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So WTF is up with MDP's refusal to work on the recall?

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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-11 01:20 AM
Original message
So WTF is up with MDP's refusal to work on the recall?
I saw this: http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/08/michiga...

And have seen in several places Mark Brewer has basically said that the party wants to stay out of this. If there's no legal reasoning for this, why is the MDP ditching Democrats in Michigan?

Anybody have something to clarify this or is the party actually acting against the will of its members?

Rp
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-11 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm not sure the MDP should be - at least right now.
Edited on Sat Aug-13-11 02:10 AM by UrbScotty
I would agree with what this person said on Michigan Liberal:

I think getting the smaller-scale recalls on the ballot SHOULD be grass-roots driven. Party involvement in recall petition-signing efforts sets a dangerous precedent.

However, once say, Kurt Damrow or Paul Scott are on a recall ballot? I think the MDP should put some resources there. Send an organizer or two to coordinate efforts with the local party, local labor and grassroots groups.


Keep in mind how the process works in Michigan versus in Wisconsin: There, after petitions are filed, they move right into having a primary, then a general, election. Here, petition filing is followed by a vote on whether to actually remove the person from office, followed three months later by a primary, followed three months later by a general election.

I would add that, as a dues-paying MDP member, I sure don't want the Party spending scarce resources on things that have a small chance of succeeding. We have plenty of elections to win next November - and our money would be better spent on that. If we had the Koch brothers or the DeVoses on our side, then maybe we could afford it.
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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-11 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. If you think there would be scarce chance that Snyder can be defeated - I say that is a failure
of the party. They should have been highlighting Snyder's monarch like takeover of cities and casting him in a light where it's just a matter of time before he comes for you. If there's even doubt about beating a dictator like this, it's a massive failure of the party and its pathetic attempts to organize.

Next November won't get Snyder out of office. Next November is about re-electing Obama and the status quo so lets waste our resources on him and not stopping Snyder as he rolls over town by town with his anti-democracy EFM plan.

Rp
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Money, media, and stupidity
If you think there would be scarce chance that Snyder can be defeated - I say that is a failure of the party.


Or perhaps it could be that

1. Republicans have the Koch brothers and the DeVoses on their side - which Democrats don't - and
2. The local media, like the national media, isn't exactly balanced.
3. People are stupid.

It's amazing how many people try to blame the party for something when there are clearly other factors like money, media, and stupidity.

Anyone who thinks the MDP leadership isn't doing enough on this or other issues: What should be done instead?

And if you think trying to help the most successful President since FDR win a battleground state is wasteful, then I have to wonder: What isn't wasteful?

Incidentally, a group called Michigan Forward is circulating petitions to place the EFM law on the ballot as a referendum.
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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Well it's clear where we stand just from your statement on Obama
I expect politicians, namely the party and the President to stand up and fight.

Your philosophy is that they should sit back and stay silent, as they have been. Not lift a finger for this cause. And that makes sense since the President whom you consider successful (by very skewed metrics I might add) capitulates, caves and cowers at every turn because he isn't willing to fight for anything.

I am a fighter and I expect my party to do the same.

You are not and are happy with a President and party that stands back and does nothing for them.

Rp
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-11 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Five lies
Edited on Mon Aug-15-11 06:08 AM by UrbScotty
#1 and #2:

"Your philosophy is that they should sit back and stay silent, as they have been."


That is NOT my philosophy, and they have NOT been silent.

#3:

"And that makes sense since the President whom you consider successful (by very skewed metrics I might add) capitulates, caves and cowers at every turn because he isn't willing to fight for anything.


If you clicked the link in the above post, you saw a clip of Maddow (not exactly the president's staunchest supporter) quoting an article from Taegan Goddard on how much the President had accomplished as of last summer - even before a number of other great Obama accomplishments (including the DADT repeal and the demise of bin Laden). You can't do what Obama has done if you capitulate and act like a coward, as many of Obama's critics on the 'left' accuse him of doing.

#4 and #5:

You are not (a fighter) and are happy with a President and party that stands back and does nothing for them.


Well, hopefully this will put to rest any notion that I'm not a fighter ;-)

In all seriousness, I'd reiterate what I said earlier - what Obama has accomplished could not be done with the timidity of which many so-called 'progressive' critics accuse him.

I asked this question in my previous post, and I have yet to see an answer, so here it is once again:

Anyone who thinks the MDP leadership isn't doing enough on this or other issues: What should be done instead?
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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-11 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Actually zero lies. And if we went by your count it doesn't equal 5 either, it's 3.
1. MDP's only non-silence thusfar is saying, we're staying out of it. That does not qualify as non-silence.

2. Maddow, aside from LGBT issues has been the so-called Professional Left's biggest Obama supporter. She hammers Republicans and blames them for everything (easy enough to do) but in general she gives Obama a pass on stuff he doesn't fight hard enough for. I could counter you with a ton of clips of Keith Olbermann, Cenk, Ed Schultz, even Chris Matthews stating the obvious about Obama's will to fight and you'd ignore it. So let's put it this way. You're going to believe no matter how much Obama gives up in every fight, no matter how he caves on Democratic principles before every negotiation even begins, no matter how HE puts SS and Medicare on the table without Republicans even asking for them.. that Obama fights. Sure he does. For Republican economic ideals. I think we should agree to STRONGLY DISAGREE.

3. Back to MDP. Here's what they SHOULD DO.

Use their significant email list and start canvassing and organizing. For this they need little to no money. You send out emails, you update the website and the pathetic attempt at a FB page they have (only 4600 likes and a constant stream of 'why aren't you doing anything to help with the recalls' on the wall says a lot about how worthless Michigan Democrats find their party to be). You get boots on the ground and start helping the smaller groups that are trying in vain to volunteer this effort forward.

Then you do like MoveOn does. You use the same lists to fundraise specifically for this project. All that money will go towards TV ads that will highlight how Rick Snyder wants to take all of your rights away and believes he is a dictator above the rules of Democracy. End the ad with a strong push and information on where to go to sign up for the recall. All of this money is new money. It's not taking away from your coffers currently. It detracts nothing from 2012 fundraising. And you start to use these ads to wither away at Snyder's approval even further making this election even easier for those who want Snyder removed.

You talk with and line up a credible candidate. Hopefully one who isn't entrenched in the corporate faction/third way groups of the Democratic Party and one who believes in the concept of a bottom -up economy. Someone with a track record of fighting for the poor, middle class and jobs. When you get to the point of actually running against Snyder you'll have a candidate who is a night and day contrast.

This is not a hard campaign to run but the MDP is fucking blowing it. Snyder was considered a wannabe monarch just a few months ago. His approval ratings are in the very low 30s. It should be even lower. This is someone the state can rally behind ousting especially when you highlight his EFMs wiping out Democracy and the electoral system for the people put together by the founding fathers. Just bringing up the loss of said rights will create a fire to remove Snyder. Democracy is sacrosanct here.

But the MDP would rather sit on its hands and do nothing. Lets not highlight to the public what Snyder represents with a series of hard hitting ads. Let's not help recall canvassing efforts. Let's do jack shit.

The Chair of the State party needs to resign and the MDP needs new leadership... leadership with courage to step forward now. You rarely ever have a clearer, more vulnerable target than Snyder to work with.

Rp
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