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Kill a million dogs due to the fear of what one might possibly do sometime time the future.
My dog would whine & lick your toes, too - and most Pit Bulls would show similarly innocuous behaviors - right up to the moment you pulled the trigger.

Who's the real vicious animal here?
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-11 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. I pull the trigger - what a load
I will continue to work to ban this breed from our community. Perhaps a bit harder now. The safety of our residents is priority.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-11 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
haele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. Standard poodles are the size of and have the same aggression as Alstasians.
Many police departments use them as guard/attack dogs because they are agile, extremly protective, and when they attack, they are fearless of their surroundings and can't be distracted easily. Their thick coat can also protect them from defensive blows from their prey or someone trying to get them off someone else.
A 70 - 90lb poodle is just as scary as a 45-50 lb pitbull when they attack - and as they attack differently, they do different types of damage at approximatly the same scale of impact to any one person. I'd equally rather not face off with either.

Haele
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Outlaw poodles!!!!
OMG!
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. as do pit bulls that have human contact
I know this first-hand - was accosted by a pair while walking on the opposite side of the road from their house. Thankfully the owner was outside and called them back.

These dogs are horribly dangerous when in pairs or more.
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:31 AM
Original message
Absolutely true.
And sometimes the owner can't call them back. You are lucky the owner called them down before one got a grip on your flesh.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. +1
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. yeesh n/t
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
17. I absolutely agree. That's why they're banned in civilized countries. nt
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. I remember people saying the exact same thing about dobermans
30 years ago. And before that, German shepherds.

The problem is not, and has never been, the dogs. It is the owners and the breeder who breed for aggression.
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Snoutport Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
7. data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67%
of human deaths by canines.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. are presa canarios
pit-bull types?
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. They look like big pit bulls - up to 130 pounds.
Short haird, massive body and head.
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. And I think its always more than one.
Seems like there are always two or more.

We've had several people killed here in Kansas City by both rotts and pits.

I have never figured out why anyone would want to take the risk of owning one of those dogs. Most of them are just fine but if you had one that got loose and attacked and injured someone - or killed a child - your life would be over. You would go to prison. And you would have to spend the rest of your life trying to live with what happened. You would be sued for everything you had now and in the future.

I don't get why anyone would want to take that risk.
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Snoutport Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. link to dog bite deaths and other info
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Let's see, from your link . . .
In all fairness, therefore, it must be noted that:

Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner or handler most often is responsible for making a dog into something dangerous.
An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian that killed the infant (see above).
Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be potentially dangerous. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack.
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. "Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog."
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. Link please.
Preferably from an unbiased scourge - like the CDC maybe?

I won't hold my breath, because such data doesn't exist.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. And the deaths are by twice as many pit bulls as rottweilers.
Pit bulls do the most damaging maulings, too. They're bred for their aggressiveness, which makes them incredibly dangerous. It's like having a mountain lion as a pet.
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. What exactly is a "pit bull-type"?
Any dog with broad shoulders and a big head?

Any dog you deem to look like a "pit"?

How exactly does a dog qualify as "pit bull-type"?

Are you basing that on DNA? Looks? Circumference at the chest?

Or is a "pit bull-type" any dog that someone chooses to call a "pit bull" because they think any big, scary dog must be a "pit bull"?

Pitbull terriers, Staffordshire terriers, and other so-called "Pit bull-type" breeds have consistently scored above average in temperament tests. See: http://www.atts.org/stats1.html

Notice that (for example), out of over 700 pitbull terriers given a standardized temperament test, there was an 86% pass rate. As a comparison, out of over 800 collies tested, there was only a 79.7% pass rate.

For over 1,500 Doberman Pinschers tested, there was a 77.6% pass rate.

Great Danes - 79.6%

Dachsunds (standard smooth-haired) - 68.8%

Cairn Terriers - 73.5%

I think it's appalling that people who consider themselves to be liberal or progressive question everything the media tells them when it comes to elections, terrorism, war, politics, etc. and claim to be perfectly willing to think for themselves toss all that aside to leap abuse on a single breed of dog or even multiple breeds that look similar for whatever reason (such as the inane "pit bull-type" nonsense). How engaging in profiling based on "type" is any different than profiling based on color of skin escapes me.

Little tip: the behavior of a few does not condemn the entirety. That's true whether you're discussing religion, ethnicity, race, or even when you're discussing breed.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. A "Pit Bull" is any dog that bites that can't be identified as another breed.
Edited on Tue Apr-26-11 08:00 PM by baldguy
A dog that bites & runs away is a "Pit Bull". A mixed-breed that bites is a "Pit Bull".

"Pit Bulls" in the news media are identified, not by their blood lines, but by their actions. An aggressive dog is automatically assumed to be a Pit Bull - and the record usually never gets set straight.
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. Bingo.
Well stated.
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