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Royal Oak Rog Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 04:14 PM
Original message
Please don't frequent O'Tooles in Royal Oak
They are lobbying the state legislature to keep smoking in bars in MI. They are literally trying to kill off their bartenders and waitresses as well as their non-smoking customers.

Proposed smoking ban ignites debate

By Karen Smith
MIRROR STAFF WRITER

After working for more than two decades as a bartender at Mr. B's Pub in Royal Oak, Chip Watson of Berkley said he wouldn't mind if the state Legislature bans smoking in bars and restaurants even if it means it'll inconvenience some customers.

"I used to smoke years ago, and I do have asthma," he said.

But Carmen Young of Royal Oak, owner of O'Toole's in Royal Oak, said a ban on smoking in the work place would be government interference. She's president of the Royal Oak Restaurant Association, which is lobbying against the proposed ban.

"These are our livelihoods; we should be able to make those decisions," she said

http://www.hometownlife.com/article/20081207/NEWS18/812...
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks for the heads-up.
It looks like I'll have to go and have a few at O'Tooles. :toast:

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Royal Oak Rog Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Obviously you're a smoker Tahiti
but why should someone trying to make a living have to suck in second hand smoke all day? You smoke when you want to smoke, they have to take it in all the hours they're at work, it's obviously not doing good things to their health. This is a law that will eventually go in to the books, I just hope we're not behind Mississippi before our progressive legislature makes it one.

I've got to go outside or hide to smoke my herb of choice, why shouldn't you give others the right to fresh air to smoke yours?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Deleted message
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. You've obviously never had an asthma attack
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. If folks are so immensely sensitive to such things ...
... then why do I never see anyone wearing a filter mask? After all, the air is FULL of irritants. Pollen, dust, smoke, exhaust fumes, and a PLETHORA of 'threats' to the well-being of people who scream, rant, holler, yell, and fume about tobacco smoke. Again, the rhetoric is overblown.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Some things we have no real control over
Others, such as smoking, we do.
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Royal Oak Rog Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Right, you're not a smoker?
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 04:51 PM by Royal Oak Rog
Hey guess what I attack Bush when he kills innocent people in Iraq, and I attack bars(not owners) when they are complacent in hurting their own employees, it's not even a question unless you're a smoker, a closed minded one at that. It's called the right to boycott an establishment....ad homonym?? Right you're not a smoker? You're not only a smoker you're a ludicrous one.

I'll tell one other thing, you've never worked in a bar. Tobacco Nazi's my eye, you put 20 people in a small room smoking and you tell me the air is not toxic? You're analogy about filter masks outside makes no sense, it's just stupid, it has no comparison to a small or medium sized room full of smokers. You sound like you'd make a good factory owner in China. Oh wait I know, now I'm a melamine Nazi.

Why when some smoker has to go outside to smoke are the rest of the world Nazi's? I'll tell ya why because smokers don't walk, they hardly breath. Why you think it's right to foist your bad habits on the rest of the world and shorten their lives is beyond me, you really need to take a hike litterally....oh I forgot you don't walk do ya?

By the way, why shouldn't I be allowed to play with a ball of mercury while I'm at a bar?..... Oh I know, because playing with mercury would be harmful to myself and others around me. There I go again, now I'm a mercury Nazi.
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shugah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. i'll join ya!
it's damned difficult to find places to smoke these days. adding o'tooles in royal oak to the list.
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. When are you going? I need to head to RO for some things at the Holiday Market.
Christmas party stuff, that I can't get at Meijer, like fancy coffee in single pot bags (I hate coffee, but will make it for guests). I also like their bakery's bread.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. I've never been there, but it looks like a place I might enjoy.
Edited on Wed Dec-10-08 12:29 PM by TahitiNut
The burgers and sandwiches are apparently pretty good ... and I could always drink a glass of wine, or two at the most. I enjoy a place relatively free of tobacco Nazis - they're almost never pleasant to be around, smoke or not.

Maybe they'll stay next to the train tracks and yell at the trains? In the parking garages yelling at the cars?
:rofl: :rofl:


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Royal Oak Rog Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Ya know there's another group of
people that when they are obviously caught red handed injuring others insist on calling the other side Nazi's. This sounds very much like their arguments, Billo starts 8pm followed by Insanity, but I'm sure you're aware of that.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Deleted message
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-08 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
13. I already don't go there.
A few years back I stopped going to any restaurant/bar that allows smoking. There are a couple good breweries in the Warren area that are no smoking, turns out it's possible to have a good beer without rolling around in an airborne ashtray. The employees there seem pretty happy, and those places seem to be doing a good business.
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shugah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. i think that is most clever of you lwfern
the majority of establishments where people gather are now non-smoking and i think that is great and convenient for people who do not like or cannot tolerate smoke. when i go out for a meal or drink, i often find myself in a non-smoking environment. it doesn't bother me.

there are still a few places one can light up indoors and i think that is okay too. i have not noticed any distinct differences in the temperament or happiness levels of employees at smoking or non-smoking businesses.

i think your choice to frequent non-smoking bars/restaurants is logical. it also makes sense to me that smokers will frequent establishments where they can smoke.

i guess i don't see the controversy.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. "temperament or happiness levels of employees"
The issue is the risk of cancer, heart disease and stroke for employees. Not if they are currently feeling jolly.

I don't understand why your post completely dismissed the real on-the-job health dangers and reduced this to whether it's convenient for customers or whether the employees look happy. But if you are able to reduce it to that level, then yes, I imagine the controversy would be difficult to see.
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shugah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-14-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. "The employees there seem pretty happy..."
:shrug:
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
17. I have to go with Tahiti on this one and yes, I smoke.
Ky. passed that legislation, which btw, is THE most hypocritical piece of legislation to come out of that state in a long time. How can you be one of the foremost tobacco capitals in the U.S. and have a ban on smoking in ALL public places and believe me, during the winter months, the bars and restaurants catch hell, financially. So, now smokers have no rights. Wow :(
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Royal Oak Rog Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. You have the right to step outside and
have a cigarette, the one's with no rights are the workers at the establishment who's health is being harmed by your bad habit, regardless of how happy they may seem.

By the way there's some late breaking news on this, it's looking like it may go to a vote.

Source: Detroit Free Press

Lawmakers trying to reach a compromise to ban smoking in public places adjourned until Wednesday, as negotiations continued today.

A House and Senate conference committee met briefly to air out differences between the two chambers. A Senate-approved bill would ban smoking in all public places with no exceptions, while a House version would allow exemptions to the ban for Detroits three casinos, horse race tracks, bingo halls and cigar shops.


Committee chairperson Rep. Brenda Clack, D-Flint, said she believed a deal would be struck in time for the full Legislature to vote on it Thursday. She said the six-member committee would probably meet again Wednesday morning.


Im totally optimistic, Clack said. There was at least in the conversation a willingness to yield some and to reach an agreement, one way or the other. I think there will be an agreement both sides can live with.

http://www.freep.com/article/20081216/NEWS06/81216067
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Deleted message
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Royal Oak Rog Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
21. The Smokescreen Of Lies
Edited on Wed Dec-17-08 03:58 PM by Royal Oak Rog
THE LIE: Non-smokers are intolerant of smokers rights.
THE TRUTH: This is one of the most used misrepresentations of the truth. This is propaganda promoted by the tobacco corporations. Every so-called smokers rights organization is a front created by the tobacco industry. They accumulate names of smokers by offering free cigarettes when smokers send in coupons. The smokers then become part of the bogus membership list of smokers rights advocates. The concept of smokers rights is ludicrous.

http://www.smokefreerevolution.org/content/English/lies...
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-08 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
22. I had no idea such a heated discussion
Edited on Sun Dec-28-08 08:41 PM by JNelson6563
was happening here, about this.

Not that anyone asked or cares, here is my take on it:

I'm of two minds on it. haha No, really. On the one hand I would think this would be a market thing, as in supply and demand. Clearly there are people who want non-smoking establishments and some who want smoking establishments. As is already happening there are both kinds already and this would continue to ebb and flow, likely a consistent increase of non-smoking and decrease in smoking as the trends are going. In the not too distant future there may well be but very few places that allow smoking inside.

On the other hand I don't like that many employees are subjected to smoke involuntarily, risking their health by a choice others make.

I think the smart thing to do would be to go all non-smoking and there will be entrepreneurs who will create comfortable digs outside for smokers.

Julie
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